Huw edwards (2 Viewers)

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Ian1779 said:
No I haven’t - but equally having worked in education for 20 years we don’t wait 12 years to do fuck all when it comes to safeguarding.

As leader of that organisation he failed every victim.

An author who profiled John Smyth and detailed his abuse within the Church of England, says that the Archbishop of Canterbury’s resignation is unlikely to bring about change.

Speaking to BBC News, Andrew Graystone says he worries that Justin Welby’s decision to quit shows the church is “ungovernable”.

Criticising a culture of “cover up and secrecy”, Graystone says that since Welby took up his post in 2013, the archbishop had tried to bring about change around safeguarding.

But, the author says “this hasn’t made a difference”, and advocates for safeguarding in the Church to be placed in the control of an independent body with expertise in the area.

As a result, he suggests that Welby's resignation alone won't be enough to improve the safeguarding culture within the Church."Throwing one archbishop under a bus and replacing them with another isn’t going to change that," he adds.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Nick said:
Completely unrelated to what I said.

It’s not
Show me where it says he knew about the abuse and didn’t report it
In 2013 he became aware as it was reported to the police

Nick · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
No he didn’t
He became aware in 2013 when it was reported to the police let’s not make things up

The 251-page report of the Makin Review concluded that Welby failed to report Smyth to authorities when he was informed of the abuse in August 2013, soon after he became Archbishop of Canterbury. Had he done so, Smyth could have been stopped sooner and many victims could have been spared the abuse, the inquiry found.

In a statement on Tuesday announcing his resignation, Mr Welby repeated his claim that he was informed of the abuse in 2013, but was told at the time that police had already been notified – which later proved not to be the case.

Nick · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s not
Show me where it says he knew about the abuse and didn’t report it
In 2013 he became aware as it was reported to the police

I have.

Welby said he didn’t inform law enforcement agencies about the abuse because he was wrongly told that police were already investigating. Even so, he took responsibility for not ensuring that the allegations were pursued as “energetically” as they should have been.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

It’s very difficult having worked with him and knowing what amazing work he’s done all his career to realise that he needed to resign for not ensuring the police and cps charged the abuser

Or are you and Nick suggesting he must have known as he worked with him previously

Ian1779 · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
An author who profiled John Smyth and detailed his abuse within the Church of England, says that the Archbishop of Canterbury’s resignation is unlikely to bring about change.

Speaking to BBC News, Andrew Graystone says he worries that Justin Welby’s decision to quit shows the church is “ungovernable”.

Criticising a culture of “cover up and secrecy”, Graystone says that since Welby took up his post in 2013, the archbishop had tried to bring about change around safeguarding.

But, the author says “this hasn’t made a difference”, and advocates for safeguarding in the Church to be placed in the control of an independent body with expertise in the area.

As a result, he suggests that Welby's resignation alone won't be enough to improve the safeguarding culture within the Church."Throwing one archbishop under a bus and replacing them with another isn’t going to change that," he adds.

Would OFSTED tolerate it?

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Nick said:
I have.

Which is why he had to resign
I’m pretty sure he wasn’t advised by a man in the street
Should he have checked? Yes and for that he was utterly wrong on this I have no desire to defend that at all

Nick · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s very difficult having worked with him and knowing what amazing work he’s done all his career to realise that he needed to resign for not ensuring the police and cps charged the abuser

Or are you and Nick suggesting he must have known as he worked with him previously

No, he didn't report it. Nothing to do with being charged.

Ian1779 · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s very difficult having worked with him and knowing what amazing work he’s done all his career.

What a guy

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Ian1779 said:
No I haven’t - but equally having worked in education for 20 years we don’t wait 12 years to do fuck all when it comes to safeguarding.

As leader of that organisation he failed every victim.

Yeah I think that’s true and why he has to resign. I think you and others think rightly or wrongly there’s some ulterior motive for him not ensuring the information he received was true or not and it would have been so easy for him to have done so
I can’t begin to imagine the responsibility and pressure in the role and how everything that needs doing is more than the numbers of hours available
Safeguarding is a shit show and it sounds like you have dealt with this professionally as have I on many occasions and it’s always a shit show

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Nick said:
No, he didn't report it. Nothing to do with being charged.

You think that’s because he genuinely believed the police had been told or was trying to keeep things quiet? And if you don’t think it matters it does
Incompetent and resignable but doesn’t mean the rest of his life is shit

Nick · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Safeguarding is a shit show and it sounds like you have dealt with this professionally as have I on many occasions and it’s always a shit show

It is if you don't report nonces.

Nick · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
You think that’s because he genuinely believed the police had been told or was trying to keeep things quiet? And if you don’t think it matters it does
Incompetent and resignable but doesn’t mean the rest of his life is shit

Never said anything about the rest of his life.

I said him not reporting it meant possibly that more kids were abused.

It's another millionaire who will just retire and live a comfortable life.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Ian1779 said:
What a guy

View attachment 39468

Fair enough he’s just shit and has no redeeming feature or legacy to be proud of ffs

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Nick said:
Never said anything about the rest of his life.

I said him not reporting it meant possibly that more kids were abused.

Is that what the report says? Sorry just read your quote I’ll go and read it

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Nick said:
It is if you don't report nonces.

No it is even when you report it

Ian1779 · Nov 12, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Yeah I think that’s true and why he has to resign. I think you and others think rightly or wrongly there’s some ulterior motive for him not ensuring the information he received was true or not and it would have been so easy for him to have done so
I can’t begin to imagine the responsibility and pressure in the role and how everything that needs doing is more than the numbers of hours available
Safeguarding is a shit show and it sounds like you have dealt with this professionally as have I on many occasions and it’s always a shit show

I’m not suggesting he is involved in abuse if that’s what you are asking.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Page 239 of the report seems to deal with this point. I think it’s fair that most of the blame is the police but everyone should have done more

it certainly isn’t the case that he knew information to report to the police and would have expected the safeguarding lead for Ely to deal with the matter properly

There are other bits though with taking years to meet with victims

It’s fine I will not discount the good he has done because of this. He should have resigned when the report came out though without needing to be pushed

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Ian1779 said:
I’m not suggesting he is involved in abuse if that’s what you are asking.

No just whether he witnessed it
And therefore had something to report
He should have been able to trust Ely safeguarding lead and police to properly investigate the allegations and he should bloody well have put his name and position behind ensuring it was done

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 12, 2024

Sorry both !

The abuse is awful and everyone involved needs to look hard at themselves about what they should have done to see Smyth brought to justice before he died

Ian1779 · Nov 12, 2024

rob9872 · Nov 12, 2024

Sorry to join the pile on Pete, not my way normally, but you're being blinded by knowing him and sharing faith and beliefs. You can't say 'yeah but look at all the good stuff he did'. I'm not comparing him directly to Saville, but equally, you could argue he raised millions for great causes. If it wasn't Welby, you'd see it in a different light.

Otis · Nov 13, 2024

Ian1779 said:

Hang on. Hmmm....

Hard to trust anything these days.

Just did a little digging and that post is rather disingenuous.

The photo was from May 2017. That's when Welby flew out to meet him.

Puts a different slant on it doesn't it. Just putting that photo up now, looks like them met now or very recently and that's obviously what was implied.

Not that I approve of their meeting anyway, but let's get the facts straight.

Otis · Nov 13, 2024

Have to bloody check everything these days don't you. Grrr.

Strawberry Fields Forever just keeps swimming round my head lately.

"Nothing is real."

It's tiresome and rather dangerous.

Ian1779 · Nov 13, 2024

Otis said:
Hang on. Hmmm....

Hard to trust anything these days.

Just did a little digging and that post is rather disingenuous.

View attachment 39482

The photo was from May 2017. That's when Welby flew out to meet him.

Puts a different slant on it doesn't it. Just putting that photo up now, looks like them met now or very recently and that's obviously what was implied.

Not that I approve of their meeting anyway, but let's get the facts straight.

My point is about the company he keeps. I take your point about the date, but Netanyahu has consistently been a murderous scumbag since rising to power, he didn’t start last year.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 13, 2024

Ian1779 said:
My point is about the company he keeps. I take your point about the date, but Netanyahu has consistently been a murderous scumbag since rising to power, he didn’t start last year.

How do you build lasting peace unless you talk to scum bags?

The world isn’t perfect neither are we

shmmeee · Nov 13, 2024

Ian1779 said:
My point is about the company he keeps. I take your point about the date, but Netanyahu has consistently been a murderous scumbag since rising to power, he didn’t start last year.

He’s the leader of a major nation. Having a picture with him isn’t proof of anything. This is like people finding Jimmy Saville pictures.

Otis · Nov 13, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
How do you build lasting peace unless you talk to scum bags?

The world isn’t perfect neither are we

So very true, Pete.

You have to talk to these people.

rob9872 · Nov 15, 2024

To join up the posts on this thread ...

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 15, 2024

rob9872 said:
To join up the posts on this thread ...

New Archbishop of Canterbury

A friend posted this on my timeline!! My vicar and church friends weren’t pleased

MalcSB · Nov 20, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
Sorry both !

The abuse is awful and everyone involved needs to look hard at themselves about what they should have done to see Smyth brought to justice before he died

I suppose in your world Smyth will have been punished post mortem by God. Assuming he didn’t repent all his sins in his deathbed that is.

Huw edwards (2 Viewers)

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