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How do you solve a problem like Ben Sheaf (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Bigelvesy
  • Start date Jan 9, 2025
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #36
Cally Fedora said:
Look at our squad. Why on earth would we want to get rid of Sheaf? It’s utterly insane.
Click to expand...
Because he's only fit for about 70% of the average season
 
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wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #37
Adge said:
Keep Sheaf and get rid of Eccles.
Click to expand...
May happen.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #38
He is probably one of the most overrated players I have seen play for us for a very long time, and the talk of him being underrated on here almost has me lost for words. It's frustrating because I really want to like him, he has some good attributes, but there is such a mismatch between what some of our fans think he is worth, and what he actually is. If he was that good and sought-after, he would have been gone in the summer. The interest clearly wasn't there.

People harp on about how good he has been for the last two seasons, and how instrumental he has been for us, but this is largely a myth. His three periods of prolonged absence across the 22/23 and 23/24 seasons correspond with our best turns of form in both campaigns, including our playoff drive in the former. When he's returned on a couple of occasions, our form has dropped off a cliff.

There is also this notion that somehow this season he is so much worse than previous years, some people are blaming an injury. Again, the online stats don't suggest he's performing much differently. He is only rated slightly lower across this season compared to the others. So, why is it? It looks great when you see his tackles and pass percentage rates. He has some great attributes. When you look closer though, the frustrations become clearer. He's got a lot of limitations which are exposed, especially when we are in a bigger slump. I don't believe he is playing significantly worse than previously, I've think more people are tuning into these limitations and they don't know how to explain it.

One of the biggest problems we have at the moment is the absence of good leaders. We should get whatever we can for him if anyone is willing to bid, and move on so we can bring those in. I will die on this unpopular hill, and I know I am in a minority with this view, but I think we will move forward better as a club without him.
 
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #39
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
He is probably one of the most overrated players I have seen play for us for a very long time, and the talk of him being underrated on here almost has me lost for words. It's frustrating because I really want to like him, he has some good attributes, but there is such a mismatch between what some of our fans think he is worth, and what he actually is. If he was that good and sought-after, he would have been gone in the summer. The interest clearly wasn't there.

People harp on about how good he has been for the last two seasons, and how instrumental he has been for us, but this is largely a myth. His three periods of prolonged absence across the 22/23 and 23/24 seasons correspond with our best turns of form in both campaigns, including our playoff drive in the former. When he's returned on a couple of occasions, our form has dropped off a cliff.

There is also this notion that somehow this season he is so much worse than previous years, some people are blaming an injury. Again, the online stats don't suggest he's performing much differently. He is only rated slightly lower across this season compared to the others. So, why is it? It looks great when you see his tackles and pass percentage rates. He has some great attributes. When you look closer though, the frustrations become clearer. He's got a lot of limitations which are exposed, especially when we are in a bigger slump. I don't believe he is playing significantly worse than previously, I've think more people are tuning into these limitations and they don't know how to explain it.

One of the biggest problems we have at the moment is the absence of good leaders. We should get whatever we can for him if anyone is willing to bid, and move on so we can bring those in. I will die on this unpopular hill, and I know I am in a minority with this view, but I think we will move forward better as a club without him.
Click to expand...
He's a good player and all of his stats bear this out. Your campaign against him is as irrational as the one you had against Jacob Murphy which showed real prescience on your part. I'm coming round to your view though purely on the basis of his injury record.
 
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Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #40
fernandopartridge said:
He's a good player and all of his stats bear this out. Your campaign against him is as irrational as the one you had against Jacob Murphy which showed real prescience on your part. I'm coming round to your view though purely on the basis of his injury record.
Click to expand...

I don't have any campaign. I want the player to do well, but I have a view on him and I have stuck to it despite getting pounders on here, which admittedly are becoming more infrequent now.

Injury or no injury, I've provided some detail here on why I have the view that I have, if you disagree with me please feel free to offer some counter points for the debate. It's just pointless having a go otherwise.
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #41
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
He is probably one of the most overrated players I have seen play for us for a very long time, and the talk of him being underrated on here almost has me lost for words. It's frustrating because I really want to like him, he has some good attributes, but there is such a mismatch between what some of our fans think he is worth, and what he actually is. If he was that good and sought-after, he would have been gone in the summer. The interest clearly wasn't there.

People harp on about how good he has been for the last two seasons, and how instrumental he has been for us, but this is largely a myth. His three periods of prolonged absence across the 22/23 and 23/24 seasons correspond with our best turns of form in both campaigns, including our playoff drive in the former. When he's returned on a couple of occasions, our form has dropped off a cliff.

There is also this notion that somehow this season he is so much worse than previous years, some people are blaming an injury. Again, the online stats don't suggest he's performing much differently. He is only rated slightly lower across this season compared to the others. So, why is it? It looks great when you see his tackles and pass percentage rates. He has some great attributes. When you look closer though, the frustrations become clearer. He's got a lot of limitations which are exposed, especially when we are in a bigger slump. I don't believe he is playing significantly worse than previously, I've think more people are tuning into these limitations and they don't know how to explain it.

One of the biggest problems we have at the moment is the absence of good leaders. We should get whatever we can for him if anyone is willing to bid, and move on so we can bring those in. I will die on this unpopular hill, and I know I am in a minority with this view, but I think we will move forward better as a club without him.
Click to expand...
I really rate Sheaf. I understand why he's come under some flak recently (I think it's fitness related personally).

Who's been saying he's underrated though?

Haven't seen that on here although I may be wrong.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #42
JAM See said:
I really rate Sheaf, understand why he's come under some flak recently (I think it's fitness related personally).
Who's been saying he's underrated though?

Haven't seen that on here although I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

That's fair enough.

There's been a few people. Either a few pages back, or on the transfer thread. I was quite surprised. In my experience he's been very highly regarded.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2025
  • #43
The numbers don't lie and we're much worse without him.

That said, he does have flaws and limitations and with his injury record I'm not against him going, but certainly not before we've bought in other midfielders because we are woefully short.

Surely even those who don't rate him can't think midfield combinations that we currently have available are an improvement on him being around.

We've also not yet replaced adequately Hamer, O'Hare or even Palmer, so the thought of losing Sheaf too worries the hell out of me.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #44
fernandopartridge said:
Hasn't looked fit since he came back in and you wonder whether his new injury is a consequence of that
Click to expand...
It was the same as last season where he was overworked and subsequently injured. We needed more cover for that area before we’d kicked a ball this season.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #45
fernandopartridge said:
Because he's only fit for about 70% of the average season
Click to expand...
I don’t think he misses 20-30% of a season if his minutes are limited to 60-70m per game. Look at a player like Martinelli at Arsenal who they get a lot more mileage out of when they manage his minutes.

Last season, Shesf averaged about 83m a game when played. Playing nearly 90m for 50-odd games a season takes a durable player and Sheaf isn’t a 90 minute, 50 game a season player, his body does break down quite easily.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #46
It also can't be a coincidence that people are criticising Milan. You don't suddenly become a bad player. In the modern game you need rotation, not just games out but within game and these two have no adequate cover so play longer and then are criticised for not hitting their own high standards. Almost a victim of their own ability.
 
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Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #47
JAM See said:
Never mind all this football bollocks @Senior Vick from Alicante

I'm over there for a week in the middle of February, any tips?
Click to expand...
Calle San Francisco is where we end up but Alicante is down the cost from where we go. Its a street full of every kind of bar and the tapas is great, its not the cheapest but the food is great and the measures are large. Dead easy to find and its full of giant mushroom, not the smoking variety. Love the old town as well which is below the castle if you want to people watch and get a bit of the real Spain, foods not expensive around there either. If you want to be energetic you can walk up the castle but there is a lift you can use if you walk along the front opposite the beach. Great place to visit really underrated place.
 
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Bigelvesy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #48
rob9872 said:
It also can't be a coincidence that people are criticising Milan. You don't suddenly become a bad player. In the modern game you need rotation, not just games out but within game and these two have no adequate cover so play longer and then are criticised for not hitting their own high standards. Almost a victim of their own ability.
Click to expand...
100% this.
These are professional athletes right?

You dont expect a 10,000m runner to run the same
time or PB 46+ times a year. Both players suffering so much from fatigue, injury and lack of confidence because of it.
 
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wince

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #49
Bigelvesy said:
100% this.
These are professional athletes right?

You dont expect a 10,000m runner to run the same
time or PB 46+ times a year. Both players suffering so much from fatigue, injury and lack of confidence because of it.
Click to expand...
Add in the quality around them has diminished , Means they are Asked to do more ,
 

Major Tom

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #50
Out for 6 weeks .. he's got a really issue with a calf weakness there .. possibly never healed properly
 
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D

DrPoolittle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #51
Major Tom said:
Out for 6 weeks .. he's got a really issue with a calf weakness there .. possibly never healed properly
Click to expand...

Get fit soon, Sheaf.

We can’t afford weakness in midfield and sadly, now there is a risk he will be sold for a cut-price in the summer, to stop him running his contract down.

I think it unlikely he will sign a new contract
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #52
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
He is probably one of the most overrated players I have seen play for us for a very long time, and the talk of him being underrated on here almost has me lost for words. It's frustrating because I really want to like him, he has some good attributes, but there is such a mismatch between what some of our fans think he is worth, and what he actually is. If he was that good and sought-after, he would have been gone in the summer. The interest clearly wasn't there.
Click to expand...
I find you a bit deranged(!) on this topic tbh but when people were saying he could play for England that was enough for me to question reality
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #53
Mucca Mad Boys said:
I don’t think he misses 20-30% of a season if his minutes are limited to 60-70m per game. Look at a player like Martinelli at Arsenal who they get a lot more mileage out of when they manage his minutes.

Last season, Shesf averaged about 83m a game when played. Playing nearly 90m for 50-odd games a season takes a durable player and Sheaf isn’t a 90 minute, 50 game a season player, his body does break down quite easily.
Click to expand...

Ah yes. "The best midfielder in the Championship". We can't play him too much as he's not up to it...
 
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Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #54
torchomatic said:
Ah yes. "The best midfielder in the Championship". We can't play him too much as he's not up to it...
Click to expand...
That’s an unfair characterisation. Some players just need their minutes managed more than others.

If you have a player that gets injured quite often, it’s just common sense you mitigate the risk. As it happens, Sheaf has one of the highest minutes per game whenever he plays.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #55
Sheaf is a really good player in the championship but he's never been comfortable being the leader or the main man. He's best at being a good supporting act to the main act
We've tried to force him into a role he's not comfortable in the last 18 months and it's backfired.
 
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rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #56
Tbf you shouldn't need the armband on the pitch to step up and lead, others can join in, but he might also be less comfortable with other off pitch stuff like organising tickets, collecting fines, speaking to the manager, organising team events etc
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #57
SlowerThanPlatt said:
I find you a bit deranged(!) on this topic tbh but when people were saying he could play for England that was enough for me to question reality
Click to expand...

Well, that's fair enough - I've swallowed the pantomime villain on this subject. The problem is, I get a lot of insults, but very few counter arguments or anything that's worthy of a debate. I think it says a lot.

I haven't heard the playing for England one before, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest!
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2025
  • #58
SlowerThanPlatt said:
I find you a bit deranged(!) on this topic tbh but when people were saying he could play for England that was enough for me to question reality
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anyone say he could play for England, that's bonkers.
 
T

The watchmaker

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #59
stupot07 said:
I haven't seen anyone say he could play for England, that's bonkers.
Click to expand...
I've never heard a Coventry City fan say it but I have heard it from YouTubers.
 

Diogenes

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #60
The watchmaker said:
I've never heard a Coventry City fan say it but I have heard it from YouTubers.
Click to expand...

Sheaf himself said in the program notes for Man U game last season that he has ambitions to play for England.
 
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #61
Diogenes said:
Sheaf himself said in the program notes for Man U game last season that he has ambitions to play for England.
Click to expand...

Same
 
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Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #62
Diogenes said:
Sheaf himself said in the program notes for Man U game last season that he has ambitions to play for England.
Click to expand...
There’s nothing wrong with being ambitious, I’m pretty certain Kalvin Phillips was a Championship player around Sheaf’s age.

I just wouldn’t bet on that outcome. Establish Premier league player one day, sure.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #63
Mucca Mad Boys said:
That’s an unfair characterisation. Some players just need their minutes managed more than others.

If you have a player that gets injured quite often, it’s just common sense you mitigate the risk. As it happens, Sheaf has one of the highest minutes per game whenever he plays.
Click to expand...

No, it's not an unfair assessment. Lost count of the amount of times I've read on here that he's our best player or the best midfielder in the champ or worth £20M.

I don't think he's any of those, but it doesn't matter what I think. What matters is he misses a third of games every season and we can't have a player that has that kind of record. If we had a plethora of players that could slot into his place then it wouldn't be so bad, but we haven't.

It's hardly a secret we are short in midfield yet we have some who think it's fine he misses loads of games as that's what he's always done.

"We need to manage his minutes". LOL, he's not 36!

It's not good enough.
 
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fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #64
SlowerThanPlatt said:
I find you a bit deranged(!) on this topic tbh but when people were saying he could play for England that was enough for me to question reality
Click to expand...
What???? Who said he could play for England???

He's a good championship level player, who looked at his best with decent players around him that looked to break quickly with pace and movement. (Hamer and O'hare for example) put him in a midfield of Eccles and Torp and he looks bang average.
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #65
Mucca Mad Boys said:
There’s nothing wrong with being ambitious, I’m pretty certain Kalvin Phillips was a Championship player around Sheaf’s age.

I just wouldn’t bet on that outcome. Establish Premier league player one day, sure.
Click to expand...

I don’t see him as an established premier league player. He’s 27 next month and not really making much impression this season
 
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SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #66
fatso said:
What???? Who said he could play for England???
Click to expand...

It was a thing during the FA Cup run


Jim Brown!
 
Reactions: The watchmaker

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #67
SlowerThanPlatt said:
It was a thing during the FA Cup run


Jim Brown!
Click to expand...
What a knob head Jim Brown is
Rediculous.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #68
fatso said:
What a knob head Jim Brown is
Rediculous.
Click to expand...
Just caught up in the emotion of our cup run. Misguided comment but definitely not a knob and loves the City.
 
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JSL

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #69
There's an even bigger problem now hhe's injured
 
Last edited: Jan 11, 2025

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 11, 2025
  • #70
fatso said:
What a knob head Jim Brown is
Rediculous.
Click to expand...

We should all go and redicule him
 
Reactions: ovduk78 and The watchmaker
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