AStonesThrow
Well-Known Member
Which in turn is discrimination and singling people out. I completely get your sentiment but it could be argued that'd make you as bad as them
Which in turn is discrimination and singling people out. I completely get your sentiment but it could be argued that'd make you as bad as themI'd say let's employ some creativity that could easily catch on quickly up & down the land.
Ideas for an unaggressive song that can be aimed by the rest of fans to drown out these morons as everyone points & sings the put-down.
Something like..."You're the shit, you're the shit, you're the shit of Coventry...YOU'RE the shit of Coventry".
Embarrass them back into line!
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Which in turn is discrimination and singling people out. I completely get your sentiment but it could be argued that'd make you as bad as them
No that's completely not the point I was making. It's just a case of fight fire with fire. As I said, I get the sentiment behind itChallenging bigotry makes someone just as bad?
Wow.
Challenging bigotry makes someone just as bad?
Wow.
After all, it is 2019Might hurt their feelings though, that's all that matters these days lol
Not sure that matters.Did anyone find out whether the guy in pink was actually homosexual?
I know this is tongue in cheek, but aimed at this whole thread, who really cares. Gay/straight, man/woman, Caucasian/Asian, pink purple or bloody violet, we're all human, all people with thoughts, opinions and emotions.Did anyone find out whether the guy in pink was actually homosexual?
Let's be honest... I bet not a single soul was actually offended that a few people said somebody looked gay in pink... Absolutely nobody
You're offended.... So fucking what (stephen fry)
A gay man
Not sure that matters.
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Is it being offended because people say they’re offended?
My feelings weren't hurt I'm not offended, I just think it's a bit of a dick move, could discourage LGBT fans from attending, and it gives us as a collective fan base a bit of a bad rep.Might hurt their feelings though, that's all that matters these days lol
My feelings weren't hurt I'm not offended, I just think it's a bit of a dick move, could discourage LGBT fans from attending, and it gives us as a collective fan base a bit of a bad rep.
I’d say we are heading towards a more authoritarian society but not being able to shout gayboy insults at a football match as being a sign of it is ridiculous. Does that then make it okay for others to indulge in chanting using someone’s ethnicity in a derogatory way?
Out of interest do you think this joke is offensive?
“I just keep shouting out BROCCOLI CAULIFLOWER”
“I’ve got florets”
I don't personally but I used to work with someone with tourettes and she most certainly would have done.
It's a difficult one this - and by this, I mean bullying.
Personally, I don't get why certain types of bullying seem to get super-powers over other types. I imagine it's because generally, people aren't very bright (average IQ is 100!). So they find it easier to understand the micro specific stuff (racism; homophobia) rather than the macro: the underlying bad, which is some people bullying other people based upon some random prejudice.
I abhor all bullying equally: racism; homophobia; Islamophobia; taking the piss out of the guy with the gammy eye or a hair lip scar... And that's the point. It doesn't matter what attribute one is using as an excuse to bully. If it's bullying (more to follow) then it really doesn't matter what is being used as an excuse. So the question is rather, 'what is bullying?'
I feel like I need more time to consider this question. It's certainly one I shouldn't attempt after a bottle of cava. But, I'll take the risk. I think that aggression is the difference between piss-taking and bullying. But I've just shifted the difficult definition from 'bullying' to 'aggression'. Because 'aggression' can be subtle. One can deny someone a job because he is bald or trans and that is aggression - even if it's all done with a grin fuck ( a phrase an ex-boss of mine used: to grin at someone and mouth positive platitudes whilst fucking them career-wise).
Onto my second bottle - logic is going to deteriorate...
I'm going to split it into two parts now.
1. No economic impact
2. Economic impact
1. No Economic Impact. This is about making someone feel bad without actually impacting their life chances. It goes all the way from a snide comment to beating someone up without a hospital visit. I think that this has to be (as, I believe the internationally accepted definition of antisemitism is) all about the perception of the victim. A few chants in the terraces, even if intended in good-humour, are only bullying if the recipient feels abused. But now we open Pandora's Box, because the role of victim can be played disingenuously. And we have a number of people nowadays who have no humour and are perma-offended. Hard isn't it?
2. Economic Impact. So now we're talking about something that really impacts someone's life: such as being gay means they earn £200k less over their career, so they live in a worse flat; they have less expensive holidays etc.).
This is also hard - hard to prove or define I mean. There's a lot of publicity about the gender pay-gap - but again those bloody infuriating average 100 IQ people focus on the specific and not the macro. There most certainly is a gender pay-gap but it's far smaller when considering pay for specific roles - the implication being that women generally may choose professions which pay less well. And then we're into the whole free-market question which I'm assigning ultra vires for this post.
But is there also a race pay-gap? Personally, when hiring I always gave the benefit of doubt to the most 'disadvantaged' person I had interviewed... which once led me to hire a very short Indian lady over an average height Indian man. But there probably is such a prejudice (I don't study social sciences so I don't have stats to hand - but then again I value so lowly the intellect of social scientists that I may not even trust their findings).
I think there are other pay-gaps that may be even more dramatic. Here's one (as a man below 5' 7" in height). There is definitely a pay gap related to height. But then, looking back (and I was frustrated at the time) - how much of the height thing actually resulted in a superior gravitas or confidence or ability to inspire? I don't know.
I am very aware that I've written a lot of words and probably nothing of value. And if you want to respond that I'm just a wanker, I'll get it. If I must boil it down to a few thoughts:
- There is a very fine line between 'bantz' / humour and bullying. And that line is defined by the perception of the victim.
- Offence by the victim does not prove intent by the initiator.
- Economic bullying is more serious but much harder to define or prove.
And finally, my own philosophy for life: just be nice to other people. Being nice may include piss-taking if you feel they are getting it as a joke and are giving it back. But it certainly doesn't include making someone else feel bad. That's horrible.
So if one person is offended no humour can be allowed can it?
Interestingly this was a joke at the Edinburgh festival considered the funniest. Many were offended at complained but oddly those with the condition did generally not object. So many people take indignation on behalf of others.
Likewise should Gary Lineker have been suspended after several complaints to the BBC after a bald joke mocking Alan Shearer ?
The average IQ will always be 100. That’s how the IQ system works.
Where is the joke in using 'gayboy' as a taunt? It's like being back in the 1980s.
And finally, my own philosophy for life: just be nice to other people. Being nice may include piss-taking if you feel they are getting it as a joke and are giving it back. But it certainly doesn't include making someone else feel bad. That's horrible.
My feelings weren't hurt I'm not offended, I just think it's a bit of a dick move, could discourage LGBT fans from attending, and it gives us as a collective fan base a bit of a bad rep.
Not the point really is it and if the person in the pink is not gay it’s not a problem to him
I assume if someone shouts bald bastard at a game is that as bad do you think?
Of course. That wasn't the point.I'm on your side on this Faz. Everyone should feel welcome at our games. But in terms of all the problems we have - the non-attendance of the possible legions of Cov LGBT fans just waiting to show up at our games is probably a fairly long way down the list.
There are going to be a significant number of gay players within the game that feel that there is something preventing them from openly living their lives. They perceive that the reaction to their coming would make them a target of abuse and ridicule and is therefore it's preventing them from doing so. The game is way behind other sports in this regard and doesn't look like changing any time soon.
Apart from Stephen Ireland, how many footballers have hid their bald head out of shame?
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