Hoffman to make offical bid (2 Viewers)

Godiva · Aug 21, 2011

ashbyjan said:
No Godiva I dont want you to leave - differences of opinion and discussion are the lifeblood of any forum - as long as people can be reasoned and not resort to personal insults then a board will thrive and be entertaining and informative. If you are one of the board the good - perhaps you could explain something to a simpleton like myself:

I am sadly not on the clubs board, not a member/employee of SISU or even an investor in one of SISU's funds, but lets play anyway.

ashbyjan said:
I am an investor with a £1m to spare - why should I invest with you? Why would I trust a compnay (and all investment is done on past record, trust and perceived potential) that has controlled an asset for 3 years, invested £20 or £30 or £40 million (depending on which figure you believe), has no assets, is still losing £250k or £500k (depending on which number it benefits the board to use) has a poor team, falling attendances, increasing indebtedness and falling revenues? Without going into detail of payback timescales etc explain the attraction of investing in this failing business.?

If you only have £1 million to spare - then you shouldn't invest in ccfc or any other company where you couldn't withdraw your investment whenever you want to.
If you have £1 million to invest I would suggest you spread your risk and not spend more than 5% on any one investment.

Ok, so now you say you actually have £20 mil and want to throw £1 mil at Coventry, your favorite football team.
SISU - or the board of ccfc - are looking for investors, so you would ask them for an investment prospect. When they are convinced you really have £1 mil they will hand you the prospect and start 'selling' it to you.
You will ask all the right questions:
- What is my exit point
- What is my expected return of the investment
- What are the risks (the nature, triggers, impact)
- What will the money be used for
etc
All your questions in your (above) post will be answered and you will be in a position to make your mind up - should you invest or not.

I think SISU are looking for heavy investors with the goal of raising enough money to buy the Ricoh. This particular investment would be ringfenced - no money would be spend on the team or reducing the old loans. A new fund would most likely be sat up for the purpose.
The construction would likely be that a percentage of the profit from the Ricoh would only benefit the new investors - repaying those loans over a 20 year periode, but at the same time the remaining profit would be used to increase the teams wage bill (without comprimising the financial fair play rules or increasing the operational losses).

It is also fairly possible that SISU are looking for investors to buy players. When those players are resold the investors would get their money back with an interest. Investments would again be set up as loans without interest or periodic installments.

But as I have no insight into the clubs mindset, I can only speculate or give an 'educated guess'.

Senior Vick from Alicante · Aug 21, 2011

Have to agree with skybluejelly and ashbyjan. No one will invest in the business as the track record is one of nothing but monthly losses. I would imagine that any one who they sell the club to will have to take on the debt as they did originally, this means that a potential buyer will have to service part or whole of that ring fenced debt depending on what deal can be arrainged between the two parties, perhaps oldskyblue would have some more insight on this? At the end of the day SISU look at us on a balance sheet as part of their over all business, their is nothing to stop them liquidating the asset if its loosing money for them as they are at present still servicing the original debt. The half a million a month saved would mean they would have no debt after 6 years assuming 30 million is the correct amount.
I think they are getting backed in to a corner at the moment but that does not mean they have to nessecarily play ball with any one. Their long term plan in my view was nothing to do with football it was all about property aquisition and the potential proffit in the resale of the Ricoh. This all went tits up on them when the nice people within the Higgs trust smelt a rat, they nore the council would now never sanction a sale to these idiots. Their business record with us in their portfolio is looking decidedly shaky linked to miss information constantly coming from the board room. Whatever the outcome I believe it will be resolved before the next transfer window. I have a freind who works at the ricoh but is the sole of descretion in as far as their internal dealings with both ACL and the club. They have said that its not just the fans that are suffering, morale within the club, excluding the playing staff, is at an all time low.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 21, 2011

personally I think these boards are better for Godiva's opinions and his view should be valued not ridiculed. It might be different to others but he is like everyone else entitled to express it without being abused or judged less worthy. Dont always agree with him but I fully respect his view.

I suppose calling folk names or deriding their support is an expression of opinion but frankly it doesnt offer much. This club has far greater problems whether someone might have a minority or different view to yours.

just my opinion to which I am fully entitled

oldskyblue58 · Aug 21, 2011

They could ring fence the debt yes Senior Vick but I think the premise is that the loan is written off so wouldnt need to be serviced. Frankly I cannot see a total write off happening and there will need to be some settlement or ring fencing in any agreement

coundonskyblue · Aug 21, 2011

Senior Vick from Alicante said:
At the end of the day SISU look at us on a balance sheet as part of their over all business, their is nothing to stop them liquidating the asset if its loosing money for them as they are at present still servicing the original debt.

Can Sisu just liquidate the the as and when they feel like it? If debt is owed does the club not have to be put into Admin first to see if it can be rescued?

I seem to remember the owner of Cov Rugby annoucing they were liquidating the club, only for it then to come out that doing so would be illegal.

Moff · Aug 21, 2011

Godiva said:
Ask Nick to create a GODIVA OUT ikon.

Its all about you isnt it :laugh:

cloughie · Aug 21, 2011

Godiva said:
I THINK most on this board are sure the monthly losses are way down - MAYBE

So yes the business plan seem to be working - slowly but there never was an immidiate cure in the first place.

I THINK the meeting you refer to actually took place a few weeks later. Brody had the impression the meeting was already agreed which it was not - the board wanted the meeting but it was not setup at that time.
Was it a lie or a misunderstanding .//.So to keep the club alive and ready for the financial fair play regulations .... what do you suggest the business plan should be like?

Some of your comments are quite constructive and I doubt people want to silence anyone's opinion. Let us look a a snippet of your previous posts, , you THINK the meeting took place, you THINK most of the board believe costs are down. 'Keep the club alive ready for fair play rules', they aren't even agreed and cannot be implemented over one season.
How much more of a blatant lie do you need(council meeting) before you realise they are liars , listen to orange ken's interview yesterday, he contradicted himself so many times he tied himself in knots ,if only the interviewer had pulled him up it would have been so embarrassing for orange ken. Either wake up and smell the coffee or people will begin to believe you are a sisu publicist as a lot of your comments are' I think' and not facts!

Moff · Aug 21, 2011

Godiva said:
I think SISU are looking for heavy investors with the goal of raising enough money to buy the Ricoh. This particular investment would be ringfenced - no money would be spend on the team or reducing the old loans. A new fund would most likely be sat up for the purpose.
The construction would likely be that a percentage of the profit from the Ricoh would only benefit the new investors - repaying those loans over a 20 year periode, but at the same time the remaining profit would be used to increase the teams wage bill (without comprimising the financial fair play rules or increasing the operational losses).

It is also fairly possible that SISU are looking for investors to buy players. When those players are resold the investors would get their money back with an interest. Investments would again be set up as loans without interest or periodic installments.

But as I have no insight into the clubs mindset, I can only speculate or give an 'educated guess'.

Yes they may be looking for heavy investors, but they have tried and failed and look like they have diddly squat chance of getting any in. Their complete lack of transparency may not help either.

If they are looking for investors to buy players lets just try another failed ploy, as in the Richardson era, another winner thats first started this horrendous situation in the first place.

Yes SISU may be looking for this, that and anything, but they are failing on a huge scale, so I would rather see them go and the potential investor come in.

Gaz · Aug 21, 2011

Godiva said:
So you can't think of a situation where the board have decided to meet with the council and the chaiman (or Brody or who ever) believed someone had arranged it (even was supposed to have arranged it), but for some reason it wasn't? You can't see that it could simply be an internal misunderstanding?
You want it to be a blatant lie.

It was a blatant lie, why would I want it to be a lie. ?
FACT - ken said he had a meeting with the council.

FACT - council said he didn't, and the council confirmed that he hadn't tried to set one up either.

So looking at the facts, I would suggest that it's you who wants to believe there not full of crap when it's clear that they are.

WAKE UP

skybluebeduff · Aug 21, 2011

Is Godiva Ken in disguise?

cloughie · Aug 21, 2011

Godiva said:
I am sadly not on the clubs board, not a member/employee of SISU or even an investor in one of SISU's funds, but lets play anyway. THANKFULLY!!!!

I THINK SISU are looking for heavy investors with the goal of raising enough money to buy the Ricoh. This particular investment would be ringfenced - no money would be spend on the team or reducing the old loans. A new fund would most likely be sat up for the purpose.
The construction WOULD LIKELY be that a percentage of the profit from the Ricoh would only benefit the new investors - repaying those loans over a 20 year periode, but at the same time the remaining profit would be used to increase the teams wage bill (without comprimising the financial fair play rules or increasing the operational losses).

It is also FAIRLY POSSIBLE that SISU are looking for investors to buy players. When those players are resold the investors would get their money back with an interest. Investments would again be set up as loans without interest or periodic installments.

But as I have no insight into the clubs mindset, I can only speculate or give an 'educated guess'.

Ah yes I should bow to your superior knowledge as you have an educated guess. Where did you get this education on such matters? Your posts imply facts but all begin with I THINK now we are at fairly possible and would likely, as you said you have no insight!

rob9872 · Aug 21, 2011

ashbyjan said:
What really puzzles me is why Dulieu seems to be trying to derail any potential deal between Hoffman and SISU?

I can think of one!

They are not investors, but on the board being paid handsomely for doing practically sod all. IF Hoffman's guys take over, they all get the boot and the free gravy train stops. They are supposed to act with SISU's best intentions but I would be amazed if they didn't consider their own positions when making such decisions.

Tonylinc · Aug 21, 2011

rob9872 said:
I can think of one!

They are not investors, but on the board being paid handsomely for doing practically sod all. IF Hoffman's guys take over, they all get the boot and the free gravy train stops. They are supposed to act with SISU's best intentions but I would be amazed if they didn't consider their own positions when making such decisions.

You have hit the nail on the head my friend.

Godiva · Aug 21, 2011

cloughie said:
Ah yes I should bow to your superior knowledge as you have an educated guess. Where did you get this education on such matters? Your posts imply facts but all begin with I THINK now we are at fairly possible and would likely, as you said you have no insight!

I once won a game of monopoly against my 5 year old grandson.
I think.

cloughie · Aug 21, 2011

As said you think your wisdom is superior to all others as your reply belittles any disagreement with your views.

Godiva · Aug 21, 2011

cloughie said:
As said you think your wisdom is superior to all others as your reply belittles any disagreement with your views.

Actually you started to make this personal.
It's all fine you question my wisdom as we clearly do not agree on the substance.
Do you really insist on making this a question of who's education and experience into finance, management and investments is greatest?
You go first then, I am all ears.

Nick · Aug 21, 2011

Is this about Hoffman making a bid or is it about people just bitching?

ccfc2011 · Aug 21, 2011

Hoffman hurry the fuck up

Moff · Aug 21, 2011

Nick said:
Is this about Hoffman making a bid or is it about people just bitching?

Now Nick its a tough one. Can I have first guess.....is it bitching:laugh:

Nick · Aug 21, 2011

Think I will go through it tommorow and delete all the crap

If people wanna bitch then PM each other about who is cleverest or have a game of chess!

Moff · Aug 21, 2011

Nick said:
Think I will go through it tommorow and delete all the crap

If people wanna bitch then PM each other about who is cleverest or have a game of chess!

Nick you cheeky sod.

Why should I need to PM anyone, as I am the cleverest

egastap · Aug 21, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
what they bought the shares for has no relevance at all to any deal to get out

Legally, no OSB....but morally......they stuck it to the folks who had shares, many of whom were ordinary ST holders and the like. It is just deja vu. What comes around....goes around

rob9872 · Aug 21, 2011

Moff said:
Nick you cheeky sod.

Why should I need to PM anyone, as I am the cleverest

Fancy a game of chess mate?

Moff · Aug 21, 2011

rob9872 said:
Fancy a game of chess mate?

Go on then, and then double or quits with Buckaroo

Sub · Aug 22, 2011

Well its going to hopefully be a intresting week and hopefully for the right reasons this time, still think there will be alot of crap flying about form SISU and the orange one:jerkit: but one way or another i hope and pray its sorted and to the benifit of the club this time!!!!

Sterling Archer · Aug 22, 2011

I'd much rather read constructive posts from Godiva than "U is orange Ken in disguyz m8, do 1!"

Looking forward to summer holidays finishing.

Voice_of_Reason · Aug 22, 2011

ashbyjan said:
I think whatever anyone might think about Hoffman he is no fool and understands the world of finance so I am sure he fully understands SISU's position and can structure a deal that mitigates their losses to an acceptable level with some sort of promise of future extra payments. What is important is a: we get these people out of the club but b: not at such a cost where all Hoffmans money goes in paying them off and leaves nothing for investement as that would leave us no better off than we are now. What really puzzles me is why Dulieu seems to be trying to derail any potential deal between Hoffman and SISU?

Correct ! Couldn't agree more.

Moff · Aug 22, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
I'd much rather read constructive posts from Godiva than "U is orange Ken in disguyz m8, do 1!"

Looking forward to summer holidays finishing.

Sterling, there are many of us on here who disgaree with the views of Godiva, and write well constructed constructive posts. I still respect his views even though they totally contrast with mine

I do not use text speak, and write in proper sentences, perhaps you should check, and try not to tar everyone with the same brush.

Are you looking forward to the school holidays finishing, as you have got your favourite teacher when you return? :laugh:

I'mARealWizard · Aug 22, 2011

Moff said:
Sterling, there are many of us on here who disgaree with the views of Godiva, and write well constructed constructive posts. I still respect his views even though they totally contrast with mine

I do not use text speak, and write in proper sentences, perhaps you should check, and try not to tar everyone with the same brush.

Are you looking forward to the school holidays finishing, as you have got your favourite teacher when you return? :laugh:

This last sentence makes no sense :thinking about:

Moff · Aug 22, 2011

I'mARealWizard said:
This last sentence makes no sense :thinking about:

It is a joke.:facepalm:
Sterling is implying that fans who disagree with Godiva, are school children, whilst I was being ironic, by stating is he the one looking forward to the school holidays finishing, as next year at school (he is the school pupil) he will be taught by his favourite teacher. :facepalm:

I'mARealWizard · Aug 22, 2011

Moff said:
It is a joke.:facepalm:
Sterling is implying that fans who disagree with Godiva, are school children, whilst I was being ironic, by stating is he the one looking forward to the school holidays finishing, as next year at school (he is the school pupil) he will be taught by his favourite teacher. :facepalm:

I meant grammatically

I was only stirring though :wave:

Sterling Archer · Aug 22, 2011

Moff said:
It is a joke.:facepalm:
Sterling is implying that fans who disagree with Godiva, are school children, whilst I was being ironic, by stating is he the one looking forward to the school holidays finishing, as next year at school (he is the school pupil) he will be taught by his favourite teacher. :facepalm:

Hmmmm, i'm not implying all fans disagreeing with him are like that. Not sure what gave that impression let alone why you took it personally Moff.

My school related jibe was merely aimed at those who reply to Godiva's posts in an immature way, you can re-read my post for clarification. I really enjoy reaidng both sides of the fence when they are constructive and informative posts, especially when myself is suffering with "splinters in backside" syndrome. I struggle to believe either SISU or Hoffman and also struggle to work out which is better (or the least detrimental) for our club amidst a sea of accusations and PR work from both parties.

However, name calling and asking if a poster is Ken Dululululu doesn't really help any debate and makes my cringe at the thought processes of some fans. There's some excellent posts on this board but wading through the crap can be quite irritating at times. Godiva, you may or may not agree with, but at least the feller explains his posts concisely.

So in a nutshell my quip was aimed at those merely name calling without offering a differing point of view. Waste of bandwidth.

Maybe its you who should go back to school.

N.B. My last sentence is a tongue in cheek remark, please don't take seriously and claim that I am part of SISU and/or a Leicester fan.

cloughie · Aug 22, 2011

Godiva said:
Actually you started to make this personal.
It's all fine you question my wisdom as we clearly do not agree on the substance.
Do you really insist on making this a question of who's education and experience into finance, management and investments is greatest?
You go first then, I am all ears.

We may not agree on the substance of your views but I have never claimed a greater education etc than yours, I merely questioned why your guess was an educated one, and why you imply what you think is actual fact.
I have also previously stated that some of your comments are quite constructive and I doubt anyone wants to silence anyone's opinion.
I don't wish to indulge in childish tit for tat. So we will just have agree to disagree.

Godiva · Aug 22, 2011

Forget about me - stick to the topic.

To sum up my views:
- SISU are looking for investments - they want to acquire the arena as first priority and to share the risks as a second priority.
- They are not looking for an easy way out - they have cut costs and will continue to do so. The cash flow deficit is now at a level where it can be handled through player trading (not letting players wind down their contracts and selling one of our stars - or two of our future stars).
In any case I think they will be able to raise those £1-1.5 million needed without player trading, and they would do so as it makes sense spending that amount to secure the £25+ millions already invested.
- Negotiations with Hoffman continues and as the official statement said: "it is becoming a long and drawn-out saga". It is far from over yet.
- It is my personal view that ANY money coming to the table should go towards buying into the stadium and that spending any money on the old loans are downright stupid. If Hoffman wants in and has what it takes, then for the sake of the club - smoke a piece pipe with Ken and work together!
- The current strategy is survival by balancing the books. This includes finding cheap players that can later be sold with a profit, which is what we have always done, and which is a continuation of the Ranson/SISU strategy from day 1.
- We need to take the Fair Financial Play regulations seriously no matter what other clubs does. Financially it will help us survive and tactically it will put us in a better position to those clubs who adjusts too late.
- I see us bring in 2 players. At least one will be a loan player from PL, and the good news are that with our super threadbare squad we are covered by the emergency loan regulations - the window will never close.

Moff · Aug 22, 2011

I'mARealWizard said:
I meant grammatically

I was only stirring though :wave:

Damn you, you grammatical fiend

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