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Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Mar 26, 2014
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #911
Eternal damnation?

fernandopartridge said:
Rob, you're going to go the way of Nikki Sinclaire and Les Reid if you carry on.
Click to expand...
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #912
oldskyblue58 said:
don't think so stupot because it was disclosed in the CCFC accounts as restricted funds (ie the account balance)
Click to expand...

£230-£260K matchday fees.
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #913
oldskyblue58 said:
How do they get £800 -900K from the escrow account when there was only ever £536k in it ?
Click to expand...

Paul Harris meant Escrow + other payments = £8-900k
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #914
torchomatic said:
Did they? I thought the impression was "we want CCFC here but if they leave then don't worry we'll ok"?
Click to expand...

That was after CCC had bought the mortgage out though wasn't it?
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #915
Rob S said:
With hindsight and in view of what's happened since? Everyone, inc Higgs and CCC / city of Cov
Click to expand...

Fair enough but in hindsight I'm more inclined to believe it might have been a lucky escape now we know the colour of Sisu's spots.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #916
2 questions. Didn't the rent agreement require the escrow to be maintained at a certain level? Also the money in the escrow didn't actually come from SISU or CCFC did it?
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #917
Rob S said:
Paul Harris meant Escrow + other payments = £8-900k
Click to expand...

Was obviously dazzled by your tie!
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #918
fernandopartridge said:
Rob, you're going to go the way of Nikki Sinclaire and Les Reid if you carry on.
Click to expand...

Rob was already part of the council protest with Les Reid etc yet everyone is managing to be friendly, no need to try and cause trouble.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #919
chiefdave said:
2 questions. Didn't the rent agreement require the escrow to be maintained at a certain level? Also the money in the escrow didn't actually come from SISU or CCFC did it?
Click to expand...

Think it came from CCFC at the time of Ricoh rental agreement.

Seem to remember that Robinson was supposed to be personally liable for the rent if the club didn't pay it.

Don't think anything came out of that in the end though.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #920
chiefdave said:
2 questions. Didn't the rent agreement require the escrow to be maintained at a certain level? Also the money in the escrow didn't actually come from SISU or CCFC did it?
Click to expand...

They got a grant IIRC, I could be wrong and think I probably read that on here, but that would still be classed as their money as it was given to then for that specific purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
Last edited: Apr 2, 2014

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #921
Godiva said:
Yes - but this is something I have on about for the past two years. Something capsized a deal that everybody wanted.
Must have been something - or someone - arriving out of nowhere.

Any mentioning of Hoffman or Elliott btw?
Click to expand...

Do you think SISU not paying the rent, and not following through with the HoT around five months beforehand might have soured the deal? You can't really negotiate from a position of trust at that point.
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #922
sky blue john said:
Fair enough but in hindsight I'm more inclined to believe it might have been a lucky escape now we know the colour of Sisu's spots.
Click to expand...

CCC "secretly" talking to YB and buying the mortgage was never going to end well. SISU went to the next step and moved us to Northampton after that so who had the lucky escape?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #923
Fisher and Seppala put the debt for rent as follows.

The original demand £1.4m less the rates rebate £230k less the escrow account £536k leaves amount due £634k (in round figures) ....... which is the amount or thereabouts in the administrators report .......
 

Sub

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #924
Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert25 secsHere's our update from this morning's Higgs v Sisu court case as promised http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sisu-v-higgs-high-court-6909074 …
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #925
Just to help out with clarity and everything:

I think we should get to see the stenographer's transcript and the details of the arguments inc. referred to evidence if released at the end of the case so will be easier to follow everything.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #926
fernandopartridge said:
Rob, you're going to go the way of Nikki Sinclaire and Les Reid if you carry on.
Click to expand...

Blimey, is that why we haven't heard much from Les recently? Has he been "under the knife" ???
 

Sub

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #927
Interesting bit in simons write up

Mr Justice Leggatt said that there was nothing in law which said the charity could not negotiate with other parties and that there was nothing in law which meant the charity should have informed Sisu other negotiations were ongoing with Coventry City Council.
He said: “There was no implied term of the contract as agreed. It follows that the counter claim must be dismissed and all that remains is whether the charity is entitled to succeed in its claim.”
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #928
chiefdave said:
Also the money in the escrow didn't actually come from SISU or CCFC did it?
Click to expand...
IIRC grant for stadium building, but stadium already built...couldn't be given to ccfc, as it would look like state aid (yes, really!), so was agreed to put in an escrow account in case of rent arrears.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #929
chiefdave said:
2 questions. Didn't the rent agreement require the escrow to be maintained at a certain level? Also the money in the escrow didn't actually come from SISU or CCFC did it?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty certain a judge said that the escrow fund needed to be topped up during the whole third-party debt order process. The escrow fund was there before SISU arrived, but I don't know it's source. Escrow really means that the money doesn't belong to anyone unless certain contract terms are met or broken, as I see it.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #930
fernandopartridge said:
Rob, you're going to go the way of Nikki Sinclaire and Les Reid if you carry on.
Click to expand...

Are you saying Les Reid has had a gender reassignment operation!
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #931
olderskyblue said:
Blimey, is that why we haven't heard much from Les recently? Has he been "under the knife" ???
Click to expand...

It's Leslie, actually.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #932
Sub said:
Interesting bit in simons write up

Mr Justice Leggatt said that there was nothing in law which said the charity could not negotiate with other parties and that there was nothing in law which meant the charity should have informed Sisu other negotiations were ongoing with Coventry City Council.
He said: “There was no implied term of the contract as agreed. It follows that the counter claim must be dismissed and all that remains is whether the charity is entitled to succeed in its claim.”
Click to expand...

So there was nothing to say "If it doesn't go through, SISU pay the fees"? This is the bit I don't get.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #933
Nick said:
So there was nothing to say "If it doesn't go through, SISU pay the fees"? This is the bit I don't get.
Click to expand...

No - he's probably saying that Higgs / ACL haven't broken any laws, they might have broken the exclusivity agreement but that's to be established.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #934
fernandopartridge said:
No - he's probably saying that Higgs / ACL haven't broken any laws, they might have broken the exclusivity agreement but that's to be established.
Click to expand...

What does he mean by terms of the contract as agreed?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #935
Nick said:
What does he mean by terms of the contract as agreed?
Click to expand...
The charity had insisted on a clause which said Sisu would cover their costs for negotiations - up to £29,000 - if talks broke down, when they commenced discussions with Sisu.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #936
fernandopartridge said:
No - he's probably saying that Higgs / ACL haven't broken any laws, they might have broken the exclusivity agreement but that's to be established.
Click to expand...

seems like he's established it from his comments.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #937
wingy said:
The charity had insisted on a clause which said Sisu would cover their costs for negotiations - up to £29,000 - if talks broke down, when they commenced discussions with Sisu.
Click to expand...

But is that is the one the judge said isn't there?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #938
Nick said:
What does he mean by terms of the contract as agreed?
Click to expand...

I am not sure whether he's saying there was no implied term of exclusivity beyond the 6 week period, or whether he's on about something else altogether.

EDIT - Just read the CT story:

Sisu’s QC Rhodri Thompson had argued that, even though a six-week ‘exclusivity’ period for negotiations between Higgs and Sisu had expired, there was an implied term that the negotiations were continuing ‘in good faith’ and that the charity was not talking to any other parties.
Click to expand...

So yes, that is what the judge was talking about.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #939
Nick said:
But is that is the one the judge said isn't there?
Click to expand...

No he's saying SISU never inserted a similar clause to cover their costs. He hasn't got the bit about Higgs costs yet.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #940
fernandopartridge said:
I am not sure whether he's saying there was no implied term of exclusivity beyond the 6 week period, or whether he's on about something else altogether.

EDIT - Just read the CT story:



So yes, that is what the judge was talking about.
Click to expand...

Ah that makes sense now, cheers!
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #941
He's saying there were no implied terms in the Contract that had the clause ,that should talks break down SISU were liable to £29k.contribution to Higgs costs incurred ,and once the six week period of HOT was over no right to expect exclusivity.
 

Sub

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #942
Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert4 minsHarris says he sought, and was given, assurances by Chris West at CCC that Sisu had been informed of CCC Ricoh bank debt buy out plan.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #943
wingy said:
He's saying there were no implied terms in the Contract that had the clause ,that should talks break down SISU were liable to £29k.contribution to Higgs costs incurred ,and once the six week period of HOT was over no right to expect exclusivity.
Click to expand...

I am lost now, so that term for the legal fees wasn't there either?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #944
Grendel said:
I am just amazed how many legal experts we have on Sky Blue Talk, whoever loses I am sure will be recruiting them in advance of the JR.
Click to expand...

I will happily admit I know nothing about the law an understand less than 10% of Rob or Simons posts.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #945
Sub said:
Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert4 minsHarris says he sought, and was given, assurances by Chris West at CCC that Sisu had been informed of CCC Ricoh bank debt buy out plan.
Click to expand...

It sounds as if Higgs might be dropping the council in it?
 
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