Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (3 Viewers)

Godiva · Apr 2, 2014

Rob S said:
The most depressing thing about this is that back in Aug 2012 there was the chance to do a great deal.

It's easy with hindsight but I wonder how many people in this saga (CCC, Sisu, Higgs, etc) now regret not following thru?

I'm miserable about it myself but then I'm just a Cov fan...

But what - or who - exactly stopped it from happening?

sky blue john · Apr 2, 2014

Rob S said:
The most depressing thing about this is that back in Aug 2012 there was the chance to do a great deal.

It's easy with hindsight but I wonder how many people in this saga (CCC, Sisu, Higgs, etc) now regret not following thru?

I'm miserable about it myself but then I'm just a Cov fan...

A good deal for CCFC or Sisu ?

fernandopartridge · Apr 2, 2014

sky blue john said:
A good deal for CCFC or Sisu ?

What would that look like?

Rob S · Apr 2, 2014

shmmeee said:
What was the deal?

See earlier post re: provisional agreement

Sub · Apr 2, 2014

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert10mAll set to get underway with the afternoon session of the Higgs v Sisu case. Justice Leggatt expected any moment.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2014

Nick said:
Is this in the "Hot" or something different?

I am assuming its the HOT or the indicative terms, I have never seen an actual signed contract mentioned anywhere

torchomatic · Apr 2, 2014

Sounds like what SISU did but obviously without the justice. He, he, etc etc.

Sub said:
Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert10mJustice Leggatt

Rob S · Apr 2, 2014

Godiva said:
But what - or who - exactly stopped it from happening?

This could be answered here this week or at the JR.

Btw I'm talking about the hindsight...I doubt anyone thought we'd end up where we are now back then.

IMHO, everyone should shoulder some blame.

Rob S · Apr 2, 2014

sky blue john said:
A good deal for CCFC or Sisu ?

With hindsight and in view of what's happened since? Everyone, inc Higgs and CCC / city of Cov

Godiva · Apr 2, 2014

Rob S said:
This could be answered here this week or at the JR.

Btw I'm talking about the hindsight...I doubt anyone thought we'd end up where we are now back then.

IMHO, everyone should shoulder some blame.

Yes - but this is something I have on about for the past two years. Something capsized a deal that everybody wanted.
Must have been something - or someone - arriving out of nowhere.

Any mentioning of Hoffman or Elliott btw?

Nick · Apr 2, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
I am assuming its the HOT or the indicative terms, I have never seen an actual signed contract mentioned anywhere

Would this include the "we will pay legal bills if it falls through" stuff as well?

shmmeee · Apr 2, 2014

Sorry I'm lost. The deal for Sisu to buy the debt?

Wouldn't the issue be trusting Sisu to no liquidate CCFC and ACL and run off cackling?

Were CCC perhaps tipped off that it's placing an awful lot of trust in an organisation that at that point had just shown itself to not care about the club over the property?

Rob S · Apr 2, 2014

Godiva said:
Yes - but this is something I have on about for the past two years. Something capsized a deal that everybody wanted.
Must have been something - or someone - arriving out of nowhere.

Any mentioning of Hoffman or Elliott btw?

Yes. Also see Simon Gilbert tweet re: Majeed

Sub · Apr 2, 2014

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert14s
Mr Harris confirms he personally negotiated a deal for £5.5m for the charity's stake in ACL with Sisu boss Joy Seppala.

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert2m
Paul Harris, trustee of the Higgs and ACL director, in the witness stand now.

Sub · Apr 2, 2014

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert4sIt appears total value of ACL was thought to be roughly £5.5m by Higgs at this time. Sisu QC describes it as a 'very good offer'

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2014

Godiva said:
Yes - but this is something I have on about for the past two years. Something capsized a deal that everybody wanted.
Must have been something - or someone - arriving out of nowhere.

Any mentioning of Hoffman or Elliott btw?

just a personal opinion but I don't think it was a single event or person

I reckon it was the constant chipping away at the trust that existed between the parties (with events that happened, comments, not quite keeping to agreements, always asking for more ) until it got to a point when people started digging heels in refusing to compromise and finally breaking that trust. After which there was only one place it was going to end in - court ......... and the fans got hit hardest as usual

Rob S · Apr 2, 2014

Paul Harris (nice guy - he liked my tie yesterday) been on the stand since 2pm.
(More quizzing of Higgs by Sisu QC – this will be the rest of the day)

tisza · Apr 2, 2014

Didn't Pwkh say they valued their share at 7.5 million this morning ?

TheRoyalScam · Apr 2, 2014

I remember the phrase '...like trying to nail jelly to a wall...' to describe trying to negotiate with SISU.

Godiva · Apr 2, 2014

Sub said:
Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert14s

Mr Harris confirms he personally negotiated a deal for £5.5m for the charity's stake in ACL with Sisu boss Joy Seppala.

So a deal way below the formula price if bought by ccfc ltd. And interestingly - a deal that Higgs agreed to.

It is also coherent with Higgs not agreeing with CCC over the value of the shares in ACL.

spider_ricoh · Apr 2, 2014

Sub said:
Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert4sIt appears total value of ACL was thought to be roughly £5.5m by Higgs at this time. Sisu QC describes it as a 'very good offer'

But you said in the previous post that the valuation of the Higgs stake, i.e. 50%, was £5.5m...which is it?

Sub · Apr 2, 2014

i know it might be a strange idea but how about seeing what the whole story is before trying to say one side was to blame or the other?

spider_ricoh · Apr 2, 2014

Godiva said:
Yes - but this is something I have on about for the past two years. Something capsized a deal that everybody wanted.
Must have been something - or someone - arriving out of nowhere.

Any mentioning of Hoffman or Elliott btw?

In a way it doesn't matter why. Up to CCC /Higgs if they want to sell or not, they do not have to give a reason. You could put your house on the market, agree an offer then change your mind, and still totally within your rights to cancel the deal before it is signed and carry on living there, and you don't have to give a reason.

Grendel · Apr 2, 2014

Sub said:
i know it might be a strange idea but how about seeing what the whols story is before trying to say one side was to blame or the other?

I am just amazed how many legal experts we have on Sky Blue Talk, whoever loses I am sure will be recruiting them in advance of the JR.

lewys33 · Apr 2, 2014

torchomatic said:
The point is, of course, they contacted you. They didn't listen to your ex-tenants who may have been giving the "impression" that you didn't have anyone else to move in.

Im struggling to keep up with all of this ....... but didn't ACL give the impression they were distressed as well?

Rob S · Apr 2, 2014

Questioning on the lines of an interim rent deal (was there one?)
"Cessation of rent" on 2/4/12
PH: no surprise rent was being withheld
Also accepted that ACL would receive £800-900k of £1.4m from escrow deposit

Sub · Apr 2, 2014

Grendel said:
I am just amazed how many legal experts we have on Sky Blue Talk, whoever loses I am sure will be recruiting them in advance of the JR.

Grendel have we not done the blame game to death? now we start getting the answers we all want why dont we wait and see what they all have say before starting again that way we can all use the word FACT to prove we are right

Godiva · Apr 2, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
just a personal opinion but I don't think it was a single event or person

I reckon it was the constant chipping away at the trust that existed between the parties (with events that happened, comments, not quite keeping to agreements, always asking for more ) until it got to a point when people started digging heels in refusing to compromise and finally breaking that trust. After which there was only one place it was going to end in - court ......... and the fans got hit hardest as usual

Thing is that sisu and Higgs seemed to agree on that part of the deal. So it makes no sense if sisu were trying to get more from Higgs.
The deal must have been stalled somewhere else - between sisu and CCC?
Why? Over what? By who?

I still can't quite shake off this feeling that Higgs and sisu are more 'friendly' that we think. That they both put the blame on CCC.
Just a feeling.

Otis · Apr 2, 2014

Sub said:
i know it might be a strange idea but how about seeing what the whole story is before trying to say one side was to blame or the other?

This is why I have just been observing and haven't passed any comment at all on the thread.

Err, until now of course.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2014

How do they get £800 -900K from the escrow account when there was only ever £536k in it ?

stupot07 · Apr 2, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
How do they get £800 -900K from the escrow account when there was only ever £536k in it ?

Perhaps the escrow account had more in it but that was ccfc contribution?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2014

don't think so stupot because it was disclosed in the CCFC accounts as restricted funds (ie the account balance)

fernandopartridge · Apr 2, 2014

Rob S said:
This could be answered here this week or at the JR.

Btw I'm talking about the hindsight...I doubt anyone thought we'd end up where we are now back then.

IMHO, everyone should shoulder some blame.

Rob, you're going to go the way of Nikki Sinclaire and Les Reid if you carry on.

torchomatic · Apr 2, 2014

Did they? I thought the impression was "we want CCFC here but if they leave then don't worry we'll ok"?

lewys33 said:
Im struggling to keep up with all of this ....... but didn't ACL give the impression they were distressed as well?

lordsummerisle · Apr 2, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
How do they get £800 -900K from the escrow account when there was only ever £536k in it ?

Was wondering that myself.

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