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Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Mar 26, 2014
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A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #806
chiefdave said:
Interesting point. I guess in business you can but aren't you into the area of hostile takeovers? If the money was suddenly owed to SISU rather than YB what would prevent SISU from altering the repayment terms or requesting the full balance be paid?
Click to expand...

A Hostile takeover is what sisu were surely trying to start by approaching Yorkshire bank themselves were they not?
As opposed to sensible adult conversations/negotiations over buying the share
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #807
Nick said:
So in other words, they wanted out as quickly and easily as possible?
Click to expand...

Of course, they must have been ruing the day they tied up so much money in the stadium.
But that was done in the days a level of trust existed between CCFC & AEHC, something which no longer exists.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #808
Over 800 posts already....there is no fecking way I'm reading all this....

Is there actually anything noteworthy, game-changing or indeed, even particularly interesting in the previous 807 posts?


Update for lazy twats like me please!!
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #809
fernandopartridge said:
It's not trying to underline the credibility, I think it's an attempt to paint the picture that the witness was fundamentally opposed to SISU.
Click to expand...

But it is not a crime to be fundamentally opposed to Sisu, fuck me we'd all be up in that case (well most of us)!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #810
AJB1983 said:
A Hostile takeover is what sisu were surely trying to start by approaching Yorkshire bank themselves were they not?
As opposed to sensible adult conversations/negotiations over buying the share
Click to expand...

That would be my interpretation but Labovich has claimed it was a plan between all parties involved which then brings up the question of legallity based on what he has stated relating to Higgs and CCC working together.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #811
If ACL had missed a payment I could understand the bank's position. But this wasn't the case. Had ACL tried to renegotiate the loan with the bank?
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #812
Agreement was to be Sisu sort out bank debt, CCC extend lease, Sisu buy out Higgs share of ACL and AEG brought in by Sisu to manage arena
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #813
tisza said:
If ACL had missed a payment I could understand the bank's position. But this wasn't the case. Had ACL tried to renegotiate the loan with the bank?
Click to expand...

This is probably why Fisher was constantly on CWR telling everyone ACL was about to go bust. I think basically they were trying to unsettle YB so even tho no payments had been missed they were worried about future payments and would be open to an offer to pay off at a lower rate.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #814
Rob S said:
Agreement was to be Sisu sort out bank debt, CCC extend lease, Sisu buy out Higgs share of ACL and AEG brought in by Sisu to manage arena
Click to expand...

So CCC would still have owned 50%? Not sure why that same deal can't be done no matter who the debt is to? Pay Higgs for their share, pay the loan off (or pay the £8m they were going to pay YB) in return for the logner lease and you end up in the same place. What's to stop that happening now?
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #815
Bear in mind we are discussing events Aug 2012-Jan 2013 when a deal was trying to be made for the benefit of all, pre-Admin, pre-Sixfields.

Sisu had a slightly better reputation (couldn't be worse?!?) back then.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #816
chiefdave said:
This is probably why Fisher was constantly on CWR telling everyone ACL was about to go bust. I think basically they were trying to unsettle YB so even tho no payments had been missed they were worried about future payments and would be open to an offer to pay off at a lower rate.
Click to expand...

Lucas admitted ACL would have been in "a right mess" if the mortgage had stayed with the YB
 

The Penguin

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #817
chiefdave said:
So CCC would still have owned 50%? Not sure why that same deal can't be done no matter who the debt is to? Pay Higgs for their share, pay the loan off (or pay the £8m they were going to pay YB) in return for the logner lease and you end up in the same place. What's to stop that happening now?
Click to expand...

Too much distrust and bad blood, perhaps?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #818
Rob S said:
PKH agreed with QC that there were holes in the bilateral (CCC and Higgs) rather than trilateral approach to bank as didn't consider how it would affect CCFC
Click to expand...

was there any agreement that it should consider CCFC ? and as directors/stakeholders in ACL what duty did they owe CCFC to actually include them?
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #819
12.52 PKH quizzing by QC ends. Over to Higgs barrister Brennan... (Not Bishop Brennan!)
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #820
fernandopartridge said:
It's not trying to underline the credibility, I think it's an attempt to paint the picture that the witness was fundamentally opposed to SISU.
Click to expand...

I think you're right - though of course this comes six months after SISU have walked away from the HoT and have stopped paying rent to ACL, half owned by AEHC.

It would hardly be a surprise that people from AEHC had stopped trusting/liking SISU by then.
 
T

The Prefect

Active Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #821
chiefdave said:
That would be my interpretation but Labovich has claimed it was a plan between all parties involved which then brings up the question of legallity based on what he has stated relating to Higgs and CCC working together.
Click to expand...

ML has alleged that CCC and ACL were working together to de-stablise the club. Whether he's right I don't know.

He does seem to forget that it could be alleged that SISU have worked with their funds and CCFC / Otium to de-stablise ACL. Still, he's not really one for balance is he?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #822
Rob S said:
Bear in mind we are discussing events Aug 2012-Jan 2013 when a deal was trying to be made for the benefit of all, pre-Admin, pre-Sixfields.

Sisu had a slightly better reputation (couldn't be worse?!?) back then.
Click to expand...

and a discussion led by the QC representing SISU at the moment. We still have to keep an open mind
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #823
chiefdave said:
So CCC would still have owned 50%? Not sure why that same deal can't be done no matter who the debt is to? Pay Higgs for their share, pay the loan off (or pay the £8m they were going to pay YB) in return for the logner lease and you end up in the same place. What's to stop that happening now?
Click to expand...

Lack of trust.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #824
Grendel said:
Lucas admitted ACL would have been in "a right mess" if the mortgage had stayed with the YB
Click to expand...
But wasn't that was after the club had moved?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #825
Rob S said:
Bear in mind we are discussing events Aug 2012-Jan 2013 when a deal was trying to be made for the benefit of all, pre-Admin, pre-Sixfields.

Sisu had a slightly better reputation (couldn't be worse?!?) back then.
Click to expand...

They'd already stopped paying the rent for four/five months and walked away from the HoT by then. (And seemingly, moved assets out of CCFC Ltd).
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #826
Rob S said:
12.52 PKH quizzing by QC ends. Over to Higgs barrister Brennan... (Not Bishop Brennan!)
Click to expand...

Kick him up the arse!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #827
Grendel said:
Lucas admitted ACL would have been in "a right mess" if the mortgage had stayed with the YB
Click to expand...

Was that before or after Fisher had unsettled YB and given the impression ACL would be going out of business at any minute?
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #828
oldskyblue58 said:
was there any agreement that it should consider CCFC ? and as directors/stakeholders in ACL what duty did they owe CCFC to actually include them?
Click to expand...

That wasn't covered but I will review notes at lunch (rumble, rumble).
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #829
Jack Griffin said:
Lack of trust.
Click to expand...

Of course. But from the CCC / Higgs side they have, at least publically, appeared to remain open to this kind of arrangement, it is SISU who have stated there is no way they are coming back without ownership which appears to indicate it is their stance that has changed.
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #830
PKH getting opportunity to lay into Sisu/Fisher/Seppala
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #831
YB must be a shit bank then if they become "unsettled" by an "impression".

chiefdave said:
Was that before or after Fisher had unsettled YB and given the impression ACL would be going out of business at any minute?
Click to expand...
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #832
Rob S said:
That wasn't covered but I will review notes at lunch (rumble, rumble).
Click to expand...

Good work Rob, many thanks. You may need to hand SISU's QC a share of your pie money, or you'll be up before the beak too.
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #833
chiefdave said:
Was that before or after Fisher had unsettled YB and given the impression ACL would be going out of business at any minute?
Click to expand...

Careful - this kind of post can get you into legal trouble!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #834
Rob S said:
lunch (rumble, rumble).
Click to expand...

Think we should setup a fund to keep Rob and Simon topped up with a supply of Greggs sausage rolls until the end of the court case!
 

Sub

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #835
Rob S said:
PKH getting opportunity to lay into Sisu/Fisher/Seppala
Click to expand...

whats he saying !!!!
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #836
Rob S said:
Agreement was to be Sisu sort out bank debt, CCC extend lease, Sisu buy out Higgs share of ACL and AEG brought in by Sisu to manage arena
Click to expand...
This was SISU's proposal or an agreement between who exactly?
 

Rob S

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #837
Judge questioning PKH and now he's done. Calm under a lot of questioning but some interesting references. Lunchtime!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #838
torchomatic said:
YB must be a shit bank then if they become "unsettled" by an "impression".
Click to expand...

Well given that ACL never missed a payment and are still in business why did YB suddenly become worried about their ability to pay at the same time SISU stopped paying rent and Fisher was telling anyone who would listen they were about to go bust?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #839
chiefdave said:
Well given that ACL never missed a payment and are still in business why did YB suddenly become worried about their ability to pay at the same time SISU stopped paying rent and Fisher was telling anyone who would listen they were about to go bust?
Click to expand...

Like i said previously ,actually paid down the loan at virtually double rate .

Any higher Risk than the opening loan £21M. when virtually the whole business was around the football ,yet by the end represented around 15% of business.

Much more to the Director who shifted across and alerted YB to the ruse .
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2014
  • #840
wingy said:
Like i said previously ,actually paid down the loan at virtually double rate .

Any higher Risk than the opening loan £21M. when virtually the whole business was around the football ,yet by the end represented around 15% of business.

Much more to the Director who shifted across and alerted YB to the ruse .
Click to expand...

In fact can't he be called as a witness here as a former director of ACL.
 
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