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Have I missed an academy update? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter chiefdave
  • Start date Jul 18, 2016
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #386
Nick said:
CSF and Wasps haven't really given anything away. They just keep saying things like "our door is open".

Like I said, it is all about the PR isn't it and how things "look".

There has obviously been some sort of contact / communication as he has sent over a schedule of what is used and when hasn't he? Why the reluctance do discuss things where things can be proven?
Click to expand...

Ask Chris Anderson. The academy is his responsibility but yet he's reluctant to go and talk to the people HE needs to go and talk to about it. Odd behaviour for someone who is apparently doing all he can to save it wouldn't you agree?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #387
Brylowes said:
I think that's his plan" armybike
Click to expand...
Lets assume thats the plan. What is the benefit?

At the moment the club put in £500K and get a grant for the same. So they get a £1m academy for £500K.

The players that have been sold in recent years have bought in more than the £500K being put in. Its probably the only part of the club making a profit.

Even ignoring the player sales if we no longer have an academy we now need to find more players for the first team squad. Where are they coming from? Young players will mean paying compensation, older players will mean higher wages.

I'm struggling to see how closing the academy saves SISU, who aren't currently putting any money into the club, anything.
 
Reactions: stupot07

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #388
Nick said:
Yes but what you miss is that all of the improved rent deals had conditions on them didn't they?
Click to expand...
The main condition being:
We wouldn't have left, and wouldn't be going through any of this shite now.
Yep really glad they held their nerve, just think of the problems we might be
Facing now if we hadn't moved.:vomit:
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #389
If the club were closing the Acadamy the average fan wouldn't care so if that was the case the club could just say that.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #390
Brylowes said:
The main condition being:
We wouldn't have left, and wouldn't be going through any of this shite now.
Yep really glad they held their nerve, just think of the problems we might be
Facing now if we hadn't moved.:vomit:
Click to expand...

I mean the conditions like the offer only being valid while we were in admin and things like that. They all had small print didnt they where it turned out they weren't actually good offers?

The same as the "come and buy the higgs share" pr stuff that was there to look helpful, realistically it wasn't possible as the council had already extended the lease for Wasps and it was always agreed as 100%.
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #391
chiefdave said:
Lets assume thats the plan. What is the benefit?

At the moment the club put in £500K and get a grant for the same. So they get a £1m academy for £500K.

The players that have been sold in recent years have bought in more than the £500K being put in. Its probably the only part of the club making a profit.

Even ignoring the player sales if we no longer have an academy we now need to find more players for the first team squad. Where are they coming from? Young players will mean paying compensation, older players will mean higher wages.

I'm struggling to see how closing the academy saves SISU, who aren't currently putting any money into the club, anything.
Click to expand...
They only ever think short term the £500.000 they put in is real, anything they
Get out is a maybe.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #392
Brylowes said:
They only ever think short term the £500.000 they put in is real, anything they
Get out is a maybe.
Click to expand...

The club puts it in.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #393
Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #394
skybluetony176 said:
Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.
Click to expand...

I've always bought lawn mowers on line.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #395
chiefdave said:
Lets assume thats the plan. What is the benefit?

At the moment the club put in £500K and get a grant for the same. So they get a £1m academy for £500K.

The players that have been sold in recent years have bought in more than the £500K being put in. Its probably the only part of the club making a profit.

Even ignoring the player sales if we no longer have an academy we now need to find more players for the first team squad. Where are they coming from? Young players will mean paying compensation, older players will mean higher wages.

I'm struggling to see how closing the academy saves SISU, who aren't currently putting any money into the club, anything.
Click to expand...

You're assuming though that local boys like Wilson and Maddison wouldn't have come through the academy if we didn't have Cat 2 status. That's the unknown quantity here and it's becoming very apparent that that is a gamble SISU are willing to take in making the club as streamline and less time consuming for them as possible.

It involves a lot of time and effort to run the academy as well as the £500k every year and as we've seen from franchising of the shop, programs and tickets it's not just money that SISU don't want to spend on the club it's time and effort also. So losing the Cat 2 status is a gamble worth taking for them and it fits with their recent MO perfectly.
 
Reactions: Brylowes

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #396
A cat 3 academy would still costs us around £300k with a c£150k fa contribution, so we wouldnt save £500k anyway.

Whilst you can't say maddison or Wilson may have not come through its safe to say had we not had a decent academy/Cat 2 we wouldnt have consistently produced as many academy players good enough to supplement the first team. There is as big difference in coaching/contact time between cat 2 and cat 3. That's what makes the difference. That's been backed up by our rating which includes the productivity of players as part of its assessment.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #397
Nick said:
I mean the conditions like the offer only being valid while we were in admin and things like that. They all had small print didnt they where it turned out they weren't actually good offers?

The same as the "come and buy the higgs share" pr stuff that was there to look helpful, realistically it wasn't possible as the council had already extended the lease for Wasps and it was always agreed as 100%.
Click to expand...
When wasps came along all good will had gone, we were never going to be considered then.
Once we moved out we were vulnerable to someone else coming in, ridiculous move that
Ultimately sealed the fate of our club, barring miracles we are finished.
Yet you still defend them at every turn.
The c**t has the bad manners and "worse" bad business ethics that he can't even turn up
to a prearranged meeting. And you won't even condemn him for that.
I give up.
 
Reactions: Orca

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #398
Grendel said:
I've always bought lawn mowers on line.
Click to expand...

I've checked eBay and amazon and there's no facilities to run a cat 2 academy on either. Oh well, I'll just have to get off my arse and go and see people who do have those facilities.
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #399
Grendel said:
The club puts it in.
Click to expand...
That's what I said !
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #400
skybluetony176 said:
I've checked eBay and amazon and there's no facilities to run a cat 2 academy on either. Oh well, I'll just have to get off my arse and go and see people who do have those facilities.
Click to expand...

It was your shit analogy not mine.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #401
skybluetony176 said:
You're assuming though that local boys like Wilson and Maddison wouldn't have come through the academy if we didn't have Cat 2 status. That's the unknown quantity here and it's becoming very apparent that that is a gamble SISU are willing to take in making the club as streamline and less time consuming for them as possible.

It involves a lot of time and effort to run the academy as well as the £500k every year and as we've seen from franchising of the shop, programs and tickets it's not just money that SISU don't want to spend on the club it's time and effort also. So losing the Cat 2 status is a gamble worth taking for them and it fits with their recent MO perfectly.
Click to expand...

But what I don't get is if it is bang on CCFC want to shut it down (it could well be), then why haven't CSF / Wasps done a letter and put everything in writing as requested. It is as if CA is trying to call their bluff on it the way he keeps going on about it, the moment they actually do it there is a massive double bluff isn't it?

It would help their PR also, although by the looks of it they are doing a good enough job as you haven't mentioned boycotting them since..
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #402
skybluetony176 said:
Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.
Click to expand...

i'd take b&q to court, then moan that they did let you use you pensioner discount on Wednesdays
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #403
skybluetony176 said:
Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.
Click to expand...

Bit of a rubbish analogy though isn't it?
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #404
Nick said:
But what I don't get is if it is bang on CCFC want to shut it down (it could well be), then why haven't CSF / Wasps done a letter and put everything in writing as requested
Click to expand...

one didn't turn up to a meeting and the other hasn't sent an email

one has an academy to lose, the other doesn't
 
Reactions: Astute and Brylowes

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #405
ccfcway said:
i'd take b&q to court, then moan that they did let you use you pensioner discount on Wednesdays
Click to expand...

And no doubt need a face to face meeting
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #406
Brylowes said:
When wasps came along all good will had gone, we were never going to be considered then.
Once we moved out we were vulnerable to someone else coming in, ridiculous move that
Ultimately sealed the fate of our club, barring miracles we are finished.
Yet you still defend them at every turn.
The c**t has the bad manners and "worse" bad business ethics that he can't even turn up
to a prearranged meeting. And you won't even condemn him for that.
I give up.
Click to expand...
I have condemned him, but instead of being shouty shouty I would like to figure out why. The same as why CSF / Wasps won't send anything over in writing and just whisper things for the Trust to put out there for them.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #407
ccfcway said:
because the onus isn't on them.
Click to expand...

Who is the customer in this proposed relationship?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #408
stupot07 said:
A cat 3 academy would still costs us around £300k with a c£150k fa contribution, so we wouldnt save £500k anyway.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Would we need all the staff we need now? I doubt it. There's another overhead cut in terms of money and time and effort. Would we need to find all the facilities we need to find now? Again I doubt it. So yet again more savings in time, effort and money. We would save much more than £200k going by your figures, lose £350k in funding again by your figures.

The crucial thing is the time and effort. That's the investment they don't seem want to make as much as anything. Hence the franchising. Gavin Strachan might end up doing alright out of this though. If they're going to franchise out the academy he'd be the obvious choice.
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #409
Grendel said:
Who is the customer in this proposed relationship?
Click to expand...

whos need is greater in this relationship ?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #410
ccfcway said:
i'd take b&q to court, then moan that they did let you use you pensioner discount on Wednesdays
Click to expand...

I wouldn't blame them on the latter as I'm 43. But I might play the victim anyway.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #411
Nick said:
Bit of a rubbish analogy though isn't it?
Click to expand...

No worse than your computer one
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #412
Double post.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #413
skybluetony176 said:
Would we need all the staff we need now? I doubt it. There's another overhead cut in terms of money and time and effort. Would we need to find all the facilities we need to find now? Again I doubt it. So yet again more savings in time, effort and money. We would save much more than £200k going by your figures, lose £350k in funding again by your figures.

The crucial thing is the time and effort. That's the investment they don't seem want to make as much as anything. Hence the franchising. Gavin Strachan might end up doing alright out of this though. If they're going to franchise out the academy he'd be the obvious choice.
Click to expand...

I've read it somewhere - a cat 3 costs between £150-300k on top of the the £150k grant - the recommended total spend of a cat 3 is around £500k pa. Given the commitment we have to young players its very likely we would be at the top end. Yes overhead would reduce but then again to total budget will have halved from the £1.1m a cat 2 costs.

The bottom line is, the club won't save £500k from running the academy, and long term it will end up costing more by signing players to supplement the first team.


Found it, the min is £315k however a club of our size and in league one will be on the higher side, we're already spending the max on a cat 2.




Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #414
Nick said:
I have condemned him, but instead of being shouty shouty I would like to figure out why.
Click to expand...

Do you think Anderson should have gone to the meeting even without the requested information having been provided?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #415
armybike said:
Do you think Anderson should have gone to the meeting even without the requested information having been provided?
Click to expand...

I would have gone, and just said nothing gets talked about until it is in writing or a copy is handed over to take away with me.

That way nothing gets spun or twisted.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #416
skybluetony176 said:
Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.
Click to expand...
I've got a cement mixer you can hire.
If you've had enough of grass
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #417
stupot07 said:
Double post.
Click to expand...

I really don't think its the money that's the issue for our owners. It's the involvement. There time and energy is better off from their perspective in other investments. Hence the streamlining. They have less overheads and less investment in every meaning of the word in a failed project that they have lost interest in. That's the basis of it as I see it.
 
R

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #418
Going to be interesting this time next year when CA starts negotiating where we will play our home games on two seasons time.
 
Reactions: Brylowes and Orca
T

thekidfromstrettoncamp

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #419
If i want buy something i go to see the person who is selling it I tell them MY requirement, they tell me what they can give me , i say yes or no but i have to be prepared to do the A turn up B tell them MY requirements If i dont turn up nothing happens I would expect him to make an apppointment as soon a possible and do a bit of grovveling (something they dont do) but it's us that wants (or maybe not) not anybody else.
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2016
  • #420
Nick said:
I have condemned him, but instead of being shouty shouty I would like to figure out why. The same as why CSF / Wasps won't send anything over in writing and just whisper things for the Trust to put out there for them.
Click to expand...
If he had turned up.
Would they be whispering to the trust,
 
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