Groundsharing-a historical precedent (4 Viewers)

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

One of TF's threats over the last few months has been for the club to groundshare with a club nearby either until ACL drop their stance or until the club builds a new ground. A (relatively) recent precedent for this is Brighton-who aren't doing so bad now, so could it actually work?

1. BHA were booted out of their ground in the '90s as the owners sold it off for property development and pocketed the money for themselves. The club had just about stayed in the bottom tier at the end of that season.

2. The following few seasons they groundshared with Gillingham-not exactly local and also costing the club to play there at all. Not long after they moved into the Withdean-basically an athletics track with minimal capacity.

3. The club starts putting things together to build a new ground in Brighton with the backing of the city council. New ground gets built after nearly a decade's protesting against neighbouring Lewes council-and they get promoted to the Champs just before moving in.

4. 15 years after being chucked out of their old ground, BHA are a top 10 Championship side, with waiting lists for season tickets, the ground already expanded after just one full season, and sell out crowds every week.

A long journey (made longer by a neighbouring council), but ultimately the club came from being made virtually extinct to being a real success story. Could it happen here?

ricohman · Mar 15, 2013

Maybe but dont wanna wait 15yrs for it lol. Been supporting cov about 15yrs now and its mostly been bullshit

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

Good point!

Baginton · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton booted out Withdean fc from their own home :jerkit:

Flying Fokker · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
One of TF's threats over the last few months has been for the club to groundshare with a club nearby either until ACL drop their stance or until the club builds a new ground. A (relatively) recent precedent for this is Brighton-who aren't doing so bad now, so could it actually work?

1. BHA were booted out of their ground in the '90s as the owners sold it off for property development and pocketed the money for themselves. The club had just about stayed in the bottom tier at the end of that season.

2. The following few seasons they groundshared with Gillingham-not exactly local and also costing the club to play there at all. Not long after they moved into the Withdean-basically an athletics track with minimal capacity.

3. The club starts putting things together to build a new ground in Brighton with the backing of the city council. New ground gets built after nearly a decade's protesting against neighbouring Lewes council-and they get promoted to the Champs just before moving in.

4. 15 years after being chucked out of their old ground, BHA are a top 10 Championship side, with waiting lists for season tickets, the ground already expanded after just one full season, and sell out crowds every week.

A long journey (made longer by a neighbouring council), but ultimately the club came from being made virtually extinct to being a real success story. Could it happen here?

Dream on. Will you Take the Cathedrals with you as we'll?

This notion that City will re emerge out of the city boundaries is unpalatable. I'm not convinced fans would commit to travelling further than the Ricoh which is deemed to be far away by some of them.

Jack Griffin · Mar 15, 2013

Another non sequiter.

luwalla · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
One of TF's threats over the last few months has been for the club to groundshare with a club nearby either until ACL drop their stance or until the club builds a new ground. A (relatively) recent precedent for this is Brighton-who aren't doing so bad now, so could it actually work?

1. BHA were booted out of their ground in the '90s as the owners sold it off for property development and pocketed the money for themselves. The club had just about stayed in the bottom tier at the end of that season.

2. The following few seasons they groundshared with Gillingham-not exactly local and also costing the club to play there at all. Not long after they moved into the Withdean-basically an athletics track with minimal capacity.

3. The club starts putting things together to build a new ground in Brighton with the backing of the city council. New ground gets built after nearly a decade's protesting against neighbouring Lewes council-and they get promoted to the Champs just before moving in.

4. 15 years after being chucked out of their old ground, BHA are a top 10 Championship side, with waiting lists for season tickets, the ground already expanded after just one full season, and sell out crowds every week.

A long journey (made longer by a neighbouring council), but ultimately the club came from being made virtually extinct to being a real success story. Could it happen here?

You seem to be implying that Brighton are where they are today due to them sinking to the bottom and ground sharing, but I wouldn't say that's the case.. I'd say its more to do with having a brilliant chairman take over the club in dick knight , and tony bloom bringing nearly 100million into the club in intrest free loans, to build your new stadium

You were a very lucky club to get both dick knight and then tony bloom and the Intrest free funding he brought with him.. Fair play to you for both, but these are more of a lucky one off , rather then something othe clubs can look to as a realistic option

Flying Fokker · Mar 15, 2013

We've got a tall dark knit on here. Will he do?

SkyblueBazza · Mar 15, 2013

What you have to consider is that the council would have to give planning permission for a new stadium. Why would they give that? Two fair sized new stadiums, purpose-built for one football club? Any such land could be used for housing or whatever instead.

theferret · Mar 15, 2013

SkyblueBazza said:
What you have to consider is that the council would have to give planning permission for a new stadium. Why would they give that? Two fair sized new stadiums, purpose-built for one football club? Any such land could be used for housing or whatever instead.

They might not have a choice. They can reject planning applications all they like, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be overturned at public enquiry. They have to have a very good case for denying permission, and in many locations I am sure they would have and local residents would object fiercely; but there are some edge of town brown-field sites for which it would be very difficult to argue against a new development that created new leisure facilities and jobs.

I don't think it will ever happen, mainly because the process would be too long and costly, but not because planning consent is 'impossible' as some say, that is just nonsense.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

luwalla said:
You seem to be implying that Brighton are where they are today due to them sinking to the bottom and ground sharing, but I wouldn't say that's the case.. I'd say its more to do with having a brilliant chairman take over the club in dick knight , and tony bloom bringing nearly 100million into the club in intrest free loans, to build your new stadium

You were a very lucky club to get both dick knight and then tony bloom and the Intrest free funding he brought with him.. Fair play to you for both, but these are more of a lucky one off , rather then something othe clubs can look to as a realistic option

I'm not implying that at all-more showing that it wouldn't necessarily be Goodnight Vienna if it happened.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
Dream on. Will you Take the Cathedrals with you as we'll?

This notion that City will re emerge out of the city boundaries is unpalatable. I'm not convinced fans would commit to travelling further than the Ricoh which is deemed to be far away by some of them.

Yes, that's clearly what I meant. More showing that the club's fate wouldn't necessarily be sealed.

Flying Fokker · Mar 15, 2013

But taking it out of the city kills the club. We are as important to the identity of Coventry as the Cathedral is.

theferret · Mar 15, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
But taking it out of the city kills the club. We are as important to the identity of Coventry as the Cathedral is.

What is 'out of the city' though?

I heard a rumour recently about Ansty Business Park as a possible site. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of edge of town stadiums and believe they should be close to built up areas, but if you look at this particular location, it's on the very edge of the Coventry conurbation so it is doable in that sense.

ABP is also the other side of the A46 so falls outside the control of CCC. Planning consent would be feasible here. It is a greenfield site yes, but it is earmarked for development. Change of use might be an issue, but it depends what was proposed and if it included office elements and investment in job creation it would be OK. Access is easy, M6 and A46, and the access road has already been built. Residents? There aren't any. Would Rugby council object? Perhaps. Would CCC? Yes, but impact on local roads in Coventry would be minimal so they would have no grounds. At public enquiry this would get through providing the proposal ticked all the boxes in terms of job creation.

I don't think this will happen for other reasons and doubt the validity of the rumour, so I am playing devil's advocate to a degree, but I am just illustrating the point that in this instance we would only be just outside the city boundary, and wouldn't face massive planning obstacles. In other words, it wouldn't be THAT objectionable, although I am sure others would disagree.

luwalla · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I'm not implying that at all-more showing that it wouldn't necessarily be Goodnight Vienna if it happened.

i hear ya & fair play play, maybe you are right and we would get our knight in shining armour come along and save us ( see what i did there .... but to be honest, and as i said below, the chances of getting what you did are slim at best ..

you got as dick knight & tony bloom,and its put you where you are.. Luton didnt & look where they are

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
But taking it out of the city kills the club. We are as important to the identity of Coventry as the Cathedral is.

It wouldn't be forever-all I said was is that there's a precedent of a skint club being made homeless and ultimately coming back stronger rather than totally folding.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

luwalla said:
i hear ya & fair play play, maybe you are right and we would get our knight in shining armour come along and save us ( see what i did there .... but to be honest, and as i said below, the chances of getting what you did are slim at best ..

you got as dick knight & tony bloom,and its put you where you are.. Luton didnt & look where they are

You talk to me as though I'm actually a Brighton fan-I just lived there !

luwalla · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You talk to me as though I'm actually a Brighton fan-I just lived there !

ahh sorry i thought you did support them too! ok, explains why maybe you didnt know about / mention some keys points to their rise from the dead in your original post.. points which meant their story is more of a one off, with a very very slim chance of happening again, especially in todays economy

one in a million chance is better than no chance though i guess..

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

luwalla said:
ahh sorry i thought you did support them too! ok, explains why maybe you didnt know about / mention some keys points to their rise from the dead in your original post.. points which meant their story is more of a one off, with a very very slim chance of happening again, especially in todays economy

one in a million chance is better than no chance though i guess..

Oh no I'm aware of the whole bunch of people involved. Thing is even with them it took an extremely long time to get the Amex built.

shy_tall_knight · Mar 15, 2013

A new ground is a non-starter and SISU who struggled to invest anythinh in the club in the summer of 2011, I can't see them funding £30-40m to develop a new ground.

ABP - is right out of town, makes the RICOH feel like being in the city centre.

Jack Griffin · Mar 15, 2013

2 large stadia in close proximity to the city would probably result in both underperforming.
Developers will be less inclined to get involved if the risk to benefit ratio is poor.

Can't see it as anything but an idle threat.

fernandopartridge · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
One of TF's threats over the last few months has been for the club to groundshare with a club nearby either until ACL drop their stance or until the club builds a new ground. A (relatively) recent precedent for this is Brighton-who aren't doing so bad now, so could it actually work?

1. BHA were booted out of their ground in the '90s as the owners sold it off for property development and pocketed the money for themselves. The club had just about stayed in the bottom tier at the end of that season.

2. The following few seasons they groundshared with Gillingham-not exactly local and also costing the club to play there at all. Not long after they moved into the Withdean-basically an athletics track with minimal capacity.

3. The club starts putting things together to build a new ground in Brighton with the backing of the city council. New ground gets built after nearly a decade's protesting against neighbouring Lewes council-and they get promoted to the Champs just before moving in.

4. 15 years after being chucked out of their old ground, BHA are a top 10 Championship side, with waiting lists for season tickets, the ground already expanded after just one full season, and sell out crowds every week.

A long journey (made longer by a neighbouring council), but ultimately the club came from being made virtually extinct to being a real success story. Could it happen here?

But Brighton have tapped into all those middle class types who like football thesedays. There are no other teams nearby who are tapping into this market [vomit], whereas we're competing with a number of well established clubs within a 50 mile radius.

That sort of 'success' story, if success is a ground full of day-trippers, will not happen here. I hope it doesn't either in all honesty.

steveo1987 · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
One of TF's threats over the last few months has been for the club to groundshare with a club nearby either until ACL drop their stance or until the club builds a new ground. A (relatively) recent precedent for this is Brighton-who aren't doing so bad now, so could it actually work?

1. BHA were booted out of their ground in the '90s as the owners sold it off for property development and pocketed the money for themselves. The club had just about stayed in the bottom tier at the end of that season.

2. The following few seasons they groundshared with Gillingham-not exactly local and also costing the club to play there at all. Not long after they moved into the Withdean-basically an athletics track with minimal capacity.

3. The club starts putting things together to build a new ground in Brighton with the backing of the city council. New ground gets built after nearly a decade's protesting against neighbouring Lewes council-and they get promoted to the Champs just before moving in.

4. 15 years after being chucked out of their old ground, BHA are a top 10 Championship side, with waiting lists for season tickets, the ground already expanded after just one full season, and sell out crowds every week.

A long journey (made longer by a neighbouring council), but ultimately the club came from being made virtually extinct to being a real success story. Could it happen here?

Another example of a failing club now doing well,Swansea City

Steve.B50 · Mar 15, 2013

We cannot pick where to play, am sure the League rules state that if for some reason we cannot play our games at registerd venue (Fire, flooding, bomb blast ect) the league will suggest where we play. If its for not paying reant they will probably tell them to sort it out, not give the ok to play elsewhere.
Its a joke

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

steveo1987 said:
Another example of a failing club now doing well,Swansea City

Indeed, hadn't thought about that.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
But Brighton have tapped into all those middle class types who like football thesedays. There are no other teams nearby who are tapping into this market [vomit], whereas we're competing with a number of well established clubs within a 50 mile radius.

That sort of 'success' story, if success is a ground full of day-trippers, will not happen here. I hope it doesn't either in all honesty.

I disagree there. The football club has a real community presence throughout the city and people campaigned hard to get permission for the ground. Their support is no more middle class than ours.

fernandopartridge · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I disagree there. The football club has a real community presence throughout the city and people campaigned hard to get permission for the ground. Their support is no more middle class than ours.

With respect, I know a Brighton fan and he says the complete opposite.

ricohman · Mar 15, 2013

Its a good post so dont slate the guy, hes a sky blue afterall

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
With respect, I know a Brighton fan and he says the complete opposite.

And I knew plenty more living down there.

luwalla · Mar 15, 2013

I've been to the Brighton ground a few times, it's a great stadium.. And I wouldn't say it's middle class at all... And if it is then they certainly do themselves justice as the atmosphere up there I very very good, lots of singing around the whole ground..

As I said earlier though, it's just not a good example, due to the fact that the owners there are a very rare breed, and what they did for the club is very unlikely to be repeated elsewhere

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 15, 2013

I went away with City to the withdean....probably about 8 or 9 years ago now.....0-0 bore draw under Peter Reid....but a cracking day/night out & the sun was blistering hot.....they had a steward who was the spitting image of "Barry Chuckle" & as our beach ball got bounced around the away stand, the inevitable chants of "to me, to you" were funny as fuck....

...probably had to be there, and drunk....

good times.

italiahorse · Mar 15, 2013

Ansty Park is no different to the current position.
What would be the point?
Planning would be rejected on the grounds that a stadium exists at the next junction !!!
The Ricoh or nothing. Its an absolutely fantastic facility but run by a council.
Like all local authority business they are run inefficiently.
Get it back in private hands and move on.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 15, 2013

luwalla said:
I've been to the Brighton ground a few times, it's a great stadium.. And I wouldn't say it's middle class at all... And if it is then they certainly do themselves justice as the atmosphere up there I very very good, lots of singing around the whole ground..

As I said earlier though, it's just not a good example, due to the fact that the owners there are a very rare breed, and what they did for the club is very unlikely to be repeated elsewhere

Slight reasons not to be pessimistic anyway!

theferret · Mar 15, 2013

FP makes a good point. There are also 130,000 more people living in the Brighton conurbation than the Coventry urban area, so add to that the lack of other teams in the area, the new stadium factor, and improved fortunes on the pitch it is no surprise they are having a purple patch. Good luck to them, but their gates will fall away again in time. These things tend to go in cycles, and apart from the last couple of seasons and a few at the beginning of the 1980s, we have always been a better supported club.

Stafford_SkBlue · Mar 15, 2013

Brighton as a town is fairly buoyant at present. Bit like Cov in the '60's.

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