Grendel
Well-Known Member
Corbyn would have wanted a far harder Brexit. He's always been opposed to absolute free movement as has his union pay masters.
May is for "no deal is better than a bad deal". Labour is for soft Brexit. Both say we will leave. But as usual, there are people who view Brexit differently. The soft Brexiteers have the upper hand now. Let's see what happens on free movement. I think movement will continue, but not as completely free. There will be some form of protection against benefit tourism. Live and work where you want, but don't expect to be supported indefinitely if you haven't got a job.
Germany is the largest country in the EU. Merkel is in charge of Germany. Are you saying that she doesn't have a say in what happens?The cynic in me says that the Telegraph were well aware that Merkel isn't a negotiator and that the negotiations had not even started..... just winding the Sir Ernie's of the world up. A bit more hate against the 'opponents'.
Germany is the largest country in the EU. Merkel is in charge of Germany. Are you saying that she doesn't have a say in what happens?
Corbyn would have wanted a far harder Brexit. He's always been opposed to absolute free movement as has his union pay masters.
I think that he would be more interested in other things, the whole picture, and may be more likely to compromise on some points than hard Brexit Tories.
The negotiations have yet to start, so how can you say Merkel has got in the way? Brexit is in the way of my rights, not Merkel. I don't like Brexit as it brings years of uncertainty with it and there is no guarantee that Britain will be better off than before.
The people delaying the negotiations are the British government - not Merkel - who have yet again damaged themselves needlessly. What the hell are we doing relying on a provincial party to enable mainland Britain to have a majority government? The tail is wagging the dog.
The British hadn't even triggered Article 50 at the time and she isn't a negotiator, why is it so hard to understand? The cynic in me always says that the government knew all of this only too well.
Given his and Mcdonnells views on the EU are far more anti than 95% of Tory politicians I find that a very odd observation.
It doesn't matter.
Merkel is making things worse and it is absolutely clear as day.
It's hilarious that you are both denying it.
no one has made this worse than May. Car crash of a politician.
I'm not saying she hasn't.
I'm just saying Merkel is not this angel she is being made out to be. For all May's flaws, this particular one was on Merkel, and it is one of the biggest things causing concern within Brexit.
we're going to have a group of creationists who believe consensual gay sex is worse than child abuse dictating to our government how they proceed, Merkel is the last of our worries.
Stop deflecting my point.
Merkel has and will continue to make Brexit more difficult.
I'm not deflecting. I really couldn't give a fuck what Europe is up to until we get our own house in order.
We are in such a mess domestically that we need to sort out things closer to home first otherwise we're going to be in bigger trouble than we already are once these negotiations start.
Strange though that that some people don't want the leader of the most powerful nation in Europe to get involved while at the same time expecting German car companies to fight our corner because we are their biggest market.
Getting involved?
May: I want to fast track a deal for our citizens and yours.
Every country in Europe: Sounds good.
Merkel: Nein.
That is single handedly fucking things up. There is no defence for it.
We need to sort our own house out yes, but this isn't about that.
So surely May and her idiots like Johnson coming out and basically giving the EU the 2 fingered salute before the election was announced was not a particularly astute move either..... didn't exactly scream the message of looking to do a deal for the interests of everyone did it?
It doesn't matter.
Merkel is making things worse and it is absolutely clear as day.
It's hilarious that you are both denying it.
I never said it did. Although with 'citizens' a deal was there to be done.
Again though, I was talking about Merkel.
It is pretty clear that I'm right from this reaction though.
Correct Earlson.
The fact that Tusk and Merkel refused to agree with the PM in guaranteeing EU citizens residency rights prior to opening negotiations irrefutably shows that they want to use them as bargaining chips; the very thing that Mart and Sick have been whining about and accusing the PM of for months.
Yet they still wriggle and squirm to deflect responsibility away from their beloved EU.
You're right it is hilarious.
We can talk about Merkel all we want but we have no control over her. We do have control over the elected representatives we're sending to Brussels to negotiate the exit on our behalf, currently we're sending people that have been insulting and dismissive of those they're going to be negotiating with. We need to have our own house in order before pointing fingers over the channel.
fancy going into negotiations with bargaining chips, what a novel idea!
fancy going into negotiations with bargaining chips, what a novel idea!
So you approve of using peoples residency as a bargaining chip.
For some reason that doesn't surprise me.
That's what I'm saying. Our own lot aren't much good, but neither are they and there are so many people here in denial.
Instead we are getting a condescending viewpoint on our own lot, whilst kissing the arse of those in Europe, whether that is in the EU, or leaders like Merkel. It's embarrassing.
Most people would be a lot more relaxed about our exit from the EU if citizens were giving assurances about their fate in the UK or abroad. That is something we have tried to do, yet Merkel is fucking it up along with Tusk. What do you then hear? Brexit was voted for by idiots, Brexit is xenophobic, blah blah blah. It's all our fault. Actually, It is plain and simple that people just don't understand or want to mess up the exit because they don't like it.
Look at the nurse situation. You think applications would be down 96% if Merkel wasn't being a fucking child? No, they wouldn't.
That's what I'm saying. Our own lot aren't much good, but neither are they and there are so many people here in denial.
Instead we are getting a condescending viewpoint on our own lot, whilst kissing the arse of those in Europe, whether that is in the EU, or leaders like Merkel. It's embarrassing.
Most people would be a lot more relaxed about our exit from the EU if citizens were giving assurances about their fate in the UK or abroad. That is something we have tried to do, yet Merkel is fucking it up along with Tusk. What do you then hear? Brexit was voted for by idiots, Brexit is xenophobic, blah blah blah. It's all our fault. Actually, It is plain and simple that people just don't understand or want to mess up the exit because they don't like it.
Look at the nurse situation. You think applications would be down 96% if Merkel wasn't being a fucking child? No, they wouldn't.
At no point have our government tried to give assurances to Eu citizens living in the UK.
Stop deflecting my point.
Merkel has and will continue to make Brexit more difficult.
At no point have our government tried to give assurances to Eu citizens living in the UK.
the fact you seem concerned with the rights of UK citizens in the EU, but don't seem worried about the rights of EU citizens in the UK only adds fuel to the xenophobe argument.
Perhaps they don't count as much! I think we're starting to get a good idea of the sub text to this argument from certain people.
Like Britain, the EU will always try and prioritise its own needs and what's best for it. What did you expect?
Suck it up.
I expect a mature and adult approach from both sides.
Instead it is, 'the EU is amazing and the UK is shit'. Even when the former is trying to fuck over the latter, which is where nearly all of us live.
No you're right, my fiancee doesn't matter.
Give me a break.
You are trying to argue water isn't wet. It's actually hilarious. You know the left have lost when they start throwing round 'you're xenophobic'.
I've always argued that both sets of rights are just as important as each other, so another argument completely flawed.
May for all her shit has tried to give assurances on EU citizens living in the UK, but has asked for the same assurances back, something that was agreed by most apart from Merkel, your guardian angel and the whole point of my argument which has been deflected several times.
May is a joke, but so is Merkel.
The EU repeatedly said they wouldn't hold talks prior to article 50 being invoked so why do you think they would start agreeing thing prior to that? The whole point of having negotiations is to agree things like this. The fact that we've wasted the first few weeks with an unneeded election that has left us in a mess is hardly the fault of the EU.The fact that Tusk and Merkel refused to agree with the PM in guaranteeing EU citizens residency rights prior to opening negotiations irrefutably shows that they want to use them as bargaining chips; the very thing that Mart and Sick have been whining about and accusing the PM of for months.
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