General Election (1 Viewer)

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 11, 2017

westcountry_skyblue said:
Can I ask all you labour supporters if you think all the promises labour said can be implemented in a five year term?
eg.Nationalisation of energy companies,railways,royal mail.
Billions to schools and nhs and social care.
Safe guarding pensions,winter fuel allowance.
Building thousands of houses.
Giving billions away in foreign aid.
Minimum wage
90 odd billion for the eu if you get in before 2019.
Not having a go just want to know what you labour fans think?

The Tories made the same pledge on the foreign aid commitment. A higher minimum wage means the state pays out less on in-work benefits, and I don't remember any manifesto pledge to give the EU £90 billion. As for the others, even if we don't get all of it in 5 years, the country will have moved significantly in the right direction, prioritising the right things and treating public sector workers with a bit more respect. I would rather we work hard to make that happen than accept crap from the Conservatives.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 11, 2017

dancers lance said:
Not if a Labour led coalition has anything to do with it, which will throw a spanner in the works.

How many times does Corbyn have to say 'we respect the referendum result'?

dutchman · Jun 11, 2017

Monners said:
Michael Gove? Environment Secretary? God spare us.

Poison Chalice mate, Poison Chalice.

Gove is May's worst enemy, she's decided that if she's going down, he's going down with her.

dancers lance · Jun 11, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The Tories made the same pledge on the foreign aid commitment. A higher minimum wage means the state pays out less on in-work benefits, and I don't remember any manifesto pledge to give the EU £90 billion. As for the others, even if we don't get all of it in 5 years, the country will have moved significantly in the right direction, prioritising the right things and treating public sector workers with a bit more respect. I would rather we work hard to make that happen than accept crap from the Conservatives.

Talking of foreign aid, I find it particularly offensive that we have upped our payment to Pakistan as they become the first country in the world to kill someone for "online blasphemy"
I bet you can't guess what religion he was questioning.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 11, 2017

dancers lance said:
Talking of foreign aid, I find it particularly offensive that we have upped our payment to Pakistan as they become the first country in the world to kill someone for "online blasphemy"
I bet you can't guess what religion he was questioning.

I agree, there's a number of countries where it's not clear what the point of the aid is, other than perhaps for reasons of status. I'd like us to stop arming the Saudis while we're at it, beheading people for apostasy and witchcraft.

dancers lance · Jun 11, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
How many times does Corbyn have to say 'we respect the referendum result'?

Well he has too, there is nothing he can do about it? He has wanted this for years.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 11, 2017

dancers lance said:
Well he has too, there is nothing he can do about it? He has wanted this for years.

Yes so why do you think he will derail it?

dancers lance · Jun 11, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I agree, there's a number of countries where it's not clear what the point of the aid is, other than perhaps for reasons of status. I'd like us to stop arming the Saudis while we're at it, beheading people for apostasy and witchcraft.

I agree, why would we pay aid to countries that can afford nuclear weapons and space programmes?

dancers lance · Jun 11, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes so why do you think he will derail it?

I never said he did, i said it would be derailed if he had to form a government with other parties who's main objective is to challenge EU exit. I have never once said he would?

eastwoodsdustman · Jun 11, 2017

People seem to have very short memories. Renationalisation policy would bankrupt the country. Labour did their best to bankrupt us without renationalising everything and left us with .....

Liam Byrne has apologised for his 'no money left' note gaffe

Labours manifesto smacks of the old Liberla Democrat ones where they knew they'd have no chance of getting in so promised the earth.
Spending billions trying to do this will bankrupt us and leave us at the mercy of the unions once again. Forward thinking Corbyn taking us back to the 70's. Strikes, power cuts, Rubbish in the streets and bodies left unburied. But hey there'd be free university education and free travel to europe.

martcov · Jun 12, 2017

Sky Blue Pete said:
Another good blog

Britain: The End of a Fantasy

Yes, it really sums it up. Clearly written without Mail style bullshit. Just described the situation the Tories created for Britain. As with Trump it will be the "people" that fell for the rhetoric that bring them down when they see their situation getting worse and not better. When Brexit eventually turns into a disaster - which it probably will - as their is no clear definition of what it actually entails and the people that voted for it are only united in one thing, an emotional feeling that Britain will be better off. That doesn't look to be the case and as the show goes on it is becoming evident that this won't be as easy as people thought. Corbyn has not really committed himself either way. He says he will carry it out, but there is no rhetoric or great plan as to how. He could just as easily turn around and say that Brexit isn't going the way the electorate wanted and start a campaign for Brexit (very) Lite or not at all to protect workers rights, jobs and human rights. He is in a great position to watch the tories and Brexit collapse into disarray.

clint van damme · Jun 12, 2017

martcov said:
Yes, it really sums it up. Clearly written without Mail style bullshit. Just described the situation the Tories created for Britain. As with Trump it will be the "people" that fell for the rhetoric that bring them down when they see their situation getting worse and not better. When Brexit eventually turns into a disaster - which it probably will - as their is no clear definition of what it actually entails and the people that voted for it are only united in one thing, an emotional feeling that Britain will be better off. That doesn't look to be the case and as the show goes on it is becoming evident that this won't be as easy as people thought. Corbyn has not really committed himself either way. He says he will carry it out, but there is no rhetoric or great plan as to how. He could just as easily turn around and say that Brexit isn't going the way the electorate wanted and start a campaign for Brexit (very) Lite or not at all to protect workers rights, jobs and human rights. He is in a great position to watch the tories and Brexit collapse into disarray.

I've stopped reading the politicians view on Brexit and started reading the economists view.
None of those I've read, from either end of the political spectrum thinks it will ne anything other than disastrous for the economy.

SkyblueBazza · Jun 12, 2017

Just heard David Davis saying after working with Teresa May for 10months now, she is an excellent decision-maker who really listens to people.

Perhaps she was listening to the wrong people all along? Which has led to bad decisions?

Or perhaps he is talking out of his arse?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Kingokings204 · Jun 12, 2017

Confirmation of we will be leaving the single market. Even John McDonell has said we need to leave the single market. Finally an admission of the result last year. Maybe labour can get back into power if they keep this talk up.

skybluetony176 · Jun 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Confirmation of we will be leaving the single market. Even John McDonell has said we need to leave the single market. Finally an admission of the result last year. Maybe labour can get back into power if they keep this talk up.

And a refusal to acknowledge the results of last weeks general election and all the polls that actually show that no more than 40% of the country favour a hard brexit. I think McDonnell actually said we need a reformed membership of the single market didn't he?

shmmeee · Jun 12, 2017

westcountry_skyblue said:
Can I ask all you labour supporters if you think all the promises labour said can be implemented in a five year term?
eg.Nationalisation of energy companies,railways,royal mail.
Billions to schools and nhs and social care.
Safe guarding pensions,winter fuel allowance.
Building thousands of houses.
Giving billions away in foreign aid.
Minimum wage
90 odd billion for the eu if you get in before 2019.
Not having a go just want to know what you labour fans think?

Some of it, maybe most of it. Minimum wage would save money, not cost it. As would building houses. Nationalisation of Royal Mail is stupid I agree, the trains will cost nothing, would make money, and nationalising energy isn't in the manifesto, it's about offering a state owned competitor to the existing market. We are going to have to pay the bill for Brexit if we want to be taken seriously in future trade negotiations, which apparently is the plan. So you either pay it now, or you pay much more in lost trade in the future.

Same question for conservative voters: How would you fund the decrease in immigration that's supposed to cost £6bn/year? Another £5bn/year for hard Brexit. More billions in tax cuts. None of it costed.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Even John McDonell has said we need to leave the single market.

He would though, wouldn't he?

It's not exactly a free trade laissez-faire policy...

Kingokings204 · Jun 12, 2017

Deleted member 5849 said:
He would though, wouldn't he?

It's not exactly a free trade laissez-faire policy...

How do you mean?

Kingokings204 · Jun 12, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
And a refusal to acknowledge the results of last weeks general election and all the polls that actually show that no more than 40% of the country favour a hard brexit. I think McDonnell actually said we need a reformed membership of the single market didn't he?

Well perhaps but 80% of parties voted for last Thursday favor brexit and honoring the result. I can't find the exact quote from McDonell just yet but my point is if they honor the result and do the basics like leave the single market that will be enough for most labour voters and I would return to the party myself. As you know I don't believe in hard and soft brexits I believed in remain or leave. As a leave voter I voted to leave the single market and replace it will a free trade deal. I don't think that's controversial.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
How do you mean?

No free market is proper left-wing, innit!

Brylowes · Jun 12, 2017

dancers lance said:
Do you have any idea what the cost and economic impact would be to the country if Labour tried to renationalise said industries? Just ask Argentina, the latest country to try it, it cost them their government and threw what was considered a booming economy into severe depression. not to mention that new EU laws are making it illegal. For example the new EU "fourth railway package" would make the railway side of things impossible.

1, yes as I read their Manifesto, which was costed by the way, out of interest did you
Read the Tory Manifesto that wasn't.
2, Why would you strike up a comparison to a country with which we have no parallels,
Either geographically, politically demographically, Idealistically.
3, the country just voted for Brexit, or are you still pedalling lies and fake news that a
Labour administration wouldn't honour the outcome of the referendum.
4, does the thought of Theresa May heading to Brussels fill you with confidence, why
Did she trigger article 50 and then call an election, the woman is a joke and "everyone
Knows it" trouble is for as long as she clings on "The joke will be firmly on us"

Brylowes · Jun 12, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
.Perhaps she was listening to the wrong people all along? Which has led to bad decisions?

Or perhaps he is talking out of his arse?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

On this occasion, I favour his ARSE.

Sick Boy · Jun 12, 2017

With regards to the SM, I don't think that the country is definitely leave. I expect that we could see civil war within both parties over the issue at some point.

Grendel · Jun 12, 2017

Sick Boy said:
With regards to the SM, I don't think that the country is definitely leave. I expect that we could see civil war within both parties over the issue at some point.

Corbyn and McDonnell are tied to leave - they were demanding article 50 was triggered the day after the referendum.

One of their ambitions has always been to get out of the single market. Ironic the remain voters voted in numbers for a party whose leader has voted against EU integration more times than his opponent.

Brylowes · Jun 12, 2017

Out of interest, does anyone know if Brexit negotiations can be put on hold 'say for 6 months
Or a year, TM calling this election and the subsequent mess it's left us in mean there's never
Been a worse time to negotiate our exit ?

Grendel · Jun 12, 2017

Brylowes said:
Out of interest, does anyone know if Brexit negotiations can be put on hold 'say for 6 months
Or a year, TM calling this election and the subsequent mess it's left us in mean there's never
Been a worse time to negotiate our exit ?

No we have two years and we leave deal or no deal

And before you start moaning consider that Corbyn was demanding the article was triggered immediately the result was announced.

skybluetony176 · Jun 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Well perhaps but 80% of parties voted for last Thursday favor brexit and honoring the result. I can't find the exact quote from McDonell just yet but my point is if they honor the result and do the basics like leave the single market that will be enough for most labour voters and I would return to the party myself. As you know I don't believe in hard and soft brexits I believed in remain or leave. As a leave voter I voted to leave the single market and replace it will a free trade deal. I don't think that's controversial.

You ignored lead campaigner for the leave vote Boris then. He was promoting a soft brexit. Even in his Times column the week after the referendum he was still talking about free trade and movement of people happening post brexit.

Last weeks result suits people like yourself, I'm not slating you when I say that, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion and vote for whatever you believe you're voting for. But the truth is that we have been lumbered with a PM who is so scared of a leadership challenge that she'll happily pander to Davies and some vocal back benchers in an effort to hold on to power and will deliver exactly the type of brexit you want even though you are in a minority.

Kingokings204 · Jun 12, 2017

Sick Boy said:
With regards to the SM, I don't think that the country is definitely leave. I expect that we could see civil war within both parties over the issue at some point.

There will be a civil war if we don't leave the single market. Luckily we seem certain to leave it. The biggest factor is you can't have the single market without free movement. It's simply not possible. Labour and Tory have both agreed this.

Ian1779 · Jun 12, 2017

Brylowes said:
Out of interest, does anyone know if Brexit negotiations can be put on hold 'say for 6 months
Or a year, TM calling this election and the subsequent mess it's left us in mean there's never
Been a worse time to negotiate our exit ?

If they really had any sense they would create a cross-party working group to negotiate. Kier Starmer would be ideal to lead it.

Sadly this sensible idea will never happens down to ego's.

Brylowes · Jun 12, 2017

Grendel said:
Corbyn and McDonnell are tied to leave - they were demanding article 50 was triggered the day after the referendum.

One of their ambitions has always been to get out of the single market. Ironic the remain voters voted in numbers for a party whose leader has voted against EU integration more times than his opponent.

Was just thinking, do you think Theresa May should seek advice from Jeremy Corybin
In how best to suck up to High Ranking Northern Ireland Politicians with links to former
Terrorist groups.

Grendel · Jun 12, 2017

Brylowes said:
Was just thinking, do you think Theresa May should seek advice from Jeremy Corybin
In how best to suck up to High Ranking Northern Ireland Politicians with links to former
Terrorist groups.

Why? She's not talking to a terrorist group -- the group in question were defending their right to be in the UK against a military force aimed at going against the democratic will of the majority of its people.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
The biggest factor is you can't have the single market without free movement. It's simply not possible. Labour and Tory have both agreed this.

...which is why we'll end up with tariffs on goods we sell abroad, whilst imports will end up more expensive for us to buy...

Brylowes · Jun 12, 2017

Grendel said:
No we have two years and we leave deal or no deal

And before you start moaning consider that Corbyn was demanding the article was triggered immediately the result was announced.

And what's wrong with that, anyone would think he'd triggered article 50 and then
Almost immediately called a General Election, leaving us to negotiate Brexit with
The country in chaos, and the Government liable to fall on any given day

Kingokings204 · Jun 12, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
You ignored lead campaigner for the leave vote Boris then. He was promoting a soft brexit. Even in his Times column the week after the referendum he was still talking about free trade and movement of people happening post brexit.

Last weeks result suits people like yourself, I'm not slating you when I say that, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion and vote for whatever you believe you're voting for. But the truth is that we have been lumbered with a PM who is so scared of a leadership challenge that she'll happily pander to Davies and some vocal back benchers in an effort to hold on to power and will deliver exactly the type of brexit you want even though you are in a minority.

Thing is we can argue back and forth all day. Boris Johnson argued with andrew glynne on sky news just last week demanding we leave the single market and customs union and free movement of people. It was a ferocious debate. We will be leaving the single market and free movement of people.

For me the biggest single facotr was not letting the lib dems and snp anywhere near Downing Street and as that didn't happen it can't be classed as a disaster.

clint van damme · Jun 12, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
You ignored lead campaigner for the leave vote Boris then. He was promoting a soft brexit. Even in his Times column the week after the referendum he was still talking about free trade and movement of people happening post brexit.

Last weeks result suits people like yourself, I'm not slating you when I say that, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion and vote for whatever you believe you're voting for. But the truth is that we have been lumbered with a PM who is so scared of a leadership challenge that she'll happily pander to Davies and some vocal back benchers in an effort to hold on to power and will deliver exactly the type of brexit you want even though you are in a minority.

he was banging the drum for the expansion of the EU and the inclusion of Turkey not that long a go until he sniffed a chance of getting into number 10 on the back of the leave campaign.

Ian1779 said:
If they really had any sense they would create a cross-party working group to negotiate. Kier Starmer would be ideal to lead it.

Sadly this sensible idea will never happens down to ego's.

that's a good idea actually. Too many people positioning themselves against their long held beliefs in order to play party politics, this is too important a process to let those silly games interfere with it.

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