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General Election (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Liquid Gold
  • Start date Apr 18, 2017
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,731
rob9872 said:
I saw you mentioning Ruth Davidson above too - quite possibly the next pm imo
Click to expand...

Her election as leader would require the Westminster Tories to give a shit about Scotland for the first time in over 25 years. She has done a phenomenal job but my guess is she will be overlooked for Bullingdon BoJo.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,732
* The 40.1%* national share of the vote for Labour under Jeremy Corbyn on Thursday surpasses the levels secured by Tony Blair in 2005, the last time Labour won a majority at a general election.
* It is the third best share of the vote for Labour since 1974.
* This increased vote share reverses the trend of an almost constant fall over the past 20 years, with the exception of Ed Miliband’s small increase in 2015.
* The increase of 9.7% in Labour’s share of the vote since the 2015 election is the greatest such increase since 1945. In fact, it is the second highest ever increase since the party was founded, falling just behind the 9.8% increase achieved by Attlee in 1945.

Corbyn has not won the election but he has won the Labour party and will now put it on a footing to win the next election.
 
Reactions: torchomatic, dutchman and Ian1779

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,733
Brighton Sky Blue said:
To use the footballing analogy some have gone for here, Gary Johnson was sacked as manager of Latvia after beating San Marino 1-0. Yes he won the game and got 3 points but against such supposedly weak opposition and with much higher expectations than his opponent, the result is a gross disappointment. The stated aim of this exercise was to return a comfortable Tory majority-not only has this not been achieved but she is now relying on the God Squad to let her form a government.

Corbyn closed a 20 point gap in 6 weeks. If this election had another few weeks to run he may even have pipped them.
Click to expand...

I totally disagree. He polled far better than I thought possible, but I think he has hit his ceiling. If those pledges, particularly to the student vote than another election couldn't be so readily ignored by other parties and I think he now needs to say that he's given them new life, a new platform and hand the reins onto someone more electable, because there were still a number who said they wouldn't vote for Corbyn, not that they wouldn't vote Labour. If they do that then they are a threat again next time, if not then I think you'll see at least a similar result to this election in the next one too.
 
Reactions: oakey and Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,734
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Corbyn closed a 20 point gap in 6 weeks. If this election had another few weeks to run he may even have pipped them.
Click to expand...

Was it Corbyn though?

Am I the only one who normally votes Labour but couldn't on principle? A record amount of first timevoters went for demolishing student fees. Pay raise for government workers. More money for the NHS. Or was it Corbyn and not what was on offer?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,735
rob9872 said:
I totally disagree. He polled far better than I thought possible, but I think he has hit his ceiling. If those pledges, particularly to the student vote than another election couldn't be so readily ignored by other parties and I think he now needs to say that he's given them new life, a new platform and hand the reins onto someone more electable, because there were still a number who said they wouldn't vote for Corbyn, not that they wouldn't vote Labour. If they do that then they are a threat again next time, if not then I think you'll see at least a similar result to this election in the next one too.
Click to expand...

I don't oppose him being replaced, as I've said before it's about the ideas rather than the individual. But his energetic campaigning and appetite for engaging with the public need to be matched by any budding replacement.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,736
As someone who takes an interest in the political world, I can honestly say the whole thing has been the worst election in living memory, with the worst politicians and leaders I can ever recall.
What a whole pile of shit.
 
Reactions: Ranjit Bhurpa, Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,737
Moff said:
As someone who takes an interest in the political world, I can honestly say the whole thing has been the worst election in living memory, with the worst politicians and leaders I can ever recall.
What a whole pile of shit.
Click to expand...
But if you believed this thread you would think that Corbyn has saved the Labour party single handed.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204, Moff and Earlsdon_Skyblue1
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,738
Astute said:
Was it Corbyn though?

Am I the only one who normally votes Labour but couldn't on principle? A record amount of first timevoters went for demolishing student fees. Pay raise for government workers. More money for the NHS. Or was it Corbyn and not what was on offer?
Click to expand...

I left the Labour Party and voted against it in 2015 because of what Ed Miliband had done to it. The leader of the Labour Party criticising strikers and promising to crack down on welfare, what did it get them? Annihilation in Scotland and a majority for David Cameron. I couldn't tell the difference between the parties then. Corbyn has made it a very straightforward choice and even Grendel acknowledged the effectiveness of his campaigning.

He is not the only reason for the Labour performance, but he did at last activate the youth vote and get people enthusiastic about voting who hadn't done so. Which compensated for people like yourself throwing their vote away.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849, Liquid Gold, dutchman and 1 other person

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,739
Ian1779 said:
Just out of curiosity.. what's your feelings on Corbyn now the election has happened?
Click to expand...

I changed a few weeks ago. I thought he ran a very good honest campaign without the nastiness of the Tory attacks. As a 30 year member of Labour I didn't need too much convinced. However I believe he needs to reach out to Cooper, Lewis, Benn et al and have a more convincing shad cab. People like Abbott have to be ditched.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849, Ian1779 and Liquid Gold

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,740
rob9872 said:
I saw you mentioning Ruth Davidson above too - quite possibly the next pm imo
Click to expand...
Not possible. She's not a Westminster MP at present and even if they found her a safe seat in Westminster May will have long gone by then.
 
Reactions: torchomatic

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,741
Astute said:
But if you believed this thread you would think that Corbyn has saved the Labour party single handed.
Click to expand...

The whole thing has been awful.

I don't think many people have ever felt so distanced from their MP's and from Westminster life on the whole. Their mandate often now appears personal promotion and not the people they serve. We are generally just plebs to the Political elect.
 
Reactions: Ranjit Bhurpa and Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,742
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I left the Labour Party and voted against it in 2015 because of what Ed Miliband had done to it. The leader of the Labour Party criticising strikers and promising to crack down on welfare, what did it get them? Annihilation in Scotland and a majority for David Cameron. I couldn't tell the difference between the parties then. Corbyn has made it a very straightforward choice and even Grendel acknowledged the effectiveness of his campaigning.

He is not the only reason for the Labour performance, but he did at last activate the youth vote and get people enthusiastic about voting who hadn't done so. Which compensated for people like yourself throwing their vote away.
Click to expand...
He got the younger vote by what was on offer. They never voted for him because he is a fantastic person.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,743
dutchman said:
Not possible. She's not a Westminster MP at present and even if they found her a safe seat in Westminster May will have long gone by then.
Click to expand...
I appreciate that, but there could be by-elections to parachute her in, she has the confidence of many including of course north of the border and likely this govt won't go full term. Her views and whilst it shouldn't matter, but her sexuality, will offer some disillusioned voters who agree with Conservative policy but think it doesn't speak for them, offers a potentially whole new demographic of potential voters.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,744
Astute said:
He got the younger vote by what was on offer. They never voted for him because he is a fantastic person.
Click to expand...

He's had it for 2 years since he ran for the party leadership.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,745
torchomatic said:
I changed a few weeks ago. I thought he ran a very good honest campaign without the nastiness of the Tory attacks. As a 30 year member of Labour I didn't need too much convinced. However I believe he needs to reach out to Cooper, Lewis, Benn et al and have a more convincing shad cab. People like Abbott have to be ditched.
Click to expand...
I agree with you apart from Benn he's toxic.
 
Reactions: rondog1973

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,746
Brighton Sky Blue said:
He's had it for 2 years since he ran for the party leadership.
Click to expand...
And how many registered to vote since....especially the last few weeks?

Then you have how poor the Tories have been. Corbyn isn't anywhere near as good as some are trying to make out. He is no hero.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,747
I can't believe we're going to have a party of climate change deniers and homophobes in government. In coalition with the DUP too
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849, Sick Boy, Ian1779 and 1 other person
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,748
Astute said:
And how many registered to vote since....especially the last few weeks?

Then you have how poor the Tories have been. Corbyn isn't anywhere near as good as some are trying to make out. He is no hero.
Click to expand...

Party membership has swelled considerably since his election as leader. No, he is no hero. He has just put forward positions which have popular support and has done so with enthusiasm and conviction. It wasn't enough to get over the line but it has given Mrs May a bloody nose in the process. I don't care if Corbyn is leader or not, I just want a real left of centre Labour Party that won't allow us to be dragged ever more to the right.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and dutchman
T

The Lurker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,749
Brighton Sky Blue said:
To use the footballing analogy some have gone for here, Gary Johnson was sacked as manager of Latvia after beating San Marino 1-0. Yes he won the game and got 3 points but against such supposedly weak opposition and with much higher expectations than his opponent, the result is a gross disappointment. The stated aim of this exercise was to return a comfortable Tory majority-not only has this not been achieved but she is now relying on the God Squad to let her form a government.

Corbyn closed a 20 point gap in 6 weeks. If this election had another few weeks to run he may even have pipped them.
Click to expand...

if labour had a different leader with the same manifesto and outlines we would probably be under labour goverment today. young people voted for the party not corbyn and more swingers would have been influenced under a different labour leader. the tories were a laughing stock throughout the campaign and still won. speaks volume of politics in 2017
 
Reactions: Kingokings204, olderskyblue and Astute
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,750
The Lurker said:
if labour had a different leader with the same manifesto and outlines we would probably be under labour goverment today. young people voted for the party not corbyn and more swingers would have been influenced under a different labour leader. the tories were a laughing stock throughout the campaign and still won. speaks volume of politics in 2017
Click to expand...

They were there for the taking in 2015 and got a majority.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,751
The Lurker said:
the tories were a laughing stock throughout the campaign and still won
Click to expand...

They'll be celebrating this morning then?
 
Reactions: torchomatic
T

The Lurker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,752
Brighton Sky Blue said:
They were there for the taking in 2015 and got a majority.
Click to expand...

the policy's labour proposed this year completely different to 15 and the tories scored own goal after own goal including may missing leader debates was a big factor and labour still didnt take full advantage
 
T

The Lurker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,753
dutchman said:
They'll be celebrating this morning then?
Click to expand...

there still in government so yes. they were shit throughout this campaign and still in governance. sad state of politics if you ask me
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,754
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Party membership has swelled considerably since his election as leader. No, he is no hero. He has just put forward positions which have popular support and has done so with enthusiasm and conviction. It wasn't enough to get over the line but it has given Mrs May a bloody nose in the process. I don't care if Corbyn is leader or not, I just want a real left of centre Labour Party that won't allow us to be dragged ever more to the right.
Click to expand...
Party membership shot up before he became leader. They paid £3 and got to vote. That is why we ended up with Corbyn.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,755
The Lurker said:
the policy's labour proposed this year completely different to 15 and the tories scored own goal after own goal including may missing leader debates was a big factor and labour still didnt take full advantage
Click to expand...

Who do you think pushed for these policies to be in the manifesto?
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,756
dutchman said:
They'll be celebrating this morning then?
Click to expand...
Corbyn was the only one celebrating this morning. What would he have been like if Labour won?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,757
Astute said:
Party membership shot up before he became leader. They paid £3 and got to vote. That is why we ended up with Corbyn.
Click to expand...

I paid £3 then joined fully after he won, just as many others did and continued to do in the time after.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,758
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Who do you think pushed for these policies to be in the manifesto?
Click to expand...
OK I understand. Corbyn is great and the rest of the Labour party are useless. He did it all by himself.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,759
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I paid £3 then joined fully after he won, just as many others did and continued to do in the time after.
Click to expand...
How many have joined since he was put in place? Easy to find out when you are a member.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,760
olderskyblue said:
No? you don't have a problem with Corbyn's links to the IRA, because it isn't "current" yet you do have a problem with Gerry Adams...

Look, it's quite simple. I have a problem with him being PM (or leader of Labour) because of his past. Clearly many don't. That's fine, I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise, but I do like to see consistent reasoning.

As far as Gatland is concerned, if I lived in her constituency, I wouldn't vote for her. if she was leader of the Tory Party, I wouldn't vote for her. The fact she became an informant on the IRA still doesn't change my view. So, I agree with you, it was hypocritical.

But, my views on this are not shaped by propaganda put out by the Tories or the press, it's just a personal thing. Deciding who to vote for clearly involves policies and what goes with them, but sometimes it's just a personal issue that swings you one way or t'other.
Click to expand...


I never said I didn't have a problem with adams. I said I'm more concerned with current threat.
If isis laid down their arms tomorrow and a new bunch of maniacs emerged then they'd be more of a concern to me than isis.
But as it is, isis are the current threat and our government is helping them, albeit indirectly then that is more of a concern for me.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,761
Astute said:
Party membership shot up before he became leader. They paid £3 and got to vote. That is why we ended up with Corbyn.
Click to expand...
He won every section of the leadership election... apart from MPs.

So he'd have won regardless.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,762
clint van damme said:
I never said I didn't have a problem with adams. I said I'm more concerned with current threat.
If isis laid down their arms tomorrow and a new bunch of maniacs emerged then they'd be more of a concern to me than isis.
But as it is, isis are the current threat and our government is helping them, albeit indirectly then that is more of a concern for me.
Click to expand...
Would you be happy for those who help with the propaganda for ISIS to become a Labour leader in 30 years time?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,763
Astute said:
The hypocrisy for me is defending one to the hilt and then saying another one shouldn't be happening. You shouldn't think one is OK because it is the party you vote for. Your principles should be the same whatever.
Click to expand...

mine are. I haven't slated corbyn for his meeting with republicans and I have slated May for teaming up with the DUP. I'll slate the policies and beliefs of both parties because I don't agree with many of them but I haven't slated their right to coalition.
But those that were slating Corbyn should now be slating May.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,764
Deleted member 5849 said:
He won every section of the leadership election... apart from MPs.

So he'd have won regardless.
Click to expand...

So the Labour MP's are clueless?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #2,765
clint van damme said:
mine are. I haven't slated corbyn for his meeting with republicans and I have slated May for teaming up with the DUP. I'll slate the policies and beliefs of both parties because I don't agree with many of them but I haven't slated their right to coalition.
But those that were slating Corbyn should now be slating May.
Click to expand...
I have slated both of them from the start.
 
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