General Election (1 Viewer)

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'm genuinely looking for the best overall package to vote for, if anything all this thread has done is make me be wary of Labour even more.
.

You've identified what it is but won't vote for it. You've said often that you prefer the Labour policies but not the salesman. My point to you is that the manifesto would be implemented by more than just one man, and it has a much stronger attempt at costing than the alternative. More to the point, he has consistently supported the need for managed immigration and has recognised a specific problem with uncontrolled immigration undercutting wages. You have a Labour leader saying we need to manage immigration for the first time in decades and putting forward very popular ideas. Whatever you think about him personally, do you not think that what he is offering will do more for you than the alternative?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

chiefdave said:
He said " I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.” and “I didn’t support the IRA. I don’t support the IRA. What I want everywhere is a peace process,”
Seems clear enough to me. He also was one of of only 68 MPs who signed an early day motion in 1994 which condemned bombing.

The audience wasn't selected by the BBC, it was selected by a polling company (ComRes). Their brief from the BBC was an audience representative of the country demographically and politically and included: age, gender, ethnicity, socio-economic factors, party politics, how they voted in the EU referendum and some who are undecided.

And how much of that is down to the media? I've seen a lot of people, when they have seen him give a speech or something like last nights debate, comment about how he came across very differently to how they expected. There is a false version of him being presented by the media.
The people of his constituency seem happy enough. He got elected in 1983 with 40% of the vote and since then has never got less than 50% of the vote.

He may have said that line once - I've still not seen it. However, he has stumbled and refused to answer many times. This therefore does not make me feel any better.

What's the demographic of his constituency just out of interest?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You've identified what it is but won't vote for it. You've said often that you prefer the Labour policies but not the salesman. My point to you is that the manifesto would be implemented by more than just one man, and it has a much stronger attempt at costing than the alternative. More to the point, he has consistently supported the need for managed immigration and has recognised a specific problem with uncontrolled immigration undercutting wages. You have a Labour leader saying we need to manage immigration for the first time in decades and putting forward very popular ideas. Whatever you think about him personally, do you not think that what he is offering will do more for you than the alternative?

I think it's very close. As I've said, I'm on the fence.

I want to vote for someone other than May, I just don't feel that Corbyn turns me on in the right ways. Unfortunately, even though he is just one person, not the whole party, he is still the leader, and as the person in charge of my country, I don't feel that sits right with me. He isn't the only one either, people like Abbott make my skin crawl.

I simply dislike so many of them, and I don't feel any of them represent me.

I have never been so uncertain about who to vote for in my entire life.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Hungary and Poland - zero terror attacks.

I guess they are just racist though.

Zero terror attacks in Norway-except for a white guy who shot dead 70 people and blew up 10 others in the name of fundamentalist Christianity.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I think it's very close. As I've said, I'm on the fence.

I want to vote for someone other than May, I just don't feel that Corbyn turns me on in the right ways. Unfortunately, even though he is just one person, not the whole party, he is still the leader, and as the person in charge of my country, I don't feel that sits right with me. He isn't the only one either, people like Abbott make my skin crawl.

I simply dislike so many of them, and I don't feel any of them represent me.

I have never been so uncertain about who to vote for in my entire life.

I don't like everyone around Corbyn, and believe it or not I don't think he's God's gift to the world either. But I do think he is putting up one of the best Labour manifestos in a very long time and is much more likely to do things in my interests than the only realistic alternative. It is much more about the ideas than the individual for me, and thankfully because we have a parliamentary system, this matters. Immigration, which has been a Labour weakness for years, has been addressed by him as well while centrists in the party still don't know how to talk about it. He is addressing it in the short term by wanting the numbers managed, but in the long term by heavy investment in education and skills to reduce our reliance on foreign labour.

Someone who doesn't care about the country wouldn't bother to run for PM and put these ideas into practice.

Grendel · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It is interesting that someone who hates Britain so much and wants British people murdered returns enormous majorities at every general election in his constituency.

Not really. Some constituencies will elect the party member whatever he stands for.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Grendel said:
Not really. Some constituencies will elect the party member whatever he stands for.

If Geoffrey Robinson phoned me up and told me he wanted me dead he probably wouldn't get my vote.

chiefdave · Jun 1, 2017

The other thing I don't get with this Corbyn supports the IRA because his was talking to them is he was talking to the loyalists as well. So using the same logic he also supports them.

Grendel · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
If Geoffrey Robinson phoned me up and told me he wanted me dead he probably wouldn't get my vote.

Which avoids the point I made. The fact is many undesirable politicians from both sides get elected as they are in strongholds.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Zero terror attacks in Norway-except for a white guy who shot dead 70 people and blew up 10 others in the name of fundamentalist Christianity.

Yes, the one and pretty much only right wing attack in a very long time was committed there.

That's a rare occurrence, Islamic attacks are not.

Grendel · Jun 1, 2017

chiefdave said:
The other thing I don't get with this Corbyn supports the IRA because his was talking to them is he was talking to the loyalists as well. So using the same logic he also supports them.

He never spoke to loyalists though did he by attending rallies in their support and honouring terrorists at funerals.

In the early to mid 80's he was viewed as a nut job - same as the likes of Galloway with his pal Saddam and Livingstone.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, the one and pretty much only right wing attack in a very long time was committed there.

That's a rare occurrence, Islamic attacks are not.

How many MPs have Muslims murdered in years gone by? Shall we also look at how many Islamic attacks there's been in Canada? Ireland? It is not progressive policy positions which make this country a target.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Grendel said:
Which avoids the point I made. The fact is many undesirable politicians from both sides get elected as they are in strongholds.

No you have made it clear you think that he wants British people dead. If Robinson took that position here he wouldn't get my vote and he would probably get arrested for his troubles too. If people in Corbyn's constituency believed that about him he wouldn't keep getting in.

Ian1779 · Jun 1, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I'm sure you think it was a fair audience. I thought the BBC was right wing?

Maybe.... just maybe it's because Corbyn and Labour have run a good campaign so far and May and the Tories look like theirs has been run by SISU.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
How many MPs have Muslims murdered in years gone by? Shall we also look at how many Islamic attacks there's been in Canada? Ireland? It is not progressive policy positions which make this country a target.

Ok, so you've used Brevik, and you've used the Jo Cox murder. That's pretty much all there is on that front as we know.

Canada will be soon for Islamic terror with their liberal policies, you can be sure of it. Look at Sweden...

Ian1779 · Jun 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
To be honest, I prefer a politician who feels it's their duty to serve the electorate.

As opposed to those who believe it's the electorates duty to serve the politicians...

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

I'm going to put £10 on Corbyn to win the election.

I guess it is time to find out if this forum is representative of the country.

If he wins, this forum clearly speaks more sense than I thought and I also get some extra holiday money.

If he loses, well, then, he loses and I'm probably happy about that too.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, so you've used Brevik, and you've used the Jo Cox murder. That's pretty much all there is on that front as we know.

Canada will be soon for Islamic terror with their liberal policies, you can be sure of it. Look at Sweden...

Except Canada isn't for it is it. But that's across the Atlantic, what about Ireland? On our doorstep, another progressive government, but again no Islamic attacks on their soil. If we go across to the US we can find plenty more examples of right wingers who killed in the name of their ideology. Dylan Roof, anyone?

Liquid Gold · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Except Canada isn't for it is it. But that's across the Atlantic, what about Ireland? On our doorstep, another progressive government, but again no Islamic attacks on their soil. If we go across to the US we can find plenty more examples of right wingers who killed in the name of their ideology. Dylan Roof, anyone?

Right wing people aren't extremists they're mentally ill duh

chiefdave · Jun 1, 2017

Liquid Gold · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'm going to put £10 on Corbyn to win the election.

I guess it is time to find out if this forum is representative of the country.

If he wins, this forum clearly speaks more sense than I thought and I also get some extra holiday money.

If he loses, well, then, he loses and I'm probably happy about that too.

If this forum is representative of the country then we truly are fucked.

In all seriousness though Coventry is a Labour city, Labour have traditionally had a working class base and football is a working class sport, so you'd expect more Labour supporters on a CCFC forum. If you went on Oxfordshire Country Cricket Club forum I expect the views would stack up differently.

I hope Labour win and I have more hope than I wish I had because I still expect a conservative majority come next Friday. I don't however think May will see out the 5 years, the public perceive her as weak now and people in the party will smell blood, mentioning no name. BoJo is a nickname.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
Right wing people aren't extremists they're mentally ill duh

Usually yes.

Liquid Gold · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Usually yes.

Anybody that kills, explodes maims or assaults people because of some political or religious belief is mentally ill. You could argue religion is a mental illness in itself.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Except Canada isn't for it is it. But that's across the Atlantic, what about Ireland? On our doorstep, another progressive government, but again no Islamic attacks on their soil. If we go across to the US we can find plenty more examples of right wingers who killed in the name of their ideology. Dylan Roof, anyone?

Liquid Gold said:
If this forum is representative of the country then we truly are fucked.

In all seriousness though Coventry is a Labour city, Labour have traditionally had a working class base and football is a working class sport, so you'd expect more Labour supporters on a CCFC forum. If you went on Oxfordshire Country Cricket Club forum I expect the views would stack up differently.

I hope Labour win and I have more hope than I wish I had because I still expect a conservative majority come next Friday. I don't however think May will see out the 5 years, the public perceive her as weak now and people in the party will smell blood, mentioning no name. BoJo is a nickname.

That's probably right.

I want to go on a cricket forum though, reckon that sounds fun.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 1, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Except Canada isn't for it is it. But that's across the Atlantic, what about Ireland? On our doorstep, another progressive government, but again no Islamic attacks on their soil. If we go across to the US we can find plenty more examples of right wingers who killed in the name of their ideology. Dylan Roof, anyone?

Ok, we're on 3.

Here's a list of hundreds you can chose from in the name of Islam.

List of Islamist terrorist attacks - Wikipedia

There is no comparison I'm afraid.

Grendel · Jun 1, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
Anybody that kills, explodes maims or assaults people because of some political or religious belief is mentally ill. You could argue religion is a mental illness in itself.

The difference is terrorist groups as opposed to individuals systematically organise themselves with the sole aim of destroying democracy and the will of the people.

Liquid Gold · Jun 1, 2017

Grendel said:
The difference is terrorist groups as opposed to individuals systematically organise themselves with the sole aim of destroying democracy and the will of the people.

Like Neo-Nazis?

covcity4life · Jun 1, 2017

oh earlsdon. such a warped young mind

Liquid Gold · Jun 1, 2017

covcity4life said:
oh earlsdon. such a warped young mind

Pot kettle

covcity4life · Jun 1, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
Pot kettle

shut the fuck up

Johnnythespider · Jun 1, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
If this forum is representative of the country then we truly are fucked.

In all seriousness though Coventry is a Labour city, Labour have traditionally had a working class base and football is a working class sport, so you'd expect more Labour supporters on a CCFC forum. If you went on Oxfordshire Country Cricket Club forum I expect the views would stack up differently.

I hope Labour win and I have more hope than I wish I had because I still expect a conservative majority come next Friday. I don't however think May will see out the 5 years, the public perceive her as weak now and people in the party will smell blood, mentioning no name. BoJo is a nickname.

Unless she wins a landslide I would be surprised if she lasts 5 weeks. I think her campaign has been a disaster, from the soundbite "strong and stable" which turned into an object of ridicule to her failure to turn up last night.

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Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, we're on 3.

Here's a list of hundreds you can chose from in the name of Islam.

List of Islamist terrorist attacks - Wikipedia

There is no comparison I'm afraid.

My point was never to portray Islam as the 'religion of peace'. My point was that these attacks don't just happen in 'liberal' countries, there are many 'liberal' countries where none have happened and there are 'conservative' countries where they have. It is not because we have 'liberal' policies in Britain (led by the Tories for 7 years) that someone blew himself up in Manchester. If it were up to me there would be no religion for all of the deaths that have been caused by it, but if we want to go into the history of fundamentalist Christianity....

Christian terrorism - Wikipedia

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 1, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, the one and pretty much only right wing attack in a very long time was committed there.

That's a rare occurrence, Islamic attacks are not.

Timothy Mcveigh. Short memories

SkyblueBazza · Jun 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
They are no worse than May, she is going to be a disaster. If I voted for Brexit her u-turning wouldn't exactly fill me with confidence.

In terms of growth, the UK's economy is currently on par with Italy, by the way. Is Italy's economy regarded as strong now, or has it always been regarded as strong?

That's why it is largely irrelevant. The civil servants put the priority arguments down, only loosely aligned to the (ir)relevant manifesto, & the key negotiation strategy. The PM largely just delivers to EU leaders what they tell him. PM & staff gets EU responses & counter demands...& it all goes back to civil servants to quickly pick the bones out of before responding & coming back their own counter demands for the PM to return with.
The PM role in it is to keep it all as far as possible roughly aligned to their manifesto promises, & people buy people first...so to be received well by the other sides teams.
Now call me old fashioned...but I think cringing granny in league with Lizard Davis & Bonkers Boris, versus warm-hearted (front at least) grandpa...all be it flanked by Paul (of the movie!) from the LibDems & Wee Jimmy Krankie from the SNP!
We're doomed!!!

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SkyblueBazza · Jun 1, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I'm sure you think it was a fair audience. I thought the BBC was right wing?

The BBC didn't pick the audience.
It was outsourced to an organisation with a specific brief to gather an audience representative of all parties involved, proportional to the last elections vote shares (I think that's what the organisation responsible's representative said on 5 live this morning).
So all we can say is the Labour leaning people in the audience were more noisey/passionate/angry/boisterous/irritable/etc (empty heads make the most noise?) - compared to those of Tory leaning audience members who were more mature/reserved/dignified/deflated (no leader)/demoralised/scared of the 'rowdy mob'/had no argument to offer/etc

Each will read into it whatever they wish.

My advise...find the bits that are relevant to you on here...

Full Fact - Full Fact is the UK's independent factchecking organisation

And then possibly think again?

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General Election (1 Viewer)

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