General Election (1 Viewer)

martcov · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Why is it a lose lose as you say?

Kingokings204 said:
Wrong. I am making the point the single market is very good for certain people and their desire to stay in it is for obvious reasons. I'm talking about big business and big policticans who do very well out the single market. unfortunately for small business and people trying to make a way in the world like me as a small business owner and create competition they simply can't compete with all the rules and regs of the single market and therefore can't compete so whilst the big multinationals have to do all this also they can actually afford it and do it meaning their competition is squeezed out. Suits them. De regulating means more people and more small businesses can compete and actually create competition on items such as electrical goods, domestic products and services.

I am a small business owner and sell British products- amongst others - so this could negatively effect me if red tape at the borders and punitive tariffs come in.

You are just hoping that you can keep competitors away from your business ( it seems), but if we go holding hands with Trump, as Farage wants/ suggests, you will find yourself steamrollered by US multinationals. In the EU at least we had a say.

The economic downturn is just starting... house prices falling, unemployment going up, inflation going up, real wages being eroded, people reducing wage increases and investment... I think a lot of people are going to be losing out - just by the uncertainty, with no idea when the so-called benefits will filter through.

A promise written on a red bus was obviously bullshit and not a serious pledge. I think people are beginning to realize that they've been conned.

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

Ian1779 said:
No one is saying not to respect the result (apart from the Lib Dems who are irrelevant) - however you can't disagree that the 'Leave' campaign was based on a bunch of lies '350m for the NHS a week as an example' and using the notion that immigrants are to blame for the woes of this country is despicable. That's not to say there aren't merits to being outside of the EU - but those 'merits' did not make it to the forefront of the campaign.

If the truth had been told in advance - do you think the country would have voted the same way?

100% Certain.

Yes it was a lie. What about all the lies the remain camp told? I noticed they were in your post. Did you forget them?

I do agree about the lib dems. They are irrelevant I quite agree.

Liquid Gold · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
100% Certain.

What about all the lies the remain camp told? I noticed they were in your post. Did you forget them?

I do agree about the lib dems. They are irrelevant I quite agree.

One of the directors of the leave campaign said that based on their own research it was highly unlikely they would have won if it wasn't for the £350M-NHS claim.

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

martcov said:
I am a small business owner and sell British products- amongst others - so this could negatively effect me if red tape at the borders and punitive tariffs come in.

You are just hoping that you can keep competitors away from your business ( it seems), but if we go holding hands with Trump, as Farage wants/ suggests, you will find yourself steamrollered by US multinationals. In the EU at least we had a say.

The economic downturn is just starting... house prices falling, unemployment going up, inflation going up, real wages being eroded, people reducing wage increases and investment... I think a lot of people are going to be losing out - just by the uncertainty, with no idea when the so-called benefits will filter through.

A promise written on a red bus was obviously bullshit and not a serious pledge. I think people are beginning to realize that they've been conned.

The latest poll wouldn't agree with you Martcov. 69% of people now want to accept the result and get on with brexit. Yougov poll 3 weeks ago. So over two thirds wouldn't agree with your last paragraph unfortunately.

Maybe if that red tape and excessive rules and regs were scrapped could small business owners compete and give us the consumers more choice and bring prices down? Obviously there are pros and cons to both sides inaccept

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
One of the directors of the leave campaign said that based on their own research it was highly unlikely they would have won if it wasn't for the £350M-NHS claim.

That's life. People have opinions so well done to him. I don't agree. 17.4m voted for numerous reasons I know you can't accept the result but look a bit closer to home on the remain side I would.

shmmeee · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
That's life. People have opinions so well done to him. I don't agree. 17.4m voted for numerous reasons I know you can't accept the result but look a bit closer to home on the remain side I would.

So you voted out to spite people you disagree with?

Dude it was 52/48 that's virtually a tie, while most of the damage was done through years of targeted provable bullshit from the far right (bendy bananas for example), the result was clearly close enough to be swung during the campaign.

Monners · May 12, 2017

Good speech by Corbyn on his proposed UK foreign policy.

He mentioned the five permanent members of the UN Security Council - UK, USA, France, China and Russia and their special responsibility in regard ro human rights

Now there's a challenge, particularly in view that the 5 biggest arms manufacturers and dealers in the world are - UK, USA, France, China and Russia.

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

shmmeee said:
So you voted out to spite people you disagree with?

Dude it was 52/48 that's virtually a tie, while most of the damage was done through years of targeted provable bullshit from the far right (bendy bananas for example), the result was clearly close enough to be swung during the campaign.

Dude it wasn't that close. Only over a million votes in it. Pull the other one. Another in denial. How dare we vote another way. The bloody cheeky hey.

Liquid Gold · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
That's life. People have opinions so well done to him. I don't agree. 17.4m voted for numerous reasons I know you can't accept the result but look a bit closer to home on the remain side I would.

So the director of the campaign has done some proper research but you just don't agree. Says it all.

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
So the director of the campaign has done some proper research but you just don't agree. Says it all.

We vote to leave and you can't accept it. Says it all

Liquid Gold · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
We vote to leave and you can't accept it. Says it all

That's not how politics works.

clint van damme · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
100% Certain.

Yes it was a lie. What about all the lies the remain camp told? I noticed they were in your post. Did you forget them?

I do agree about the lib dems. They are irrelevant I quite agree.

can you give an example? Particularly of a whopper of the same magnitude as the red bus porky.

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

clint van damme said:
can you give an example? Particularly of a whopper of the same magnitude as the red bus porky.

Emergency budget?

Can I ask also if leave side got to distribute 9m pounds worth of leaflets through front doors?

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
That's not how politics works.

Clearly

clint van damme · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Emergency budget?

Can I ask also if leave side got to distribute 9m pounds worth of leaflets through front doors?

cannot agree that that is even in the same league as the NHS lie.

martcov · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
The latest poll wouldn't agree with you Martcov. 69% of people now want to accept the result and get on with brexit. Yougov poll 3 weeks ago. So over two thirds wouldn't agree with your last paragraph unfortunately.

Maybe if that red tape and excessive rules and regs were scrapped could small business owners compete and give us the consumers more choice and bring prices down? Obviously there are pros and cons to both sides inaccept

Two different polls and 2 different questions. The 69% accept the result. The 45% think everything is rosy. Another 45% think it isn't rosy and the rest don't know.

One idea of the EU is/ was to cut red tape and cut queues at border crossings. Red tape is there -and in the UK btw - but the borders are open and trade has benefited. One of the benefits is shorter journey times and therefore less man hours. Transport has become cheaper and consumers have benefited from more choice, more competition and lower prices as a result.

Why anyone would vote against these benefits on the basis of 350 m a week written on a bus, blue passports, getting rid of immigrants and stopping mad Merkel's 4. Reich, in order to go to our English speaking friends and ask for good trade deals is beyond me. But some people have voted for these reasons. Only a 52:48 majority has sent us off into the unknown - that included these people. The results of the uncertainty of the negociations, which will go on for years, is beginning to be seen. The initial boost of a weak pound has been, or is in the process of being , eroded and is being replaced by higher inflation as a result of..... a weak pound. This was predicted and is what you would call "scare mongering".

Yes, there are pros and cons on both sides, but leaving on a "Brexit is Brexit" journey and not knowing where it will all end, seems to me the worse option. The safer way was, stay in and reform - e.g. Schäuble and Nahles don't like benefit tourism and were already willing to work with us to stop that, when we pulled the plug based on some pretty silly aguments.

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

clint van damme said:
cannot agree that that is even in the same league as the NHS lie.

Didn't think so but fair enough.

You also didn't respond to my question of 9m pounds worth of remain leaflets. That's a shame

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

martcov said:
Two different polls and 2 different questions. The 69% accept the result. The 45% think everything is rosy. Another 45% think it isn't rosy and the rest don't know.

One idea of the EU is/ was to cut red tape and cut queues at border crossings. Red tape is there -and in the UK btw - but the borders are open and trade has benefited. One of the benefits is shorter journey times and therefore less man hours. Transport has become cheaper and consumers have benefited from more choice, more competition and lower prices as a result.

Why anyone would vote against these benefits on the basis of 350 m a week written on a bus, blue passports, getting rid of immigrants and stopping mad Merkel's 4. Reich, in order to go to our English speaking friends and ask for good trade deals is beyond me. But some people have voted for these reasons. Only a 52:48 majority has sent us off into the unknown - that included these people. The results of the uncertainty of the negociations, which will go on for years, is beginning to be seen. The initial boost of a weak pound has been, or is in the process of being , eroded and is being replaced by higher inflation as a result of..... a weak pound. This was predicted and is what you would call "scare mongering".

Yes, there are pros and cons on both sides, but leaving on a "Brexit is Brexit" journey and not knowing where it will all end, seems to me the worse option. The safer way was, stay in and reform - e.g. Schäuble and Nahles don't like benefit tourism and were already willing to work with us to stop that, when we pulled the plug based on some pretty silly aguments.

But that's the thing Martcov. You don't get it. You're side lost. Your post is absolutely fair enough but you don't get it. More people voted another way. That's life.

Instead of going on about it on a sky blues forum go and campaign for Britain to after we've left to rejoin. Use your emotion and passion to some good.

martcov · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
But that's the thing Martcov. You don't get it. You're side lost. Your post is absolutely fair enough but you don't get it. More people voted another way. That's life.

Instead of going on about it on a sky blues forum go and campaign for Britain to after we've left to rejoin. Use your emotion and passion to some good.

We may well rejoin, but in the meantime I will challenge people like yourself - on a forum, or in my pub, or wherever, because I think "your side" has screwed up miserably. I always use my emotion and passion to do some good...... I would like the chance to vote for rejoin at some stage in my life... probably when I am retired and maybe living at our old home in Cov........ my mum still lives there, so who knows..

Kingokings204 · May 12, 2017

martcov said:
We may well rejoin, but in the meantime I will challenge people like yourself - on a forum, or in my pub, or wherever, because I think "your side" has screwed up miserably. I always use my emotion and passion to do some good...... I would like the chance to vote for rejoin at some stage in my life... probably when I am retired and maybe living at our old home in Cov........ my mum still lives there, so who knows..

And that's why I am here to debate people like you who I think have "screwed us up" by joining this club. We disagree and that's how it is. I respect your opinions by the way.

Monners · May 12, 2017

So what are the economic benefit of leaving the EU?

Liquid Gold · May 12, 2017

Monners said:
So what are the economic benefit of leaving the EU?

The removal of red tape will allow businesses to restrict your working rights. This will see wages fall and be of huge benefit to the top 1%

chiefdave · May 12, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
The latest poll wouldn't agree with you Martcov. 69% of people now want to accept the result and get on with brexit.

That's different to what Mart was saying. The poll you're referring to is regarding the result of the vote and if it should be ignored. The options were 'I supported leave and think the government should ensure we leave', 'I supported remain but the government have a duty to carry out the result of the vote' and 'I think the government should ignore the result of the vote'.

The last 2 categories would be more accurately classed as remain and total 46% compared to 44% for leave with 10% not giving an answer.

Monners · May 12, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
The removal of red tape will allow businesses to restrict your working rights. This will see wages fall and be of huge benefit to the top 1%

Great - thanks for clarifying.

Grendel · May 12, 2017

shmmeee said:
So you voted out to spite people you disagree with?

Dude it was 52/48 that's virtually a tie, while most of the damage was done through years of targeted provable bullshit from the far right (bendy bananas for example), the result was clearly close enough to be swung during the campaign.

The whole remain campaign was geared towards frightening voters. Many had a natural inclination to leave an institution that has very little that can be portrayed as positive.

Therefore a campaign of lies was orchestrated by the campaign aimed at scaring voters to believe the day after the vote an economic meltdown of catastrophic proportions would ensue.

The sneering liberal elite always believe they know best and the stupid poor will follow the pied piper into whichever black hole they send them. You know the type. The type who claim to support the working classes but really believe they are uneducated wankers and may actually vote because of the shape of a banana.

RB1992 · May 12, 2017

Any wafts of really stinky farts been caught at Parliament recently?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 12, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
One of the directors of the leave campaign said that based on their own research it was highly unlikely they would have won if it wasn't for the £350M-NHS claim.

It doesn't matter.

If you take out all the scaremongering and fear tactics implemented by the remain campaign you could shift it straight back the other way.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 12, 2017

martcov said:
I am a small business owner and sell British products- amongst others - so this could negatively effect me if red tape at the borders and punitive tariffs come in.

You are just hoping that you can keep competitors away from your business ( it seems), but if we go holding hands with Trump, as Farage wants/ suggests, you will find yourself steamrollered by US multinationals. In the EU at least we had a say.

The economic downturn is just starting... house prices falling, unemployment going up, inflation going up, real wages being eroded, people reducing wage increases and investment... I think a lot of people are going to be losing out - just by the uncertainty, with no idea when the so-called benefits will filter through.

A promise written on a red bus was obviously bullshit and not a serious pledge. I think people are beginning to realize that they've been conned.

I disagree.

I think a lot of people and politicians who voted remain, a lot of the media, and a lot of Europeans are trying to make it out that way. In reality it's a bit like the vote itself. The silent majority stay silent which was why it was shock to so many people. They are doing the same now.

martcov · May 12, 2017

Grendel said:
The whole remain campaign was geared towards frightening voters. Many had a natural inclination to leave an institution that has very little that can be portrayed as positive.

Therefore a campaign of lies was orchestrated by the campaign aimed at scaring voters to believe the day after the vote an economic meltdown of catastrophic proportions would ensue.

The sneering liberal elite always believe they know best and the stupid poor will follow the pied piper into whichever black hole they send them. You know the type. The type who claim to support the working classes but really believe they are uneducated wankers and may actually vote because of the shape of a banana.

Yes. Exactly, the elite who make a thing about bananas, blue passports, Juncker's brandy habits, write promises on buses etc. ( exactly because they think that poor are gullible, otherwise why bring these things up? ).... they think that poor people are stupid and will fall for it. Some obviously did, so they were right in part. But, as in the USA, poor people are quick to see what is happening. Look at Trump's approval ratings. A couple of our elite tried to make out that we should walk hand in hand with this wanker ... and were even photographed with him in a gold plated lift! They weren't sneering at the working class... they were literally laughing at them...

These are the elite you are talking about Grendel, not the liberals....the liberals sneer not at the working class, but at the Trumps, the Farages, the BoJOs of this world who have led the working class up the garden path... I await with pleasure the reaction of the working class when things start getting worse with Brexit and Trump. I know whose side I'm on.... I hope you do too....

martcov · May 12, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I disagree.

I think a lot of people and politicians who voted remain, a lot of the media, and a lot of Europeans are trying to make it out that way. In reality it's a bit like the vote itself. The silent majority stay silent which was why it was shock to so many people. They are doing the same now.

People were talking about the rise of the silent majority in Germany through the AfD. The decline of mad Merkel etc.. Bollocks, since Trump and Brexit, the AfD have had non stop arguments because half want to go for the centre ground and the rest to stick by the extreme right - which some on here claim to be "the silent majority". Merkel is again leading the polls. The real silent majority don't want experiments, especially when they see where Trump and Brexit are going. They want safety.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 12, 2017

martcov said:
People were talking about the rise of the silent majority in Germany through the AfD. The decline of mad Merkel etc.. Bollocks, since Trump and Brexit, the AfD have had non stop arguments because half want to go for the centre ground and the rest to stick by the extreme right - which some on here claim to be "the silent majority". Merkel is again leading the polls. The real silent majority don't want experiments, especially when they see where Trump and Brexit are going. They want safety.

Surely if they wanted safety they would go anything other than left...

martcov · May 12, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Surely if they wanted safety they would go anything other than left...

They don't go left or right.... most people are normally in the middle.... it is only with hysteria whipped up by the press or by something frightening happening, such as economic collapse, that they run to the "strong man". The strong man can be right or left - they just want protection from whatever they perceive is happening...

Brighton Sky Blue · May 12, 2017

Grendel said:
The whole remain campaign was geared towards frightening voters. Many had a natural inclination to leave an institution that has very little that can be portrayed as positive.

Therefore a campaign of lies was orchestrated by the campaign aimed at scaring voters to believe the day after the vote an economic meltdown of catastrophic proportions would ensue.

The sneering liberal elite always believe they know best and the stupid poor will follow the pied piper into whichever black hole they send them. You know the type. The type who claim to support the working classes but really believe they are uneducated wankers and may actually vote because of the shape of a banana.

Grendel is Nigel Farage, you heard it here first.

Captain Dart · May 12, 2017

Oh dear Jeremy.

Grendel · May 12, 2017

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Grendel is Nigel Farage, you heard it here first.

The sneering elite are people like Abbott and Thornberry who benefit from wealth and privilege and are outraged when the underclass dare to have an independent thought that contradicts their view of order and structure.

General Election (1 Viewer)

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