Not sure on the 16 year old vote. Does seem a little young.You aren’t really supporting the argument to let 16 year olds vote by declaring greens are the young people’s party of choice
Not sure on the 16 year old vote. Does seem a little young.
Funnily enough, all those I have spoken to (so daughter, my missus' two daughters and their friends, so around 20 in total), none of them talked about voting at 16, or liking the Greens because of that. It was all about the environment and a greener future.
Could've sworn they're your party of choice!You aren’t really supporting the argument to let 16 year olds vote by declaring greens are the young people’s party of choice
Could've sworn they're your party of choice!
Because they have more radical plans for the environment and on climate change and transportation etc.So it’s because the party is called Green?
How does how attractive they look have any bearing on it?I have a choice - as i am not voting for the zombie tories or Labour (and certainly not Lib Dem) of a 21 year old female standing for reform, a pro life independent or some green woman who looks like a less attractive Theresa Coffey.
Democracy in action
How does how attractive they look have any bearing on it?
Because they have more radical plans for the environment and on climate change and transportation etc.
But you're still voting Green!It was clearly a flippant comment. The point being no one is worthy of a vote.
But you're still voting Green!
I don't see how anybody could encourage mainstream parties to adopt Reform policies and attitude by lending them their vote:I don’t see any of the minor parties really making any impact so it’s more palatable than Reform. If I really believe the polls that Reform could end up with the second highest share of the vote but at best a couple of seats I would vote for them
Haven't independent studies rubbished pretty much all the parties' figures?Which independent studies have rubbished as being totally unaffordable and fag packet calculations
Haven't independent studies rubbished pretty much all the parties' figures?
Don't think any of them are affordable.
None of them are. Labours are a little “unaffordable”, Tories next then a gap to Lib Dem then an absolute chasm to Greens and RefUK IIRC
Only if you live in a child-like world where the government budget is like that of a household. The whole debate is around an entirely false premise.Differing levels of delusion. Last two in la la land
The co leader was on question time tonight and I was extremely disappointed. Banged on about car scrappage scheme but when asked what the scrappage of a car was likely worth he said he didn't know . Yet he said their policies were fully costed .Because they have more radical plans for the environment and on climate change and transportation etc.
Only if you live in a child-like world where the government budget is like that of a household. The whole debate is around an entirely false premise.
*I’ve explained before I’ve no issue with QE/borrowing for investment but ideally it has to be tied in with growth
That’s what we’re talking about though IMO. There’s in theory a ton of low hanging fruit bringing our non-London economy to the level of an average OECD country excluding the capital. And that’s unlocked with house building (particularly in the south east and massing in the second cities), commercial building like labs around Oxbridge, and transport and energy infrastructure to bring down costs and increase the talent pool in places like Manchester and Birmingham.
All of that can be done with borrowing and the government putting in place long term building plans that embed expertise in the country. And because it’s all fairly basic stuff that we should be able to take off the peg it’s low risk and relatively quick return compared to say skills or R&D investment.
It’s a prime candidate for borrowing IMO. Govt will always borrow at better rates than the private sector and one reason things are so expensive is our lack of inbuilt talent in these areas. I think if a Labour govt said we’re going to borrow, we’re also going to reform planning to bring down costs and boost growth, we’re going to set up in legislation a long term infrastructure plan aimed at bringing down costs and getting expertise into govt, and we’re going to say reform council tax to allow the value raise from this infrastructure and planning reform to be captured, then the markets wouldn’t act like Truss 2, they’d see a tried and tested plan for growth.
I just don’t see how PFI makes any sense for this type of investment at this point in the country’s development
It doesn’t matter which party is in power. The opposition always talk of the country being in decline…Like never before…Oops American opposition crept in!Might as well be. No better than Scargill.
To me, the current govt. did a remarkable job of imploding. Truss, ‘lend me your vote’, scandals etc. they did what Labour could not. In the meantime Labour re-emerged having cleaned their drains. I’m not at all sure about Star meh.I always look for a fairer society. Or the aim of a government to create a fairer society.
Over the past 14 years, the rich have got an awful lot richer, we now have food banks and 900,000 kids have been pushed into child poverty.
The poor just keep getting poorer, while the percentage of rich people getting richer, skyrockets. That's no way to run a government.
Hoping Labour will try and rectify that in some way, but if they don't, I will be looking to another party that maybe can.
There should never be billionaires and trillionaires about, while others are starving and in poverty.
What a world we have created here.
And I always look what is best for the country, for everyone, before I look to see how it affects me personally.
I am prepared to be worse off, if it helps someone less fortunate than myself.
Not convinced on Labour here, but it's the only other option right now, in a two party system, as the Lib Dems never seem to get their act together.
I am a socialist, but do accept the world has changed. Labour had to move to the centre.
Hoping there will be something new and forward thinking in the not too distant future.
Funnily enough, amongst the people I know who are about to vote for the first ever time (so 18, 19 and 20 year olds), they are all going to vote Green.
I think Greens are really popular amongst the younger generation.
Anyway, let's make the world a better and fairer place, whoever is in power. Not holding my breath though.
My missus and I both lost parents during COVID and I can never forgive the Tories for partying whilst the rest of us locked down. I can't get beyond it even now. I'm not a labour voter because our circumstances mean we are usually worse off under labour but on this occasion I'm leaning towards them because they don't stink quite as much as the other options.To me, the current govt. did a remarkable job of imploding. Truss, ‘lend me your vote’, scandals etc. they did what Labour could not. In the meantime Labour re-emerged having cleaned their drains. I’m not at all sure about Star meh.
We have the skills in sciences, but the pay is terrible by comparison to certain other countries. It has not been valued in this country for a long time.I don’t disagree with a majority of that. I was having my, what feels like weekly, to and fro with Fernando about monetary policy theory
I wouldn’t discount Labour encouraging private investment as well though. PFI was a shitshow and as you say, governments can borrow cheaper so fuck knows what they were thinking (Labour), however, I’m all for government supporting wider projects that encourage growth and investment in the U.K. This can be done with funding and things like planning reform. You'd hope that lessons have been learned from the past/PFI.
We also agree that the country is desperately in need of some longer term industrial/infrastructure planning and strategy. The world is changing rapidly and there are opportunities around tech, financials services, energy, sciences etc (where we have the skills) that we should be grasping with both hands.
How would you feel about a govt saying they would print a large chunk of money but limited to once in a parliament for a specified investment, say enabling transferring to green energy? Compare how the effect on the currency would work out compared to borrowing and the interest that would accrue.ts nothing to do with whether it’s like a household budget, you’re the only one who keeps mentioning that. Whether you believe you need to tax people so they directly contribute towards government expenditure or do so to take money out the system as part of MMT, is kind of irrelevant to me. Both will ultimately reduce an individuals purchasing power and pretty much every country runs a massive deficit to cover expenditure these days anyway, so tax might well be an ever decreasing contribution towards expenditure anyway
I’ve gone into detail several times explaining the challenges of just printing excessive amounts for day to day government expenditure* (debasement of currency and inflation) and the fact that QE/printing usually benefits the richest. Check the loss of purchasing power over the last 20 years ie what you can buy for your £ or $
Many who follow MMT theory have in the past considered Japan as a potential example of how it might work in reality. Check their currency’s performance in recent years, it’s been fucked and they now have 260% debt to gdp. They are currently praying the Fed starts cutting rates and inflation remains suppressed, both of which are outside their direct control, otherwise they could be in trouble. The theory itself states that it relies upon stable currencies but as has been demonstrated in recent years, this is bordering on impossible to guarantee due to global issues beyond a country’s control as we live in a global world - why some people who follow the theory continue to ignore this quite important part of the theory I don’t know
*I’ve explained before I’ve no issue with QE/borrowing for investment but ideally it has to be tied in with growth
Would they have to print money? Can’t they just issue government bonds?How would you feel about a govt saying they would print a large chunk of money but limited to once in a parliament for a specified investment, say enabling transferring to green energy? Compare how the effect on the currency would work out compared to borrowing and the interest that would accrue.
I think it would have many benefits in many areas, including growth, and would be worthwhile but my fear is that money markets don't look at it like that. This is probably the only time you'll see me defend Liz Truss, but the effects on the markets weren't what had actually happened, it was what they feared would happen and made it a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I think they'd start making straw man arguments with that fear, saying "well, if they'll print money for this infrastructure today why wouldn't they print money for day-to-day spending tomorrow?" That's my issue with financial markets -although they obviously have well-trained analysts it does seem like too much of such a critical industry is based on 'feels'.
Just done 2024 General Election survey - Vote for Policies and it came out 50% LD and 50% Lab. Bit of a surprise but it does distill the main policies and there were some green ones I liked not mentioned. Only really seen Reform policies via this website (although it's blind it's pretty obvious which were theirs). basically demonisation of foreigners and the poor.I've done a manifesto analysis of the Lab/LD and Greens, who were the ones I would consider voting for, and it's confirmed my initial gut feelings.
All very close on overall ranking. Greens were top in half the policy areas, and bottom in the other half. Lab and LD were top in a quarter, bottom in a quarter and middle on half each.
So basically not really helped me with my overall decision, though I think I might end up going Lab to help retain their seat just on the remote off chance they might lose it. The others aren't going to win it and it doesn't give them any extra leverage.
*I will hopefully analyse the Tory one as well before election day to give a fair chance, but frankly it would have to be completely different to everything Sunak has been saying in his interviews and debates.
Just done 2024 General Election survey - Vote for Policies and it came out 50% LD and 50% Lab. Bit of a surprise but it does distill the main policies and there were some green ones I liked not mentioned. Only really seen Reform policies via this website (although it's blind it's pretty obvious which were theirs). basically demonisation of foreigners and the poor.
Having now done the Tory manifesto, it seems like a big culture war, mainly between old and young but also rich and poor. The immigration aspect was horrific. Needless to say it was a bottom by quite a distance.
Sorry. Didn't actually properly analyse the Reform one so wasn't including them.Tory was below reform for you?
I think the LD manifesto is a little to the left of Labour. Back to the Kennedy days!Just done 2024 General Election survey - Vote for Policies and it came out 50% LD and 50% Lab. Bit of a surprise but it does distill the main policies and there were some green ones I liked not mentioned. Only really seen Reform policies via this website (although it's blind it's pretty obvious which were theirs). basically demonisation of foreigners and the poor.
Having now done the Tory manifesto, it seems like a big culture war, mainly between old and young but also rich and poor. The immigration aspect was horrific. Needless to say it was a bottom by quite a distance.
Just need a charismatic leader then. If they get some more MPs maybe they widen their pool enough to find one.I think the LD manifesto is a little to the left of Labour. Back to the Kennedy days!
proper cnut, this one.It’s a free country CVD and I absolutely respect your decision but it might be worth listening to this guy first
44% LD, 44% Green, 12% Lab hereJust done 2024 General Election survey - Vote for Policies and it came out 50% LD and 50% Lab. Bit of a surprise but it does distill the main policies and there were some green ones I liked not mentioned. Only really seen Reform policies via this website (although it's blind it's pretty obvious which were theirs). basically demonisation of foreigners and the poor.
Having now done the Tory manifesto, it seems like a big culture war, mainly between old and young but also rich and poor. The immigration aspect was horrific. Needless to say it was a bottom by quite a distance.
Hoping to see a lot of the Tory big dogs lose their seats obviously they won’t need to use the food banks they seem so proud of though.
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