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General Election 2019 thread (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Philosoraptor
  • Start date Oct 29, 2019
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,186
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I know that's the way it is. Doesn't take away from my right to show frustration with it though.
Click to expand...
But you keep blaming the wrong party. And when the error is pointed out it isn't so bad.

It was Labour that wanted us to leave the common market. That let Maggie in.

But when Labour finally got back in they kept to their pledge of not raising tax for the first term. But once it was over everything was a target. Labour even introduced the top up fees for university students. But the Tories get the blame so it is OK.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,187
Astute said:
But you keep blaming the wrong party. And when the error is pointed out it isn't so bad.

It was Labour that wanted us to leave the common market. That let Maggie in.

But when Labour finally got back in they kept to their pledge of not raising tax for the first term. But once it was over everything was a target. Labour even introduced the top up fees for university students. But the Tories get the blame so it is OK.
Click to expand...

For a start there I wasn’t talking about the parties. The other point is that I won’t blindly defend Labour on everything they’ve ever done. But I haven’t seen you praise anything of theirs once. The truth will be somewhere in between.

Ultimately Blair was a neoliberal warmonger. He continued deregulating financial services as Maggie had started and oversaw the final dismantlings of the car industry. He also poured substantial funds into education and brought facilities back into the modern era. The global financial crisis itself was the result of right wing economics on crack and it hit everyone. But under the super Tories we recovered at a snail’s pace.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,188
skybluetony176 said:
The Tories are £2B short on their nurse recruitment pledge alone. That’s before you even get into that 19K of those “new” 50K of nurses are existing nurses so actually they’re only pledging 31K new nurses.

They’ve also omitted from their manifesto spending commitments already made whereas other parties have included them. Only the other parties have outlined plans on how they’re going to raise that money as well.
Click to expand...
But most of us don't believe any of them either. They are serial fantasists when they put these things together. So most simply vote to type anyway.
This GE is complicated with Brexit policy, but still I suspect that by the time the ballot paper is presented to them...most of those will revert to type too.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,189
Heard a wonderful new meaning for a word during this election.

Testiculate - to wave your arms around whilst talking bollocks.
 
Reactions: Otis, Astute, stupot07 and 2 others

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,190
Astute said:
I have an idea. Let's vote in a party that will spend hundreds of billions and send the debt through the roof. We could all celebrate that.

The good thing is we could always blame Brexit .
Click to expand...

Jesus christ
 
Reactions: stupot07

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,191
Astute said:
Have you been asleep?

The Tories have already got an agreement with the EU.

How about try this one.

No details of how the withdrawal agreement will be negotiated/its terms in the Labour manifesto.
Click to expand...

Apart from

Our deal will be based on the principles we have set out over the last two years.

It will include:

  • A permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union, which is vital to protect our manufacturing industry and allows the UK to benefit from joint UK-EU trade deals, and is backed by businesses and trade unions.
  • Close alignment with the Single Market – ensuring we have a strong future economic relationship with the EU that can support UK businesses.
  • Dynamic alignment on workers’ rights, consumer rights and environmental protections so that UK standards keep pace across Europe as a minimum, allowing the UK to lead the way, not fall behind.
  • Continued participation in EU agencies and funding programmes, including in such vital areas of co-operation as the environment, scientific research and culture.
  • Clear commitments on future security arrangements, including access to the European Arrest Warrant and shared databases, making people safer at home and abroad.
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: stupot07 and SBAndy

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,192
General election 2019: Labour's £58bn pledge to right WASPI 'injustice'

Spend Spend Spend, where are labour going to get all this money from???? Can't people see this county could go bankrupt with Labours crazy plans!!!

God help us if Corbyn gets in
 
Reactions: westcountry_skyblue

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,193
westcountry_skyblue said:
You socialists keep banging on about austerity but cannot make any inroads into Boris’s,The Conservatives and unionists lead in the polls.
If he was that bad you’d be heading for a landslide but it could go the other way.
What does that say about Corbyn and his socialist policies? If Corbyn was the messiah how come people seem to be rejecting him and his party.
Because If he cannot win after 10 years of so called austerity will labour ever govern again?
Click to expand...

Its because they are deluded
 
Reactions: westcountry_skyblue

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,194
SkyBlueDom26 said:
General election 2019: Labour's £58bn pledge to right WASPI 'injustice'

Spend Spend Spend, where are labour going to get all this money from???? Can't people see this county could go bankrupt with Labours crazy plans!!!

God help us if Corbyn gets in
Click to expand...

£58bn which goes directly into the pockets of consumers and then comes back to the treasury through various other taxes.

It isn't £58bn poured down a drain like Boris paying off the EU with £39bn whilst removing access to its single market.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,195
Boris Johnson's blueprint for post-Brexit Britain: Tory manifesto promises a million more homes | Daily Mail Online
 
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,196
Astute said:
Have you been asleep?

The Tories have already got an agreement with the EU.

How about try this one.

No details of how the withdrawal agreement will be negotiated/its terms in the Labour manifesto.
Click to expand...

I have been asleep and it was very pleasant thank you.

The Conservatives need a bill to pass that agreement through Parliament - fat chance of that happening whatever slim majority they may get. People do not seem to realise that, in the utopian world where we leave the EU on 31 January, we will have just 11 months to negotiate an amicable relationship. All the signs point to the notion that the EU will make things difficult the UK, and will certainly not grant her what she pleases - at least not the cloud-cuckooland suggestions that the Conservatives speak of.

Labour have not sketched out the specifics of the withdrawal agreement in their manifesto - why? Because Brexit is not the binary solution it proposes, and even in the event of a second referendum in which Brexit is the choice, Labour at least have the common sense to be realistic about negotiation times.

Educate thyself on the realism of what the Conservative Party proposes.
 
Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,197
To be fair I cannot begrudge the passion of some Brexiteers - I have to salute them for pursuing what they want. But boy, sometimes its like telling someone that the ceiling reads 'milk' and they actually look up - gullible as hell!
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,198
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Boris Johnson's blueprint for post-Brexit Britain: Tory manifesto promises a million more homes | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...

Fucking hell Dom. They promised 200,000 In their last manifesto have never built 1. Let me reiterate that, not a single 1.
They now have someone in charge with a worse track record of lying than May, so why do you believe it? I find it incredible.
 
Reactions: Ian1779, chiefdave, Otis and 1 other person

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,199
clint van damme said:
Fucking hell Dom. They promised 200,000 In their last manifesto have never built 1. Let me reiterate that, not a single 1.
They now have someone in charge with a worse track record of lying than May, so why do you believe it? I find it incredible.
Click to expand...
I only posted it onto the thread Clint
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,200
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Boris Johnson's blueprint for post-Brexit Britain: Tory manifesto promises a million more homes | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...
Imaginary homes to go with the imaginary hospitals and imaginary nurses.

The Tories have form on building promised new housing Government fails to deliver a single 'starter home' | Metro News
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,201
clint van damme said:
Fucking hell Dom. They promised 200,000 In their last manifesto have never built 1. Let me reiterate that, not a single 1.
They now have someone in charge with a worse track record of lying than May, so why do you believe it? I find it incredible.
Click to expand...

They can’t deliver anything in their manifesto without significantly increasing borrowing and/or tax. Which they apparently aren’t going to do. It’s pure fantasy.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,202
skybluetony176 said:
They can’t deliver anything in their manifesto without significantly increasing borrowing and/or tax. .
Click to expand...

Which is what Labour are also going to do isn't it?? Or is that fantasy
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,203
Brighton Sky Blue said:
For a start there I wasn’t talking about the parties. The other point is that I won’t blindly defend Labour on everything they’ve ever done. But I haven’t seen you praise anything of theirs once. The truth will be somewhere in between.
Click to expand...
Praise? Tell me what is worth praise.

You say the Tories took time to get the economy going when they took over. Correct. But if we were talking about Labour you would be pointing out and blaming the world recession that had just happened.

I said about Labour introducing the top up fees for university students. But miraculously you didn't notice. Something to do with you blaming the Tories for student fees?

There is a saying.....You can't have it both ways. Well they haven't met you.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,204
SkyBlueDom26 said:
General election 2019: Labour's £58bn pledge to right WASPI 'injustice'

Spend Spend Spend, where are labour going to get all this money from???? Can't people see this county could go bankrupt with Labours crazy plans!!!

God help us if Corbyn gets in
Click to expand...
The irony there of course is that this is money that should have already been spent and it’s now going to fall on a Labour Party to not only put right a Tory crime it’s also only the Labour Party that will deliver one of Boris’ pledges he made during his Tory leadership campaign. Lie lie lie.
 
Reactions: Ian1779

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,205
skybluetony176 said:
The irony there of course is that this is money that should have already been spent and it’s now going to fall on a Labour Party to not only put right a Tory crime it’s also only the Labour Party that will deliver one of Boris’ pledges he made during his Tory leadership campaign. Lie lie lie.
Click to expand...
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Which is what Labour are also going to do isn't it?? Or is that fantasy
Click to expand...

????
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,206
SkyBlueDom26 said:
I only posted it onto the thread Clint
Click to expand...

you did to be fair!
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,207
fernandopartridge said:
Apart from
Click to expand...
So did that help answer the question?

How will the agreement be renegotiated. Is this wrong?

Let me remind you. Because you seem to have a poor memory. The EU have said they will not renegotiate. Labour say they will renegotiate. Try answering without twisting what I say. Then you will find it harder to defend McDonnell and Corbyn.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,208
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Which is what Labour are also going to do isn't it?? Or is that fantasy
Click to expand...
Labour are going to increase borrowing and raise taxes to deliver their manifesto. Will they be able to raise enough? Who knows. But it is a fact that the gulf between reality and fantasy in the Tory manifesto is far far wider than it ever could be in the Labour manifesto for the simple reason that Labour plan to raise extra capital to deliver their manifesto whereas the Tories don’t.

Labour’s manifesto and everyone else’s for that matter also includes current commitments whereas the Tories in another slight of hand have omitted it from there’s meaning that the reality is the Tories are going to be spending way more than they are telling you simply because money is already committed. The Tory manifesto is all smoke and mirrors, at every point.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,209
Power companies transfer ownership offshore to protect against Corbyn's renationalisation | Daily Mail Online

So it begins, well done Labour! Not
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,210
SkyBlueDom26 said:
General election 2019: Labour's £58bn pledge to right WASPI 'injustice'

Spend Spend Spend, where are labour going to get all this money from???? Can't people see this county could go bankrupt with Labours crazy plans!!!

God help us if Corbyn gets in
Click to expand...
Some of us can see it. Some of us have seen it before. And those who can't see it will then have a go about austerity measures that were needed to get the finances back under control.

Saying that Labour have said about all the trees they will plant. Maybe they are money trees.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,211
fernandopartridge said:
£58bn which goes directly into the pockets of consumers and then comes back to the treasury through various other taxes.

It isn't £58bn poured down a drain like Boris paying off the EU with £39bn whilst removing access to its single market.
Click to expand...
Why not argue for what Labour did to pensions? Final salary pensions were lost because of the tax dodge. All the money lost would have gone back to the consumers. And extra tax would have been raised from extra money in pots and pensions.

But no. It is an extra 58 billion pounds that would be given away by Labour so it is OK.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,212
Astute said:
Why not argue for what Labour did to pensions? Final salary pensions were lost because of the tax dodge. All the money lost would have gone back to the consumers. And extra tax would have been raised from extra money in pots and pensions.

But no. It is an extra 58 billion pounds that would be given away by Labour so it is OK.
Click to expand...

You're beyond help
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,213
Tony Blair saying that he doesn't want Labour to get a majority!!! Says it all about Corbyn

Crazy
 
Reactions: Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,214
Walsgrave said:
I have been asleep and it was very pleasant thank you.

The Conservatives need a bill to pass that agreement through Parliament - fat chance of that happening whatever slim majority they may get. People do not seem to realise that, in the utopian world where we leave the EU on 31 January, we will have just 11 months to negotiate an amicable relationship. All the signs point to the notion that the EU will make things difficult the UK, and will certainly not grant her what she pleases - at least not the cloud-cuckooland suggestions that the Conservatives speak of.

Labour have not sketched out the specifics of the withdrawal agreement in their manifesto - why? Because Brexit is not the binary solution it proposes, and even in the event of a second referendum in which Brexit is the choice, Labour at least have the common sense to be realistic about negotiation times.

Educate thyself on the realism of what the Conservative Party proposes.
Click to expand...
Slim majority? The longer this goes on the bigger the majority. This is why I am pissed off with the way Labour are going into this GE.

So answer the one question. Labour have said they will renegotiate leaving. The EU have said no more renegotiating. So why now and change what has been said?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,215

Sneaky barstewards those Tories.

Political newspaper/flyer and when that comes through your door, like it did this morning for me, you immediately think it is a Labour leaflet, what with it in red at the top etc. and it is only the very tiniest writing at the bottom, in the footer, does it says it was published by the Conservative Party.

Not a mention anywhere else.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,216
Otis said:
View attachment 13527
Sneaky barstewards those Tories.

Political newspaper/flyer and when that comes through your door, like it did this morning for me, you immediately think it is a Labour leaflet, what with it in red at the top etc. and it is only the very tiniest writing at the bottom, in the footer, does it says it was published by the Conservative Party.

Not a mention anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Its clever I'd say
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,217
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Its clever I'd say
Click to expand...
Really?

Do they not have enough faith in their own policies and plans rather than have to try and trick everyone?

They are in government and are expecting a majority. Surely they should be full of confidence rather than having to resort to this sort of thing.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,218
Walsgrave said:
To be fair I cannot begrudge the passion of some Brexiteers - I have to salute them for pursuing what they want. But boy, sometimes its like telling someone that the ceiling reads 'milk' and they actually look up - gullible as hell!
Click to expand...
I am a remainer. But I am not falling for the bullshit. Can't you see that Labour are pledging the financial stability of the UK? Can't you see that they are pledging what can't be done in the timescale they say?

It doesn't make their manifesto look an honest one.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,219
Otis said:
Really?

Do they not have enough faith in their own policies and plans rather than have to try and trick everyone?

They are in government and are expecting a majority. Surely they should be full of confidence rather than having to resort to this sort of thing.
Click to expand...

Hardly tricking everyone is it?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,220
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Tony Blair saying that he doesn't want Labour to get a majority!!! Says it all about Corbyn

Crazy
Click to expand...

Tell Astute, Labour under Blair and Corbyn are exactly the same thing
 
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