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General Election 2019 thread (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Philosoraptor
  • Start date Oct 29, 2019
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stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,346
Interesting article about BoJo's compulsive lying and the media letting him get away with it for 'balance'


It’s not just Boris Johnson’s lying. It’s that the media let him get away with it | Peter Oborne

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,347
Grendel said:
And you have no answers
Click to expand...
I have no time, we're not all retired.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,348
Grendel said:
Yes when the state had a education system which gave opportunity to working classes

Shirley Williams and Barbara Castle ended that
Click to expand...

Was that before or after it became illegal to teach that being gay was acceptable?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,349
It’s also semantics as the school he attended is a private school now and is private purely as Shirley Williams removed its status
 
W

westcountry_skyblue

Guest
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,350
Kier Starmer will be the next labour leader early next year that’s guaranteed.
He seems sensible and looks the part.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,351
westcountry_skyblue said:
Kier Starmer will be the next labour leader early next year that’s guaranteed.
He seems sensible and looks the part.
Click to expand...
He’s the obvious choice. I just hope he doesn’t drift too far towards new labour and sticks with a socialist agenda. This country is long overdue a bout of the politics of happiness.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,352
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's because you seem to want to lumnp private and grammar schools together but hey, you're also quoting yourself, so what do I know
Click to expand...
Ffs...I acknowledged & clarified. I'm not doing it in blood for you. Grammar & Private Schools CAN be lumped together in so much as Labour want to get shut of both ultimately!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,353
skybluetony176 said:
He’s the obvious choice. I just hope he doesn’t drift too far towards new labour and sticks with a socialist agenda. This country is long overdue a bout of the politics of happiness.
Click to expand...

He will have to if the country is to have a Labour government.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,354
Grendel said:
Shows the benefit of the Grammar system doesn’t it?
Click to expand...

Yep - you get people that believe in a two tier society and that if you're not seen as 'clever' then you're worthless and free to be exploited as those that are clever see fit.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,355
skybluetony176 said:
He’s the obvious choice. I just hope he doesn’t drift too far towards new labour and sticks with a socialist agenda. This country is long overdue a bout of the politics of happiness.
Click to expand...
Do you mean false happiness? Just look at the suggestion of free Broadband. It is suggested that EU regulations on Broadband wouldn't permit it...so he would either have to let everybody down or let his remain supporters down by delivering Brexit (which he may or may not be able to do)

Now don't get me wrong...the Tories aren't any better overall on most things. My point is that there is no such thing as the 'politics of happiness'. Just of spite.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,356
Grendel said:
Not a chance. The reason we are seeing a move to private education for leaders is the comprehensive system which stifles such qualities and revels in mediocrity
Click to expand...

It doesn't stifle them - teachers actively try to encourage them where they see it but with larger class sizes and the performance measurements mean the teachers are forced into spending a disproportionate amount of time with those less capable because it's all about % of passes.

The problem with comprehensive education is it trying to ape private education and wanting everyone to succeed at the same things they perceive as most important - maths, science etc. That doesn't suit everybody but they're forced into doing it, get bored and frustrated and some therefore become disruptive, hampering those that are most capable. It also puts those kids off learning for a lifetime. Imagine if the kid that was a maths whiz with two left feet was told to put down the calculus and get outside and kick a football around for two hours every other day - he'd soon lose any desire to go to school.

As I've said before this idea needs to be knocked on the head and those that have other interests or abilities, whether they be artistic, humanities, sporting or whatever, should be encouraged to focus on those to keep their confidence and interest. They can be useful, economically active, members of society in those areas as well while also leaving those that do excel at things like maths more freedom and time with teachers to fulfil their potential.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,357
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,358
SkyblueBazza said:
Ffs...I acknowledged & clarified. I'm not doing it in blood for you. Grammar & Private Schools CAN be lumped together in so much as Labour want to get shut of both ultimately!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with grammars in the right system. We were heading that way a bit under Blair but our school system means having dedicated schools at 11, which I think is far too young. I’d rather see a middle school system with High School 14-19 and have the high schools specialise including a general academic specialisation like Grammars.

11 is far too young to siphon kids off IMO.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,359
SkyblueBazza said:
Do you mean false happiness? Just look at the suggestion of free Broadband. It is suggested that EU regulations on Broadband wouldn't permit it...so he would either have to let everybody down or let his remain supporters down by delivering Brexit (which he may or may not be able to do)

Now don't get me wrong...the Tories aren't any better overall on most things. My point is that there is no such thing as the 'politics of happiness'. Just of spite.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

There is spite on both sides. There are those on the left that want to get rid of certain privileges out of spite. Many more want to get rid of them to encourage social mobility and see all the cream rise to the top, rather than just the cream that started at the top to begin with though. There is a lot of wasted talent out there and it's largely wasted because of barriers put there by the rich and influential.

But it's just as inherent on the right. Benefit fraud is taken on as a much more important issue and enforced far more than fixing tax avoidance loopholes, despite it costing the economy a lot less. Or when voter fraud (which barely exists) is brought up and measures like bringing in proof of ID that disproportionately affects the young and immigrants are suggested (even though the evidence suggests voter fraud is actually far more prevalent on the right because they hear the unverified stories of fraud and want to 'even it up').
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,360
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Click to expand...

..by pulling your Brexit bill that passed its second reading in favour of the much longer process of a general election......
 
Reactions: chiefdave, clint van damme and Sky Blue Pete

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,361
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
..by pulling your Brexit bill that passed its second reading in favour of the much longer process of a general election......
Click to expand...

Actually Boris has done the right thing, and when he gets his majority remoaners won't be able to keep delaying and adding bills/amendments to the deal
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,362
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Actually Boris has done the right thing, and when he gets his majority remoaners won't be able to keep delaying and adding bills/amendments to the deal
Click to expand...

Ever heard of counting chickens? You may be right, but it's by no means a certainty Tories will get this massive majority.

Plus you're forgetting a big reason the process kept on being delayed was Tory rebels, inc ultra-Brexiteers like the ERG. Don't assume they will disappear after the election. If they don't get the Brexit they want they're still just as likely frustrate the process.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,363
shmmeee said:
Nothing wrong with grammars in the right system. We were heading that way a bit under Blair but our school system means having dedicated schools at 11, which I think is far too young. I’d rather see a middle school system with High School 14-19 and have the high schools specialise including a general academic specialisation like Grammars.

11 is far too young to siphon kids off IMO.
Click to expand...
The main problem with Grammars is if they get the funding at the expense of the 'lower achievers'.

There's streaming, after all, in a comprehensive system, so syphoning off still happens in that respect (or it did, at least! I am now out of date, of course!)
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,364
SkyBlueDom26 said:
remoaners
Click to expand...
Christ, I knew I shouldn't have unignored.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,365
Deleted member 5849 said:
Christ, I knew I shouldn't have unignored.
Click to expand...

Its catchy
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,366
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Its catchy
Click to expand...

Tell you what Dim when you get past using ‘remoaner’ and ‘remainiac’ I’ll stop using ConDoms-actually wait that might not be wise
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,367
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Ever heard of counting chickens? You may be right, but it's by no means a certainty Tories will get this massive majority.

Plus you're forgetting a big reason the process kept on being delayed was Tory rebels, inc ultra-Brexiteers like the ERG. Don't assume they will disappear after the election. If they don't get the Brexit they want they're still just as likely frustrate the process.
Click to expand...

It is a certainty he’s had a photo op with two pints so far, one more and the lead will go over 20
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,368
Deleted member 5849 said:
The main problem with Grammars is if they get the funding at the expense of the 'lower achievers'.

There's streaming, after all, in a comprehensive system, so syphoning off still happens in that respect (or it did, at least! I am now out of date, of course!)
Click to expand...

Streaming kids still mingle. I’m just saying we specialise at 18, I don’t see an issue with 14 personally. And if we are specialising I think a general “academic” speciality is fair enough as long as it has equal footing with vocational and arts based specialisms.

Grammars undoubtedly reduce the academic quality of student elsewhere and lower standards around them, but I’m (naively) hoping for a change in measurement where kids learning a trade are as valued as those capable of passing exams and writing essays. As for that matter is being a bit of a generalist and not really knowing which path to take.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,369
SkyblueBazza said:
Do you mean false happiness? Just look at the suggestion of free Broadband. It is suggested that EU regulations on Broadband wouldn't permit it...so he would either have to let everybody down or let his remain supporters down by delivering Brexit (which he may or may not be able to do)

Now don't get me wrong...the Tories aren't any better overall on most things. My point is that there is no such thing as the 'politics of happiness'. Just of spite.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No I mean real happiness. As measured in things like the UN world happiness report or the World well being report which the top ten of are dominated by socialist countries. False happiness would be the direction Boris is pulling us in to emulate the US, who incidentally rank 34th in the world happiness report. Give me the socialist politics of New Zealand or the Scandinavian countries over the direction Boris is taking in any day of the week and twice on Sundays, even if it means I’m not allowed to mow my lawns on a Sunday.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and chiefdave

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,370
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Yep - you get people that believe in a two tier society and that if you're not seen as 'clever' then you're worthless and free to be exploited as those that are clever see fit.
Click to expand...

Pathetic - what would you have Fred the store man running JLR you clown
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,371
Grendel said:
Pathetic - what would you have Fred the store man running JLR you clown
Click to expand...

Literally, good old socialism ey:banghead:
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,372
Grendel said:
Pathetic - what would you have Fred the store man running JLR you clown
Click to expand...
tbf, he'd have to go some to make as large a loss...
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,373
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Ever heard of counting chickens? You may be right, but it's by no means a certainty Tories will get this massive majority.

Plus you're forgetting a big reason the process kept on being delayed was Tory rebels, inc ultra-Brexiteers like the ERG. Don't assume they will disappear after the election. If they don't get the Brexit they want they're still just as likely frustrate the process.
Click to expand...
Exactly right, the Conservative candidate for Coventry South is a staunch remainer. If she wins is she suddenly going to be in favour of a hard brexit?

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the Conservatives win but Johnson loses his seat. Cue another Conservative leadership election further delaying brexit.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,374
chiefdave said:
Exactly right, the Conservative candidate for Coventry South is a staunch remainer. If she wins is she suddenly going to be in favour of a hard brexit?

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the Conservatives win but Johnson loses his seat. Cue another Conservative leadership election further delaying brexit.
Click to expand...

He won’t lose his seat and can still be PM if he did
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,375
Grendel said:
He won’t lose his seat and can still be PM if he did
Click to expand...
Baron Johnson of Balderdash?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,376
Grendel said:
He won’t lose his seat and can still be PM if he did
Click to expand...
Very controversially and it would not only require the backing of his party but also the commons, for which he would need a clear majority.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,377
Deleted member 5849 said:
Baron Johnson of Balderdash?
Click to expand...
I think I’m right in saying that when the PM has been from the Lords they were already a sitting member of the House of Lords. Boris would have to make himself a Lord first to be an unelected PM. Off course all the brexiteers will lose their shit as this was part of the problem with the EU, apparently.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and clint van damme
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,378
skybluetony176 said:
I think I’m right in saying that when the PM has been from the Lords they were already a sitting member of the House of Lords. Boris would have to make himself a Lord first to be an unelected PM. Off course all the brexiteers will lose their shit as this was part of the problem with the EU, apparently.
Click to expand...
What would happen is they'd find the safest seat possible and parachute hjim in, as per Alec Douglas-Home.

Would highlight the small flaws with our democratic system, however. Not that highlighting those seems to have any effect on this Crazy Crazy Train anyway!
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,379
18 point lead for the conservatives now

UK Elections: Fresh poll shows 18-point lead for Conservatives – GBP/USD positive
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2019
  • #2,380
skybluetony176 said:
Very controversially and it would not only require the backing of his party but also the commons, for which he would need a clear majority.
Click to expand...

Alexander's biggest problem has always been the parliamentary mob - they don't like him much.
 
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