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General Election 2019 thread (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Philosoraptor
  • Start date Oct 29, 2019
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P

PurpleBin

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 31, 2019
  • #7,806
Grendel said:
No for long term unemployed I would pay the benefits in food vouchers. If people refused after a set time to get work I’d remove luxury items and hold them in storage until they get work.

I’d force them to do voluntary work for charities while not in work and if they don’t turn up or perform badly after warnings remove the vouchers

What would you do - keep paying them for doing nothing?
Click to expand...

Not all people on benefits are scroungers Grendel.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 31, 2019
  • #7,807
fatso said:
Are you completely unaware of the tobacco master settlement agreement (to name but one law case)
Honestly Shmmeee, I really fail to grasp how you can be quite so wrong all the fucking time!!!
You do have a natural talent for it!
Click to expand...

Says the guy bringing up Leah Betts in a serious discussion on drug policy!

Here, some facts. Research study on drug harm:

 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 31, 2019
  • #7,808
Grendel said:
I’m talking about the long term unemployed who are making it a lifestyle choice.

There is zero excuse to not work and then reproduce to continue the uselessness - what’s your solution - deliver a new Plasma TV and take them down the bingo?

Jesus Christ
Click to expand...

No I'm saying treat them like individuals and human beings rather than a cattle market forcing them into doing whatever is available.

Had a young lad I worked with a number of years ago. His parents were always going on about him having a regular job and income and getting their friends to get him jobs in offices etc that he never lasted more than five minutes in because he hated it. He loved music and was a drummer in a band and his parents were always having a go at him for wasting his time on it rather than knuckling down. Last I heard he was still in the band getting the odd paid gig on weekends, has himself available as a session drummer and also teaches people the drums. Everyone had him down as a bone idle layabout. Another friend of mine just used to spend ages on his computer in his bedroom and his parents were exasperated at him being a layabout but he's now got an extremely well-paid job in IT, works long hours and he loves it.

Loads of musicians/actors/comedians have similar stories of spending years having jobs they'd get fired from after two weeks and spending lots of time on benefits because they hated them. Who'd have thought those people that do shit with YouTube channels or 'influencers' could be making money even though what they do is totally and utterly worthless? That kid on BFQOTY last week who earned a million from playing Fortnite?

There will be those who just won't want to work regardless but they're very few in number but on the whole give a person a job they love and they'll never work a day in their lives.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 31, 2019
  • #7,809
shmmeee said:
Says the guy bringing up Leah Betts in a serious discussion on drug policy!

Here, some facts. Research study on drug harm:

View attachment 13792
Click to expand...

David Nutt was the govt drug tsar that they tried to ruin the reputation of because he didn't come back with the answers they wanted isn't he?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,810
.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,811
stupot07 said:
.
Click to expand...
Not a surprise. On day 1 they were talking about none of the cabinet being on Radio 4.

They've seen what they can get away with. An entire election campaign avoiding any questioning, even hiding in a fridge at one point, yet still got voted in. They're emboldened and know there's no point risking being asked difficult questions where someone might put their foot in it.
 
Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
Reactions: Ian1779, Sick Boy, clint van damme and 1 other person

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,812
CCFCSteve said:
Have to agree with SBD and Clint on this. The current drug laws here and in a majority of the western world aren’t working. Reading an interesting book about addiction at the moment called Chasing the scream by Johann Hari. Worth a read for those interested in the subject and in particular the causes of addiction (not the substance but the mental state) and how criminalising drugs has just made the problem worse.
Click to expand...

Leaving aside the criminal aspect for a second (though read High Society by Ben Elton where the drug gangs go against a politician trying to legalise because it’ll stop their income)

There’s a moral case for me which is that drug use is almost always self medication. People have taken mind altering substances in every society throughout history, more so when their conditions are poor and mental health is bad. So by criminalising you’re punishing ill people (all while providing cash for criminals).

The other side is route into crime. I’ve taught so many teenage boys who see the dealer on their estate with his wads of cash and want some of that. See a bit of delivery as not that bad and paying well and then they’re in the gang system and it’s hard to get out. Asking kids to steal from shops/people or commit other crimes for cash is a much harder sell.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and stupot07
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,813
shmmeee said:
Leaving aside the criminal aspect for a second (though read High Society by Ben Elton where the drug gangs go against a politician trying to legalise because it’ll stop their income)

There’s a moral case for me which is that drug use is almost always self medication. People have taken mind altering substances in every society throughout history, more so when their conditions are poor and mental health is bad. So by criminalising you’re punishing ill people (all while providing cash for criminals).

The other side is route into crime. I’ve taught so many teenage boys who see the dealer on their estate with his wads of cash and want some of that. See a bit of delivery as not that bad and paying well and then they’re in the gang system and it’s hard to get out. Asking kids to steal from shops/people or commit other crimes for cash is a much harder sell.
Click to expand...

yeah, the book I mentioned is all about the underlying reasons for drug taking by a majority of addicts (not social users). Most need help, not locking up.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, shmmeee and stupot07

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,814
shmmeee said:
Says the guy bringing up Leah Betts in a serious discussion on drug policy!

Here, some facts. Research study on drug harm:

View attachment 13792
Click to expand...
So based on this we should all be taking acid and mushrooms instead of smoking weed and sniffing coke?

I’m in!
 
Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,815
LastGarrison said:
So based on this we should all be taking acid and mushrooms instead of smoking week and sniffing coke?

I’m in!
Click to expand...

Everyone should take acid at least once.
 

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,816
shmmeee said:
Everyone should take acid at least once.
Click to expand...
All joking aside, I tend to agree.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,817
LastGarrison said:
All joking aside, I tend to agree.
Click to expand...

Of all the drugs I’ve done, only acid and modafinil have had a positive impact in hindsight. MDMA cures my social anxiety and I like it but the comedowns are horrendous, weed kills my motivation and long term harms me, beer makes me fat and sick, coke is expensive and makes me a bore, cigarettes are just shit, I proposed to my ex wife on mushrooms (definitely the most expensive drug I’ve ever taken), but acid genuinely gave me a new insight on the world and modafinil got me through my Masters.

I wouldn’t do acid a lot, but I’m definitely glad I’ve done it.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2020
  • #7,818
shmmeee said:
Of all the drugs I’ve done, only acid and modafinil have had a positive impact in hindsight. MDMA cures my social anxiety and I like it but the comedowns are horrendous, weed kills my motivation and long term harms me, beer makes me fat and sick, coke is expensive and makes me a bore, cigarettes are just shit, I proposed to my ex wife on mushrooms (definitely the most expensive drug I’ve ever taken), but acid genuinely gave me a new insight on the world and modafinil got me through my Masters.

I wouldn’t do acid a lot, but I’m definitely glad I’ve done it.
Click to expand...

Shmmeee the raving pill head
 
Reactions: dutchman

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,819
shmmeee said:
Of all the drugs I’ve done, only acid and modafinil have had a positive impact in hindsight. MDMA cures my social anxiety and I like it but the comedowns are horrendous, weed kills my motivation and long term harms me, beer makes me fat and sick, coke is expensive and makes me a bore, cigarettes are just shit, I proposed to my ex wife on mushrooms (definitely the most expensive drug I’ve ever taken), but acid genuinely gave me a new insight on the world and modafinil got me through my Masters.

I wouldn’t do acid a lot, but I’m definitely glad I’ve done it.
Click to expand...

The concept of micro-dosing with psychedelics is an interesting one and I think long, long-term will become more accepted. It would probably also be far healthier than being on man made drugs as well.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,820
shmmeee said:
Of all the drugs I’ve done, only acid and modafinil have had a positive impact in hindsight. MDMA cures my social anxiety and I like it but the comedowns are horrendous, weed kills my motivation and long term harms me, beer makes me fat and sick, coke is expensive and makes me a bore, cigarettes are just shit, I proposed to my ex wife on mushrooms (definitely the most expensive drug I’ve ever taken), but acid genuinely gave me a new insight on the world and modafinil got me through my Masters.

I wouldn’t do acid a lot, but I’m definitely glad I’ve done it.
Click to expand...
Not sure if I’ve posted this on here before but a mate of mine is currently involved in trials regarding using MDMA to treat both PTSD and alcoholism.

Mushrooms definitely gave me my ‘cleanest’ trip and wasn’t always a lover of the comedowns off LSD, although it’s funny how selective memory comes in and you forget about these things as time goes by.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,821
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Shmmeee the raving pill head
Click to expand...



LastGarrison said:
Not sure if I’ve posted this on here before but a mate of mine is currently involved in trials regarding using MDMA to treat both PTSD and alcoholism.

Mushrooms definitely gave me my ‘cleanest’ trip and wasn’t always a lover of the comedowns off LSD, although it’s funny how selective memory comes in and you forget about these things as time goes by.
Click to expand...

MDMA and LSD have definitely got some interesting properties worth investigating. I heard MDMA has been used for Parkinson’s as well I think?
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,822
chiefdave said:
Not a surprise. On day 1 they were talking about none of the cabinet being on Radio 4.

They've seen what they can get away with. An entire election campaign avoiding any questioning, even hiding in a fridge at one point, yet still got voted in. They're emboldened and know there's no point risking being asked difficult questions where someone might put their foot in it.
Click to expand...

Just copying Trump’s tactics while Cummings puts on the Malcom Tucker tribute act.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,823
shmmeee said:
Leaving aside the criminal aspect for a second (though read High Society by Ben Elton where the drug gangs go against a politician trying to legalise because it’ll stop their income)

There’s a moral case for me which is that drug use is almost always self medication. People have taken mind altering substances in every society throughout history, more so when their conditions are poor and mental health is bad. So by criminalising you’re punishing ill people (all while providing cash for criminals).

The other side is route into crime. I’ve taught so many teenage boys who see the dealer on their estate with his wads of cash and want some of that. See a bit of delivery as not that bad and paying well and then they’re in the gang system and it’s hard to get out. Asking kids to steal from shops/people or commit other crimes for cash is a much harder sell.
Click to expand...

There is also the moral aspect that society ends up picking up the tab for the consequences of addiction. Mind you the same applies for fast food, fizzy pop, gambling etc
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,824
Brighton Sky Blue said:
There is also the moral aspect that society ends up picking up the tab for the consequences of addiction. Mind you the same applies for fast food, fizzy pop, gambling etc
Click to expand...

Im a big believer in sin taxes not to reduce consumption so much but to pay for the externalities. Though I expect it’d make a pint about £15. Would fund the NHS though!
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,825
shmmeee said:
Im a big believer in sin taxes not to reduce consumption so much but to pay for the externalities. Though I expect it’d make a pint about £15. Would fund the NHS though!
Click to expand...

I'm fine paying 10p more for sugary drinks since the tax proceeds are used properly. Prefer that to them changing the recipe!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2020
  • #7,826
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I'm fine paying 10p more for sugary drinks since the tax proceeds are used properly. Prefer that to them changing the recipe!
Click to expand...

Was just wondering if you could set an alcohol tax based on Police and NHS related costs the year before. Then if people can drink sensibly the cost comes down.

Probably not, but it’s be an interesting experiment.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2020
  • #7,827
This thread may aswell be named the what drugs have we took thread
 
Reactions: dutchman

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2020
  • #7,828
SkyBlueDom26 said:
This thread may aswell be named the what drugs have we took thread
Click to expand...

That gives me an idea.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2020
  • #7,829
SkyBlueDom26 said:
This thread may aswell be named the what drugs have we took thread
Click to expand...
You start.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2020
  • #7,830
Wrote up a “Rate the drugs you’ve taken” thread but though better of it on a public family forum.
 
Reactions: LastGarrison and CCFCSteve

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,831
You had one job!
A new government Town of the Year competition has backfired spectacularly after officials failed to realise that it was being launched in a place that has been a city for 19 years.
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: clint van damme

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,832
My hopes that the government might try and bring people together following the election and not just push through whatever they feel like is rapidly diminishing.

Yesterday they voted to remove rights from unaccompanied child refugees; in favour of allowing Northern Ireland's standing in the UK internal market to move out of alignment with GB; against protection for workers’ rights and against continued membership of the Erasmus education programme.

Still early days but not positive signs IMO.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,833
This made me laugh. Sums up how incompetent politicians are.

Town of the Year push falls flat after failure to realise site is a city

Town of the Year push falls flat after failure to realise site is a city

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,834
Bloody Labour nationalising things, its a disgrace.

 
Reactions: Ian1779 and stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,835
chiefdave said:
Bloody Labour nationalising things, its a disgrace.

Click to expand...
Dom will be fuming

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,836
stupot07 said:
Dom will be fuming

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Oh yeah I'm really fuming stupot
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,837
chiefdave said:
Bloody Labour nationalising things, its a disgrace.

Click to expand...
To be fair, I think a lot of the public (left and right leaning) don’t agree with the rail set up.

Most people’s issue with labours manifesto was the ideological nationalisation of other industries (even those performing ok) including the free broadband for all. Even if we’d prefer to have state owned utilities, there isn’t a pot of cash to buy back these industries. Rail is very different.

rather than see it as a negative, maybe people should acknowledge a government willing to be flexible even if it goes against their ideological grain
 
Reactions: clint van damme

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,838
chiefdave said:
Bloody Labour nationalising things, its a disgrace.

Click to expand...

Saw a Sun story on Finland or somewhere moving to a four day week. Was tweeted with a clapping emoji and full of praise. Literally less than a month ago they were screeching about Labour thinking about it would ruin the economy.

See also the difference between labour suggesting a higher minimum wage and Tories.

Tories: not the brightest.
 
Reactions: Ian1779
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,839
shmmeee said:
Saw a Sun story on Finland or somewhere moving to a four day week. Was tweeted with a clapping emoji and full of praise. Literally less than a month ago they were screeching about Labour thinking about it would ruin the economy.

See also the difference between labour suggesting a higher minimum wage and Tories.

Tories: not the brightest.
Click to expand...

See previous post Shmmeee. Very different stripping an under performing company of its franchise and paying £10s or £100s billions to utilise utilities/energy/broadband (in addition to rail)

I’ve read that Johnson is reviewing the whole rail franchise model, which I for one support
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2020
  • #7,840
shmmeee said:
Saw a Sun story on Finland or somewhere moving to a four day week. Was tweeted with a clapping emoji and full of praise. Literally less than a month ago they were screeching about Labour thinking about it would ruin the economy.

See also the difference between labour suggesting a higher minimum wage and Tories.

Tories: not the brightest.
Click to expand...

So what you’re saying is that there may have been some other motive not directly aligned with the ‘truth’

That’s certainly an interesting take....
 
Reactions: clint van damme
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