General Election 2019 thread (2 Viewers)

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

mark82 said:
Good night for:
- Tories
- The wealthy
- Scottish Independence
- Irish Nationalists

Bad night for:
- Labour
- Lib Dems
- The working class
- Brexit supporters
- Anyone who wants to see the United Kingdom to stay together.

The working class? I'd argue a large majority of people who voted tory last night like me are working class .
The working class has no affiliation with the leftie labour party.

Nick · Dec 13, 2019

Has the world ended yet?

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 13, 2019

Nick said:
Has the world ended yet?

Yes.

richnrg · Dec 13, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Yes.

spolier alert

Nick · Dec 13, 2019

I am sure through people's eyes it is this:

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
My first post in this thread.

What a disappointment this result is. I do not like Corbyn, but I don't know how people can vote for this lying, deceitful, and genuinely unpleasant Tory government.

I have voted Tory in the past, so it's not like I'm totally anti-Tory. But this particular government are scummy people.

Personally I am probably financially better off under Tory, but I would happily have paid a few hundred quid extra tax in a year to help the NHS and help those worse off than me.

The working class people in working class towns that voted Tory are incredibly stupid and/or brainwashed. The very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. They are the ones that will suffer the most under this Tory government. I do not wish harm on anyone, but those people who are working in industry and manufacturing in these industrial towns and voted Tory will suffer the consequences of their vote and they deserve it, stuff 'em.

Total horseshit

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 13, 2019

In this end this proved to be what most on here thought it would be - a Brexit election. People's opinion of Corbyn had an effect in places too but predominantly it was Brexit.

Looking at the positives...

With this majority we can now get the WA out of the way, and hopefully (assuming a lot of the new incumbents aren't ERG-esque) Alexander can ignore the more lunatic far-right and not have to pander to them in getting it done. Then at least we can finally start to see the true effect on jobs and services in this country of Brexit.

This will see the end of the momentum lunatics that have been running Labour like a mafia.

It gives Alexander so much rope to hang himself he can also truss himself up like a chicken.

Now for the bad:

Alexander is in this for the power and prestige, not the work so chances are will be letting other people do all the policy stuff etc. Given who he tends to have influence him there's a high chance we're going to see a lot of policy favouring the rich. People have given Alexander a mandate to get this WA done, but not considered that once he's done that they've given him carte blanche for 4+ years to do whatever he likes with everything else.

Going forward the fact that during this campaign the Tories campaigning strategy was basically to treat people like idiots, and it's worked spectacularly. Go low on policy detail, get a snappy slogan and then provide a lot of misinformation and assume people won't be looking to check it. And as it worked so well (and did for Trump) we're just going to see more and more unscrupulous electioneering from here on in. Integrity no longer matters - winning is all.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

The coventrian said:
Total horseshit

Spoken like a true Leaver. Well done, good debating.

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Spoken like a true Leaver. Well done, good debating.

I never voted leave actually.
Nice one for trying to pigeonhole me though.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
And ironically, it says we will be even worse off if we implement Brexit and reduce the net immigration of EEA workers to zero, which Brexiteers are so keen to do.

Are brexiteers keen for that ? Where did you get that statistic from? I want skilled workers from Europe as and when we need them, not some chancer to work in a warehouse when I can get them over here.
Or do you mean strawberry pickers ? What a national disaster awaits us on that score.

shmmeee · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Spoken like a true Leaver. Well done, good debating.

He’s got a point. All sides of liberalism/the left/remain need to knock this “oh its cos they’re all stupid/racists” stuff on the head and start listening to concerns.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Are brexiteers keen for that ? Where did you get that statistic from? I want skilled workers from Europe as and when we need them, not some chancer to work in a warehouse when I can get them over here.
Or do you mean strawberry pickers ? What a national disaster awaits us on that score.

Are Brexiteers keen to reduce immigration? Yes of course they are, that's the whole point of Brexit for many Leavers.

And those statistics are from the Government's Brexit forecasts.

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

shmmeee said:
He’s got a point. All sides of liberalism/the left/remain need to knock this “oh its cos they’re all stupid/racists” stuff on the head and start listening to concerns.

Nail on the head.
Would I vote for labour in the future? Yes I would but like many I just don't feel any affiliation with them at the moment.

Sick Boy · Dec 13, 2019

Monners said:
No excuses now for the Govt. Nobody to blame but themselves if Brexit goes badly wrong.

Also, we will see if the manifesto spending pledges are delivered.Like any Govt., they need to be held to account.

Somehow it’ll be the fault of everyone but themselves still.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

shmmeee said:
He’s got a point. All sides of liberalism/the left/remain need to knock this “oh its cos they’re all stupid/racists” stuff on the head and start listening to concerns.

Not all of them, no of course not. But a lot of them are. You only have to look at the facebook comments section of an LBC or Daily Mail article. The level of stupidity and racism is incredible.

3.5 years later and we still haven't heard any tangible benefits to Brexit.

The majority of Brexiteers voted to Leave because they don't like foreigners.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Somehow it’ll be the fault of everyone but themselves still.

Yep exactly.

Ignore the last 9 years of shit, nothing to do with us, vote for us and we'll put everything right!

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 13, 2019

There were some people as well who were being interviewed early in the morning outside the BBC who were Labour supporters but hadn't backed the party due to Corbyn, and frankly I was struggling to understand their mindset behind their decisions.

First one said the liked the Labour policies but just didn't like Corbyn, so voted Tory. If you liked those policies but not Corbyn why didn't you look at the LD's/Green's who have similar policy rather than the Tories who's policies are largely the complete opposite of those you just said you liked.

Second one said they thought he hadn't dealt with the antis-semitism in Labour and was thus implicit in allowing racism, so voted Tory. Who've also had members suspended for anti-semitism, had a candidate insult a Sikh opponent, have a long standing Islamophobic problem which had been brushed under the carpet and are led by a man who has personally used racist (as well as homophobic) language and incited racial hatred with his rhetoric.

The third one baffled me completely. They didn't trust Corbyn because of the rumours they'd heard and thought he'd put his own ego ahead of the country, so voted Tory! They voted for a leader who throughout his life has PROVEN to be untrustworthy, a liar and puts his own ambitions and ego above all else.

It was like saying "I don't like the cold, so I want to go on holiday somewhere warm" When they look at the options they can go to Benidorm, a couple of others places they're unfamiliar with but the pictures look quite similar sunny weather and Alaska. They think "I don't like Benidorm, so I'm not going there. I don't know much about these other places so I'm reluctant to go there to. So I guess I'd better go to Alaska, even though it's colder than here and that's what I'm trying to get away from".

If this is representative of the population as a whole we really do have the government we deserve and when you hear the like of JRM, Johnson and his dad say the British public are stupid, it appears they are in fact for once telling the truth.

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Not all of them, no of course not. But a lot of them are. You only have to look at the facebook comments section of an LBC or Daily Mail article. The level of stupidity and racism is incredible.

3.5 years later and we still haven't heard any tangible benefits to Brexit.

The majority of Brexiteers voted to Leave because they don't like foreigners.

And? Is there a rule somewhere saying people have to embrace foreigners?
I personally think immigration is good for the country,but I also think it should be limited to us cherry picking the best for our country. The open door policy that started with Blair needs to stop. That has had a big impact on where we are today.

Otis · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Yep exactly.

Ignore the last 9 years of shit, nothing to do with us, vote for us and we'll put everything right!

We'll burgle your house, take all your stuff and then after many years we'll come back and put some of your stuff back again.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

The coventrian said:
And? Is there a rule somewhere saying people have to embrace foreigners?
I personally think immigration is good for the country,but I also think it should be limited to us cherry picking the best for our country. The open door policy that started with Blair needs to stop. That has had a big impact on where we are today.

No there is no rule saying we should embrace foreigners, but why wouldn't we?

This idea that migrants just come to this country to leach off the British taxpayer and the NHS is a total myth.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.
Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year.

RegTheDonk · Dec 13, 2019

tisza said:
Going to be argued about for years. If he had committed to Brexit would Labour have held these northern and Midlands constituencies that seem to have cost them the election?

Think I said to shmmeee a few weeks ago - all the people I know who are traditional labour were thinking of turning blue. Had enough of the dithering and felt betrayed when they did a u turn in policy. A re-negotiated deal perhaps, but to have remain back as an option was a big U turn when they always said they would respect the ref. Case of politicians thinking they know better than the people who put them there.
If he'd committed to Brexit, all of them would have stuck by him ... not even the thought of 5% pay rises, a 4 day week, free uni places, and millions to the poor cows who couldn't retire early (without raising the question of equality, ironically) was enough to sway them....even if it would have ultimately put us into massive debt.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Otis said:
We'll burgle your house, take all your stuff and then after many years we'll come back and put some of your stuff back again.

Exactly!

You have £100 and I take £40 off you, no questions asked.

A few years later I need something from you (i.e. a vote) so I promise to give you £30.

Tory voters: Wow that's amazing, so generous of you!
Everyone else: Er, you still owe me a tenner.

fernandopartridge · Dec 13, 2019

The coventrian said:
I never voted leave actually.
Nice one for trying to pigeonhole me though.

Yeah, like the way you tried to pigeonhole 10m people that voted for Labour you plum

shmmeee · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Not all of them, no of course not. But a lot of them are. You only have to look at the facebook comments section of an LBC or Daily Mail article. The level of stupidity and racism is incredible.

3.5 years later and we still haven't heard any tangible benefits to Brexit.

The majority of Brexiteers voted to Leave because they don't like foreigners.

That may be, but you aren’t going to convince them to change by calling them names. I have good friends you’d call racist but what they’re most excited for post Brexit isn’t no foreigners, it’s good jobs. Half the country aren’t monsters, they just aren’t social justice warriors and don’t see the U.K. as having a responsibility for all and sundry while their lives aren’t great.

If we don’t act humble and listen we’ll just end up with the culture war the states has. And the right wins that every time because it’s about tickling the basest urges and dirty tricks.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 13, 2019

hill83 said:
Funniest thing about it his is the Sunderland nerds legging it about to be first. Nothing better to do the sad pricks. Never bothered me before but after all this Sunderland stuff it’s amusing.

Yep, never understood it. Accuracy, not speed.

Found Blythe Valley amusing. Brought in the guy that usually does places like Sunderland to go for the record, brought in as many counters etc as possible and ended up needing a recount! Didn't even give the first result, let alone break the record! Bet they feel a bit silly now.

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
Yeah, like the way you tried to pigeonhole 10m people that voted for Labour you plum

Quite good with the insults behind your keyboard arent you?
Plum.

richnrg · Dec 13, 2019

an expert in insults.
Professor plum

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
No there is no rule saying we should embrace foreigners, but why wouldn't we?

This idea that migrants just come to this country to leach off the British taxpayer and the NHS is a total myth.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year.

I never said they did all come here to milk us. But let's not pretend there isnt a problem though. There are some that come here and do take the piss. We've enough home grown trash already.

The coventrian · Dec 13, 2019

richnrg said:
an expert in insults.
Professor plum

I'd like to refer to him as 'c**t' but I wouldn't like to stoop to his level.....

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 13, 2019

eastwoodsdustman said:
They won’t leave the union. They can’t afford it. They should have gone when North Sea oil was booming and invested the money wisely on infrastructure for the future. That ship has sailed.

That may well be the case but the likes of Sturgeon don't care. Scottish independence is like her Brexit - it's all the fault of the British and all will be sunshine and light if they're free of it's tyranny and nobody will tell her differently. Even if Scotland left and economically went down the pan she'd refuse to believe it was due to independence and someone else was to blame, holding the country back.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Dec 13, 2019

PVA said:
Are Brexiteers keen to reduce immigration? Yes of course they are, that's the whole point of Brexit for many Leavers.

And those statistics are from the Government's Brexit forecasts.

Are you keen to increase immigration ? Of course you are. That's the whole point of remain for many of those who voted remain.
Seriously, is there anyone, remain of leave, who actually wants to increase immigration ?

mark82 · Dec 13, 2019

The coventrian said:
The working class? I'd argue a large majority of people who voted tory last night like me are working class .
The working class has no affiliation with the leftie labour party.

Yep, a lot of working class people voted Conservative, but a conservative government is generally bad for those on lower incomes in particular. Just because people voted for them doesn't mean it'll be good for them.

PVA · Dec 13, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Are you keen to increase immigration ? Of course you are. That's the whole point of remain for many of those who voted remain.

No I'm not and no it's not.

I'm quite happy with immigration how it is. I've just proved how immigration is massively beneficial to the country.

Imagine how shit the NHS would be without immigrants.

rob9872 · Dec 13, 2019

I think it's widely accepted now that immigration is a good thing. Mass uncontrolled immigration for a small country without enough housing infrastructure and skilled jobs available for the current population level isn't.

In the short term take people who can help eg the NHS, but unskilled migrant workers being brought in to do the low paid jobs that too many lazy brits wont do because they somehow think it beneath them doesn't cure any problems.

I'm working class and Labour doesn't speak for me. Forget all the Corbyn tripe, their current ideology of welcoming all at any expense and offering too many free handouts will never sit well with the vast majority of us who do work and aspire to do better things to improve our situation.

I'd start by making people earn their benefits. If you receive £150 p/w for doing nothing, who wants a 40 hour week to take home £200? Make them earn the first £150 doing those low paid low skilled jobs and they'll snap your hands off for that extra £50.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 13, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Boris can because he has the majority and they voted to stay in the UK! No more referendums just accept the result

But there has been a material change. When the indy ref was done Cameron told the Scots the best way to ensure they stayed in the EU was to remain part of the UK. That will no longer be true, so it can be argued the question can be asked again.

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