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General Election 2019 thread (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Philosoraptor
  • Start date Oct 29, 2019
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,146
shmmeee said:
personal. Debt. Is. Not. Like. National. Debt.

Also LOL at “77%” as if you’ve got a figure that exact.
Click to expand...
So you know better than the world bank?

Long term debt is the point.

Ah America. The place they can afford to look after their own people as you like to keep showing us.........

So what you are saying is you think we can look after people here and have our debt to GDP go shooting up as well? Currently 5% of the government budget.. 48 billion a year goes on interest payments. How high would you like this to go?
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,147
Astute said:
OK. How about your take on government debt? Is it good that 5% of the whole budget goes on interest alone on the present debt?

Is it good that we stand at 81% of GDP when the internationally recognised amount manageable is 77% and Labour have promised to spend hundreds of billions?

What do you know to show the experts wrong? Found this for you.

What the Debt-to-GDP Ratio Tells Us

Will put a paragraph of it here for you so you can see it.

A study by the World Bank found that countries whose debt-to-GDP ratios exceeds 77% for prolonged periods, experience significant slowdowns in economic growth. Pointedly: every percentage point of debt above this level costs countries 1.7% in economic growth. This phenomenon is even more pronounced in emerging markets, where each additional percentage point of debt over 64%, annually slows growth by 2%.
Click to expand...

Latest figures available in June 2019 (as per the ONS) show us to actually be at 84% debt-to-GDP ratio. Why is it you’re acting as though the Tories haven’t announced spending plans of their own? Since 2010 they’ve seen government borrowing increase from around 60% to 84%, all the while slashing budgets all over the shop, and this is the party you keep telling us are financially responsible and clean up after Labour. It’s bullshit, frankly.
 
Reactions: stupot07

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,148
SkyBlueDom26 said:

Fair play Boris, dunno how many more times he needs to say it
Click to expand...
It's semantics.
 
Reactions: stupot07

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,149
SBAndy said:
Latest figures available in June 2019 (as per the ONS) show us to actually be at 84% debt-to-GDP ratio. Why is it you’re acting as though the Tories haven’t announced spending plans of their own? Since 2010 they’ve seen government borrowing increase from around 60% to 84%, all the while slashing budgets all over the shop, and this is the party you keep telling us are financially responsible and clean up after Labour. It’s bullshit, frankly.
Click to expand...
Can you remind me what kind if economy did the Tories take over? What would the national debt be like if there hadn't been cuts? And before you start I don't agree with all the cuts.

So the spending plans of Labour are sensible?

The Tories are full of shit. They have to offer a carrot. Labour have offered much more. Even free internet for the rich. Labour have offered so much that the experts in each field they have plans for gave said it can't be done in the timescale given. So are they being over ambitious, don't know what they are doing.....or even lying like the Tories?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,150
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Whatever gets the pork pies to America fastest!!!!
Click to expand...

Well Trump and Johnson are the two biggest pork pie salesmen in the world right now.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,151
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Well Trump and Johnson are the two biggest pork pie salesmen in the world right now.
Click to expand...
They make a good pair. Neither respected or believed by the public but somehow run their countries. The world is becoming a mess.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,152
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Trustworthiness: Corbyn 48 Johnson 38
In touch with ordinary people: Corbyn 57 Johnson 29
Likeability: Corbyn 36 Johnson 55
Overall performance: Statistical tie

In other words fatty cracking off jokes matters more than honesty and relating to the average person.
Click to expand...

They could just be cracking off and their fanclubs would still vote for them!
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman and Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,153
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
They could just be cracking off and their fanclubs would still vote for them!
Click to expand...
The problem is neither of them have much opposition.

Trump....let's build a wall.

Boris....let's get Brexit done.

And people vote for them :shifty:
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,154
There are more food banks than McDonalds in the UK.

Another Tory masterclass....
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,155
Astute said:
If you go into a hospital you will see most people are not old.
Click to expand...

If you're sitting in A&E/Casualty yes. On the wards it's very different.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,156
Flying Fokker said:
Boris is a blundering, mixed up so and so....but someone is pulling his strings.
Click to expand...

Yes, a disaster capitalist who has no concern for society or public well-being, just his own bank balance.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,157
Astute said:
OK. How about your take on government debt? Is it good that 5% of the whole budget goes on interest alone on the present debt?

Is it good that we stand at 81% of GDP when the internationally recognised amount manageable is 77% and Labour have promised to spend hundreds of billions?

What do you know to show the experts wrong? Found this for you.

What the Debt-to-GDP Ratio Tells Us

Will put a paragraph of it here for you so you can see it.

A study by the World Bank found that countries whose debt-to-GDP ratios exceeds 77% for prolonged periods, experience significant slowdowns in economic growth. Pointedly: every percentage point of debt above this level costs countries 1.7% in economic growth. This phenomenon is even more pronounced in emerging markets, where each additional percentage point of debt over 64%, annually slows growth by 2%.
Click to expand...

It's the equivalent of the gearing ratio in business analysis and the acceptable level changes over time dependent on what you can borrow at and also has an upward trend due to perception and availability of debt.

In years gone by people looked upon debt in any form as a terrible thing (maybe partly due to strong religious beliefs). That has steadily changed with people accepting debt for mortgages due to the capital investment making it worthwhile but this has since skyrocketed and now people use debt to pay for everyday things and the availability has also gone through the roof, first with loans, then credit cards, then payday lenders. It used to be needing to meet your bank manager and assessing what the debt was for etc, now it's a few clicks of a button and an algorithm.

That's personal debt, but it's worth remembering that the people who benefited from this are now those in charge and their perception of debt has been altered by it so when it comes to making decisions on acceptable debt levels to GDP their going to look at it far more favourably than their forebears ever would.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,158
SkyBlueDom26 said:

Fair play Boris, dunno how many more times he needs to say it
Click to expand...

Dunno. How many times did he say there would definitely be no border in the Irish Sea or customs checks? He's still repeating 40 new hospitals and 50k new nurses even though one has been totally debunked and the other has no evidence for whatsoever. He's even mentioned the £350m on the side of the bus recently!

Judge someone by their actions, not their words. Alexander's actions show him to be a liar, so why wouldn't he be lying? Someone resigned yesterday because they "could no longer peddle half-truths". As I've said before I don't the "NHS" as a whole is up for sale, just every part of it will be on the table separately. As someone one here said I've sold the engine, wheels, brakes, steering and bodywork of the car. I HAVEN'T sold the car......
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,159
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Shame Farage isn’t doing better tbh, he’d be the best leader out of all of them....

would be a pointless vote as the polls suggest the brexit party are doing shite
Click to expand...
He’s not even standing as an mp. Populist shyster
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,160
Ian1779 said:
There are more food banks than McDonalds in the UK.

Another Tory masterclass....
Click to expand...

Good to see food standards are improving them!
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Deleted member 5849, Otis and 1 other person

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,161
fernandopartridge said:
You and the dullard who made the meme don't understand PFI (the Tory designed system).
The worst thing New Labour did was embrace PFI but they did it to appease the ridiculous right wing press obsessed with keeping public spending down, as by its nature PFI stays off the treasury balance sheet.
Click to expand...

We are looking at it with the benefit of hindsight. PFI at the time was seen as this great way of capital investment in new hospitals/schools etc. Most of the papers were firmly behind it, including our own local rag when Walsgrave was rebuilt.

It's also worth remembering that the Labour party at the time were under Blair. The left of the party at the time were opposed to it saying the private sector won't be doing this for nothing and while we're not paying for it now we will pay for it later because they'll be wanting a nice fat profit. It's also had the problem of moving the payment from capital expenditure into everyday spending so the budgets of the hospitals themselves have to take into account these payments, directly taking spending away from front-line services.
 
Reactions: Astute
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,162
Frankie Boyle’s election countdown: 'You’ll be praying they prorogue the next parliament'
 
Reactions: stupot07

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,163
Ian1779 said:
There are more food banks than McDonalds in the UK.

Another Tory masterclass....
Click to expand...
And Germany helps even more people than the UK does. So what is going on?
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,164
Astute said:
And Germany helps even more people than the UK does. So what is going on?
Click to expand...
Neoliberalism - it’s shit.
 

SeaSeeEffCee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,165
Hope none of you Tory voters have disabled kids or have any mates with disabled kids

 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,166
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It's the equivalent of the gearing ratio in business analysis and the acceptable level changes over time dependent on what you can borrow at and also has an upward trend due to perception and availability of debt.

In years gone by people looked upon debt in any form as a terrible thing (maybe partly due to strong religious beliefs). That has steadily changed with people accepting debt for mortgages due to the capital investment making it worthwhile but this has since skyrocketed and now people use debt to pay for everyday things and the availability has also gone through the roof, first with loans, then credit cards, then payday lenders. It used to be needing to meet your bank manager and assessing what the debt was for etc, now it's a few clicks of a button and an algorithm.

That's personal debt, but it's worth remembering that the people who benefited from this are now those in charge and their perception of debt has been altered by it so when it comes to making decisions on acceptable debt levels to GDP their going to look at it far more favourably than their forebears ever would.
Click to expand...
High debt isn't good for anyone or anything. As I said we are having to pay 48 billion a year in interest alone. That miney comes out of the budget that pays for everything. So £1 out of every £20 to run all services and everything else goes to paying interest. How many hospitals would 48 billion pay for?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,167
fernandopartridge said:
It's semantics.
Click to expand...
Or, as with the Labour Party...
Anti-semantics.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,168
Interesting that Labour beat the Greens
Labour 'beats other parties on climate change'
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,169
Three more Conservative candidates in trouble for anti-semitism, think thats five now not including Johnson's anit-semitic novel.
Tories investigate three candidates over alleged antisemitism
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,170
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Ah yes accusing him of being racist, typical leftie behaviour..... my dad is foreign and I’m half polish yet I still think he’s the best candidate.... just no point in voting for them sadly
Click to expand...

Never used the word racist, just he’s on the record with his views that those from Eastern Europe are of ‘lower class’
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,171
Astute said:
High debt isn't good for anyone or anything. As I said we are having to pay 48 billion a year in interest alone. That miney comes out of the budget that pays for everything. So £1 out of every £20 to run all services and everything else goes to paying interest. How many hospitals would 48 billion pay for?
Click to expand...

No it isn't, the point is that was is considered 'high debt' changes over time. Also what is an acceptable level depends on what you're spending on - if it's day-to-day spending then IMO any deficit is bad, infrastructure and investment far more acceptable and in cases of recession etc should even be encouraged to a degree..

Like getting a £10k loan for a car to help you with work rather than a £10k loan for a holiday of a lifetime.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,172
chiefdave said:
Three more Conservative candidates in trouble for anti-semitism, think thats five now not including Johnson's anit-semitic novel.
Tories investigate three candidates over alleged antisemitism
Click to expand...

Tumbleweed
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Deleted member 5849

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,173
chiefdave said:
Three more Conservative candidates in trouble for anti-semitism, think thats five now not including Johnson's anit-semitic novel.
Tories investigate three candidates over alleged antisemitism
Click to expand...
Investigate? What happened to out first bounce?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,174
Otis said:
Investigate? What happened to out first bounce?
Click to expand...

well I guess even investigating would be unique from a labour perspective
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,175
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
No it isn't, the point is that was is considered 'high debt' changes over time. Also what is an acceptable level depends on what you're spending on - if it's day-to-day spending then IMO any deficit is bad, infrastructure and investment far more acceptable and in cases of recession etc should even be encouraged to a degree..

Like getting a £10k loan for a car to help you with work rather than a £10k loan for a holiday of a lifetime.
Click to expand...
10k car loan is good?

And here you have it. Everyone has a different idea on what is good and what is bad.

My car cost me 3k. It was up for more but cash under their nose was too much to resist. Is now 11 years old. Never had a problem. Never failed an MOT. Cheap to run for the size. Could have bought a new one for about 30k though.

So what better could a 10k car do?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,176
SeaSeeEffCee said:
Hope none of you Tory voters have disabled kids or have any mates with disabled kids

Click to expand...
C*nts. That makes me so angry.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,177
Astute said:
10k car loan is good?

And here you have it. Everyone has a different idea on what is good and what is bad.

My car cost me 3k. It was up for more but cash under their nose was too much to resist. Is now 11 years old. Never had a problem. Never failed an MOT. Cheap to run for the size. Could have bought a new one for about 30k though.

So what better could a 10k car do?
Click to expand...

My car cost me £4k a decade ago and is still running, but will need replacing soon. The point was that if you're using it for work (and the type of work and if it involves a lot of journeys esp with passengers) it would still be sensible for a car to get something a bit newer and likely to last a bit longer. £10k on a car these days isn't seen as a huge amount. Maybe it was just the work I used to be in but sadly there are some who would get their first impression from the vehicle and an old car, regardless of working condition, would affect their decision as it'd be seen as a window into how well you're business is doing and thus your ability to do that job.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,178
Grendel said:
well I guess even investigating would be unique from a labour perspective
Click to expand...

Must have sore arms from all this moving of goalposts
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,179
Will this thread be locked 24 hours before the 12th so there’s no more please
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 7, 2019
  • #5,180
Mcbean said:
Will this thread be locked 24 hours before the 12th so there’s no more please
Click to expand...
Oh, you need to get the browser I have I think. What browser are you using?

With mine I can just choose to not look or follow threads and they are not compulsory reading.
 
Reactions: Astute and dutchman
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