Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So why didn't Ed Miliband get a crushing majority using that strategy?
Sorry this utter nonsense
It’s an entirely sensible strategy not to debate
This is a red line of death, you cross it you dieWill. The red lines be like Theresa May's red lines? Wobbly.
I’d expect nothing less from you.
I’m not sure from this whether you agree with Otis that it’s a sensible strategy he is a blabbering fool or you think it’s a sensible strategy as he is ahead in the polls and has more to lose than gain.
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So why didn't Ed Miliband get a crushing majority using that strategy?
Out of interest, as a (relatively!) sane poster around here, I'm interested as to why no chance whatsoever.
(I mean, you've probably said half a dozen times before, but it's a bit hard to move amongst the top level banta being thrown out elsewhere...)
Let’s see come Dec 12thNot me if you. Tired media paranoia and a refusal to accept people do not want the vision labour offer and fear for dark times ahead
Which bits not true? I'm not talking about what Labour have or haven't done I'm talking about the Conservatives. Your reply highlights the issue, instead of responding to the issues raised the response is 'but Labour'.
haha, no worries. Yeah, something just doesn’t sit well with me with the pair of them (I think McDonnell is as powerful as Corbyn in their relationship hence me referring to them together) ie I think there’s more to their plans over and above what is being proposed/declared and I also done like their past ‘relationships’/views in relation to terrorist organisations.
Theres some really good stuff in the labour manifesto (mainly looked at the budget/costings space rather than read all) like increased funds for social care, helping homeless etc. Also, I like the focus on increasing social housing etc (brutal I know but I’d be more proactively recovering social housing from those who earn over certain sums to free up more !)
However, I don’t like the ideological spending. The broadband for all, the nationalisation of all industries (rather than maybe just any that are in a real mess - I’ve mentioned the half in/half out railways for example) etc. This spending is totally uncosted and I’d want to know where it’s coming from and what the additional interest on the borrowing would be. It’s easy to offer giveaways, everyone likes to hear they will get more but who’s paying ?
Johnson gets hammered for being economical with the truth but I find Corbyn disingenuous and in some cases as bad/worse, hence him struggling last night (paying the £60bn waspi/pensions hole out of ‘reserves’ ?!!!). Even ‘NHS for sale’ evidence today doesn’t appear to be quite as it’s being revealed. Don’t get me wrong could there be more access to US firms as part of a trade deal, yes. But do I think a UK government would agree to something that would increase NHS Medicine spending by ten of billions per annum....really ?!!! We currently spend £17-18bn, Corbyn suggesting drug costs would suddenly be 5 times more in a trade deal...how would that make economic sense when we/government pays ?!!
The fact is taxes would rise for all under the labour manifesto not just those on over £80k due to these additional uncosted amounts and potential ramifications of policies (negative reaction from the rich/business if they are pushed further). They will know this.
Probably unnecessary but might relevant for some background to me/my views. I was initially bought up in a council house by my mum and at other stages in my childhood it was just me, my brother and her, so I am all for sensible welfare/state support for those that need it most. Having said that my mum worked constantly throughout our childhood so got very little extra help (our grandparents picked up the slack)
I went to a local comp and worked hard(ish). but I don’t have an issue with private schools....it might not have ended up in the manifesto but we all know what the far left members were pushing for ie their abolition. For me, it’s parents choice. I’d love all schools to be equal but they’re not, never have been, never will be. Private school parents actually save the rest of us a fortune by not having their kids further clogging up the system.
I want a fair system which is why I’m pretty much down the middle in politics as I can see benefits on both sides. Help those that need help but encourage individuals to be ambitious and do as well for themselves and their family as possible.
Bet you wished you hadn’t asked now !
ps tried to tidy this up with cutting and pasting but wasn’t working so apologies of bits appear a little out of order
haha, no worries. Yeah, something just doesn’t sit well with me with the pair of them (I think McDonnell is as powerful as Corbyn in their relationship hence me referring to them together) ie I think there’s more to their plans over and above what is being proposed/declared and I also done like their past ‘relationships’/views in relation to terrorist organisations.
Theres some really good stuff in the labour manifesto (mainly looked at the budget/costings space rather than read all) like increased funds for social care, helping homeless etc. Also, I like the focus on increasing social housing etc (brutal I know but I’d be more proactively recovering social housing from those who earn over certain sums to free up more !)
However, I don’t like the ideological spending. The broadband for all, the nationalisation of all industries (rather than maybe just any that are in a real mess - I’ve mentioned the half in/half out railways for example) etc. This spending is totally uncosted and I’d want to know where it’s coming from and what the additional interest on the borrowing would be. It’s easy to offer giveaways, everyone likes to hear they will get more but who’s paying ?
Johnson gets hammered for being economical with the truth but I find Corbyn disingenuous and in some cases as bad/worse, hence him struggling last night (paying the £60bn waspi/pensions hole out of ‘reserves’ ?!!!). Even ‘NHS for sale’ evidence today doesn’t appear to be quite as it’s being revealed. Don’t get me wrong could there be more access to US firms as part of a trade deal, yes. But do I think a UK government would agree to something that would increase NHS Medicine spending by ten of billions per annum....really ?!!! We currently spend £17-18bn, Corbyn suggesting drug costs would suddenly be 5 times more in a trade deal...how would that make economic sense when we/government pays ?!!
The fact is taxes would rise for all under the labour manifesto not just those on over £80k due to these additional uncosted amounts and potential ramifications of policies (negative reaction from the rich/business if they are pushed further). They will know this.
Probably unnecessary but might relevant for some background to me/my views. I was initially bought up in a council house by my mum and at other stages in my childhood it was just me, my brother and her, so I am all for sensible welfare/state support for those that need it most. Having said that my mum worked constantly throughout our childhood so got very little extra help (our grandparents picked up the slack)
I went to a local comp and worked hard(ish). but I don’t have an issue with private schools....it might not have ended up in the manifesto but we all know what the far left members were pushing for ie their abolition. For me, it’s parents choice. I’d love all schools to be equal but they’re not, never have been, never will be. Private school parents actually save the rest of us a fortune by not having their kids further clogging up the system.
I want a fair system which is why I’m pretty much down the middle in politics as I can see benefits on both sides. Help those that need help but encourage individuals to be ambitious and do as well for themselves and their family as possible.
Bet you wished you hadn’t asked now !
ps tried to tidy this up with cutting and pasting but wasn’t working so apologies of bits appear a little out of order
Because he is a blithering fool and presented a series of policies the uk find abhorrent the their beliefs
Curious as to what Labour could do to get you onside. You seem open to a vaguely left wing manifesto (we will agree to disagree on broadband and schools), is it just Corbyn and what you see as not being honest about tax rises? It’s received wisdom that the U.K. electorate won’t vote for any party promising to raise tax. Do you think that means we will have an ever shrinking state here?
I just want to see is head towards what the Nordic countries have done. I hate seeing what’s happened to people I care about in this economic climate and I worry about the actual climate. I find it beyond belief that people would be OK with continual decline of public services and increases in poverty but that seems to be where we are.
Genuinely thinking of emigrating, give me some hope Mr Swing Voter
Not me if you. Tired media paranoia and a refusal to accept people do not want the vision labour offer and fear for dark times ahead
Sorry mate, probably little hope coming from me I’m afraid !
If it was just the costed manifesto part I might have considered it...but it’s not.
Unfortunately we’ll have to agree to disagree on the benefits/costs of the broadband pledge and various nationalisations but ultimately I believe that these all cost and we haven’t got it so it’s either massive extra borrowing or significant tax rises (or a fair bit of both)
Who will there be to blame once we're out of the EU and the Scots and Northern Irish have gone?
Who will there be to blame once we're out of the EU and the Scots and Northern Irish have gone?
Well I can assure you there is far more chance of two of those things happening under Mr Corbyn
You would not be saying that if Corbyn was the only one not to be interviewed.It’s an entirely sensible strategy not to debate
Lefties. Always lefties.
I meant in general. 2020s either go 1960s/90s or 1930s by my reckoning. What can they do for 2025 (assuming Boris holds it together that long)?
If it was this policy minus the nationalisation and no Corbyn would that be enough?
Do we have to go back to Tory light? Is there any investment you’d consider worthwhile at this point?
Are you against all borrowing ever? Even now when it’s basically free money and inflation will reduce the cost over time?
You don't care anyway right so why bother?
You would not be saying that if Corbyn was the only one not to be interviewed.
I can’t deny the rights of the Irish under the Belfast agreement if we left the EU so that’s a process that could happen if they desire it anyway
if Scotland want to destroy their country to satisfy a mad ideological dictator like Sturgeon then I wish them well
If he was ahead in the polls I would see why he would not do it
Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!As I’ve said before, I am pretty much down the middle so labour lite or Tory lite probably suits me and is why I’ve voted for both in the past.
As I’ve said before, I am pretty much down the middle so labour lite or Tory lite probably suits me and is why I’ve voted for both in the past.
I am 100% behind investment but money has got to be spent wisely and in the right areas. For me that’s people who need it most and infrastructure projects that will help local communities and the countrys productivity (hence my earlier comments)
But unfortunately, we, like a lot of countries are massively insolvent. We also have a social care ticking time bomb, an unaffordable public sector pension deficit and a state pension system that, if people continue to live longer, is also unsustainable.
Basically we are pretty fucked so let me know where you’re emigrating to as I might have to join you !!!
Ps my one major hope is a political shake up, together with some innovative ideas and cross party agreement/work to solve some of these problems. I won’t hold my breath !
Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!
Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!
Nah Steve’s alright
Has to be better than a Con Dom.Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!
Anyone's guessWill. The red lines be like Theresa May's red lines? Wobbly.
Nobody has to do it
Well I think ducks might be less biased than a few of youCome on mate. At some point once it’s walked like a duck and talked like a duck, you gotta stop pretending it might be a swan in disguise.
The people in charge of the Tory party have spent decades telling everyone who will listen that they’d like a private health service. When people tell you who they are, listen.
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