Future of this Football club. (7 Viewers)

chiefdave · Sep 6, 2016

Hobo said:
Whether the one in Coventry is viable or not...the opening of a pool in Birmingham is irelevant.

Not really. There's a 25m pool being built in the city centre so this pool, given its location is being built for elite swimmers. The same people the council dismissed when they wanted to close Fairfax Street, the same people the council stated it wasn't there responsibility to provide for as it wasn't for Coventry to provide a facility for the whole of the West Midlands.

If you look at existing and planned pools the catchment area is actually pretty small, this pool will only serve Coventry, Nuneaton, Leamington and Rugby. Any further than that and you're closer to another facility. How many elite swimmers do you think there are in that catchment area that need a 50m pool for training rather than a 25m pool?

Grendel · Sep 6, 2016

Hobo said:
Have they said it is Birmingham?

No they said the target is elite athletes in the uk. Birmingham are targeting the same and they've built theirs and it's on a university campus.

How many people do you think will use the 25 metre pool and water complex in fair fax street?

sbadey · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
Not really. There's a 25m pool being built in the city centre so this pool, given its location is being built for elite swimmers. The same people the council dismissed when they wanted to close Fairfax Street, the same people the council stated it wasn't there responsibility to provide for as it wasn't for Coventry to provide a facility for the whole of the West Midlands.

If you look at existing and planned pools the catchment area is actually pretty small, this pool will only serve Coventry, Nuneaton, Leamington and Rugby. Any further than that and you're closer to another facility. How many elite swimmers do you think there are in that catchment area that need a 50m pool for training rather than a 25m pool?

If anyone who swims competitively for county or above meets its very important to train in a 50m pool. Although I agree this pool will not get any real use by the general public so should it be paid for to the tune of 10 mil plus by the Coventry taxpayers?

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Warwickhunt · Sep 7, 2016

sbadey said:
If anyone who swims competitively for county or above meets its very important to train in a 50m pool. Although I agree this pool will not get any real use by the general public so should it be paid for to the tune of 10 mil plus by the Coventry taxpayers?

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How fortunate that the WASPS will benefit from the infrastructure project that goes along with building a swimming pool! God forbid they that should stump up the money from their little project it might deflect their money away from doing the surrounding area developement which was part or the deal for them getting the Ricoh on the cheap!!!!

gears87 · Sep 7, 2016

Question...couldn't Sisu have got the Ricoh on the cheap ?
But tried to get it for nothing...........and failed

Fergusons_Beard · Sep 7, 2016

gears87 said:
Question...couldn't Sisu have got the Ricoh on the cheap ?
But tried to get it for nothing...........and failed

Er they did get it on the cheap......

It went in off Ferguson's beard....

italiahorse · Sep 7, 2016

gears87 said:
Question...couldn't Sisu have got the Ricoh on the cheap ?
But tried to get it for nothing...........and failed

They certainly could have had the Ricoh cheaper than building a stadium half it's size.
I'm sure the lease could also have been extended effectively to make it our own.
Wasps got it at the market value at the time, a value that Sisu created by moving us out.

SkyblueBazza · Sep 7, 2016

Grendel said:
No they said the target is elite athletes in the uk. Birmingham are targeting the same and they've built theirs and it's on a university campus.

Birmingham will be hoping to attract elite level swimmers to study at their University. Coventry AND Birmingham Uni likely to be attracting higher level & elite level competitions. They bring income most of the year round to the City. Our Academy is only a money earner for (allegedly) the football club.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

chiefdave · Sep 7, 2016

sbadey said:
If anyone who swims competitively for county or above meets its very important to train in a 50m pool. Although I agree this pool will not get any real use by the general public so should it be paid for to the tune of 10 mil plus by the Coventry taxpayers?

But when the council claimed we didn't need a 50m pool Maton was on the radio saying there were Team GB Olympic swimmers who trained in 25m pools.

How many top level swimmers do we have? The British Swimming website shows 32 in the whole of Britain.

Of course its great to have the best facilities possible but is this going to apply across other sports or just ones where the provision of the facility will benefit Wasps?

chiefdave · Sep 7, 2016

gears87 said:
Question...couldn't Sisu have got the Ricoh on the cheap?

The evidence would tend to suggest that no they couldn't. The council have a history, going back before SISU arrived, of not wanting to sell to the club. I have seen nothing during SISU's tenure to indicate the council had changed from that stance.

Captain Dart · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
But when the council claimed we didn't need a 50m pool Maton was on the radio saying there were Team GB Olympic swimmers who trained in 25m pools.

How many top level swimmers do we have? The British Swimming website shows 32 in the whole of Britain.

Of course its great to have the best facilities possible but is this going to apply across other sports or just ones where the provision of the facility will benefit Wasps?

Maybe a FOI to the council to get a statement of their assessment of what usage is expected is in order.

If they have no real understanding of the projected use, or it turns out most users will be Egg Chasers (as Grendul speculated) then the political nature of the project should be exposed. Why for instance are there 'rugby development' offices in this building, why is such a thing needed, there are lots of Rugby clubs with their own clubhouses.

I think the all of the councils projections on this project can and should be challenged & exposed, don't think it will change the politicians minds but it will make them squirm, I'm all for that!

Grendel · Sep 7, 2016

The council projection is pretty clear and that is that the swimming pool will lose a significant amount of money each year.

What they claim is they this will in fact be subsidised by profits from fair fax street. They have based this on a business model of around £1.5 million customers going there each year.

Projected costs of fair fax I believe from memory were estimated at £36 million. The pool at Higgs £20 million. The council contribution for both will be significant.

What I can never recall is reference made to the fact an Olympic pool would already be available in the neighbouring city and the impact that would have.

It's absurd to have a normal sized pool in the city and another at a site that's a couple of miles away in a suburb.

Evo1883 · Sep 7, 2016

Answer to the title , liquidation within 5 years

SkyblueBazza · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
But when the council claimed we didn't need a 50m pool Maton was on the radio saying there were Team GB Olympic swimmers who trained in 25m pools.

How many top level swimmers do we have?

Questions for me are how many did we have 10yrs ago when there were far fewer than 32? And how many will we have in 10yrs time from having them?

...onwards & upwards PUSB

chiefdave · Sep 7, 2016

SkyblueBazza said:
Questions for me are how many did we have 10yrs ago when there were far fewer than 32? And how many will we have in 10yrs time from having them?

I have no idea where you would get those figures but a bit of googling shows the number of swimmers in general and in particular elite swimmers is dropping. Sport England also say that for all but those at the very top of the sport there is no need for a 50m facility, 25m is fine. You can also find plenty of elite and Olympic swimmers who train in 25m pools.

One of the biggest concerns seems to be council shutting public pools and replacing them with pools that are for restricted public use, seems that could be what is happening here. Would anyone be surprised if the pool is closed off for use by Wasps?

sbadey · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
But when the council claimed we didn't need a 50m pool Maton was on the radio saying there were Team GB Olympic swimmers who trained in 25m pools.

How many top level swimmers do we have? The British Swimming website shows 32 in the whole of Britain.

Of course its great to have the best facilities possible but is this going to apply across other sports or just ones where the provision of the facility will benefit Wasps?

Here your points CD, maton was blowing hot air I'm afraid as international class swimmers only do fitness training in a 25m pool. To achieve competetive fulfilment its essentitial they train in a 50m pool. I'm not in anyway for this pool at the higgs centre as the Birmingham uni facility will be by far the better option imho. The intended pool at higgs will bleed vast amounts of taxpayers money over many years to come and it should be challenged properly at government level, our council time and time again spends our council tax money like an adolecent teenager on alco pops

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Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2016

Grendel said:
The council projection is pretty clear and that is that the swimming pool will lose a significant amount of money each year.

What they claim is they this will in fact be subsidised by profits from fair fax street. They have based this on a business model of around £1.5 million customers going there each year.

Projected costs of fair fax I believe from memory were estimated at £36 million. The pool at Higgs £20 million. The council contribution for both will be significant.

What I can never recall is reference made to the fact an Olympic pool would already be available in the neighbouring city and the impact that would have.

It's absurd to have a normal sized pool in the city and another at a site that's a couple of miles away in a suburb.

Where do you get Fairfax Street from,you keep mentioning it.

Grendel · Sep 7, 2016

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Where do you get Fairfax Street from,you keep mentioning it.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/new-50-metre-swimming-pool-11750967

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2016

Grendel said:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/new-50-metre-swimming-pool-11750967

The existing 50 metre pool is in Fairfax street the new 25 metre pool will be in New Union Street

chiefdave · Sep 7, 2016

sbadey said:
international class swimmers

And that's the problem, but for those at the very top there is no need for this facility. Are we applying this same thinking to other sports? If so we don't need to worry about Higgs as the council will already have plans underway to build us a Cat 1 academy just in case the next Messi happens to live nearby.

Curiosity got the better off me so I had a look where the swimmers British Swimming class as elite are based: 6 in Loughborough, 5 in Bath, 4 in Stirling, 3 in Sheffield, 2 in Warrender, Cardiff & Millfield and then 1 in Leeds, Glasgow, Garioch, Stockport, London, Perth, Derby & Plymouth.

It doesn't stack up to me, especially with the new facility in Birmingham.

sbadey · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
And that's the problem, but for those at the very top there is no need for this facility. Are we applying this same thinking to other sports? If so we don't need to worry about Higgs as the council will already have plans underway to build us a Cat 1 academy just in case the next Messi happens to live nearby.

Curiosity got the better off me so I had a look where the swimmers British Swimming class as elite are based: 6 in Loughborough, 5 in Bath, 4 in Stirling, 3 in Sheffield, 2 in Warrender, Cardiff & Millfield and then 1 in Leeds, Glasgow, Garioch, Stockport, London, Perth, Derby & Plymouth.

It doesn't stack up to me, especially with the new facility in Birmingham.

You are looking at "elite" as in those who have already performed at the top level CD, there are hundreds of up and coming swimmers who need to train in 50m pools th achieve the sharp edge needs to become world class swimmers. The pool in birmingham will have top coaches to help them do this, higgs will have fred bloggs who won a lolly pop for winning the 2 lengh of pool race at butlins in 1979

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Grendel · Sep 7, 2016

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
The existing 50 metre pool is in Fairfax street the new 25 metre pool will be in New Union Street

Oh is it. Is it part of the £36 million complex investment - don't even know where that is.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2016

Grendel said:
Oh is it. Is it part of the £36 million complex investment - don't even know where that is.

Bottom of Hertford st is new union ste here all the estate agents are near police station

chiefdave · Sep 7, 2016

To go back to the opening post

skybluegod said:
I can honestly say for the first time in my life that as a City Fan i can't see a future for our club.

I've said a few times that history will show the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps as the biggest single event leading to our demise. Today may not be far behind.

Where do we go from here? Realistically we have no ground, and at best a crappy deal that prevents us being successful to any significant degree. We now have no academy, people can talk of meetings all they like but there's going to be nothing left for us to use. We'll have an ever decreasing budget as fans walk away and we'll have to make it stretch further as we won't have as many players coming though our system.

Really struggling to see how we get out of the mess we're in without someone coming in and basically gifting us in the region of £100m

Brylowes · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
To go back to the opening post

I've said a few times that history will show the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps as the biggest single event leading to our demise. Today may not be far behind.

Where do we go from here? Realistically we have no ground, and at best a crappy deal that prevents us being successful to any significant degree. We now have no academy, people can talk of meetings all they like but there's going to be nothing left for us to use. We'll have an ever decreasing budget as fans walk away and we'll have to make it stretch further as we won't have as many players coming though our system.

Really struggling to see how we get out of the mess we're in without someone coming in and basically gifting us in the region of £100m

We don't know the deal to stay at the Ricoh is crappy and will prevent us ever being successful,
It might be, but we don't know do we.
With regard to the academy, I honestly don't think SISU want it anymore, you can talk about the
Cash it brings in from player sales, but that's thinking long term, SISU don't do this.

Back to the stadium, if they have any plans whatsoever to take us forward they should pull the
Plug on the ridiculous legal actions. Then get round the table and get a deal that ensures the
Future of the football club they are supposed to be representing.

I won't hold my breath.

Gazolba · Sep 7, 2016

It would be far cheaper to buy or hire a luxury coach to take people to and from a pool in Birmingham than to build a pool here. How easy it is to spend other people's money!
Since Coventry had no ice-rink (not sure if they have one now or not), thousands of people used to go to the one in Solihull or the Silver Blades in Birmingham.

Captain Dart · Sep 7, 2016

Grendel said:
Oh is it. Is it part of the £36 million complex investment - don't even know where that is.

They're knocking down that monstrous housing centre building between the Central Hall and the Squirrel pub to build it.

Johnnythespider · Sep 7, 2016

Can't we just open up a 50 metre stretch of the canal for these elite swimmers, how many of the 11,000 people who signed a petition against the closure of fairfax Street will use this pool, not many I'd guess as most will be taking their kids to the new waterpark being built in town. This is a complete waste of money.

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SkyblueBazza · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
I have no idea where you would get those figures but a bit of googling shows the number of swimmers in general and in particular elite swimmers is dropping. Sport England also say that for all but those at the very top of the sport there is no need for a 50m facility, 25m is fine. You can also find plenty of elite and Olympic swimmers who train in 25m pools.

One of the biggest concerns seems to be council shutting public pools and replacing them with pools that are for restricted public use, seems that could be what is happening here. Would anyone be surprised if the pool is closed off for use by Wasps?

As long as they pay the going rate just like swimming etc clubs do to hire the facilities there should be no issues. My son's old swimming club used to hire Crawley 50m pool once a month to use the bigger pool. So about 130miles round trip for a 2hr session

...onwards & upwards PUSB

SkyblueBazza · Sep 7, 2016

chiefdave said:
And that's the problem, but for those at the very top there is no need for this facility. Are we applying this same thinking to other sports? If so we don't need to worry about Higgs as the council will already have plans underway to build us a Cat 1 academy just in case the next Messi happens to live nearby.

Curiosity got the better off me so I had a look where the swimmers British Swimming class as elite are based: 6 in Loughborough, 5 in Bath, 4 in Stirling, 3 in Sheffield, 2 in Warrender, Cardiff & Millfield and then 1 in Leeds, Glasgow, Garioch, Stockport, London, Perth, Derby & Plymouth.

It doesn't stack up to me, especially with the new facility in Birmingham.

Hate to say this but on that logic surely there is no need to feel so precious about our beloved Academy either?

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Hobo · Sep 7, 2016

Gazolba said:
It would be far cheaper to buy or hire a luxury coach to take people to and from a pool in Birmingham than to build a pool here. How easy it is to spend other people's money!
Since Coventry had no ice-rink (not sure if they have one now or not), thousands of people used to go to the one in Solihull or the Silver Blades in Birmingham.

We have an ice hockey team, but they play on astro turf. It is SISU who skate on ice.

ccfcway · Sep 7, 2016

Captain Dart said:
They're knocking down that monstrous housing centre building next to Central Hall and the Squirrel pub to build it.

nice bit of squirrel

chiefdave · Sep 7, 2016

Gazolba said:
not sure if they have one now or not

we most certainly do

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