Freudian Slip (7 Viewers)

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

This is still on the back of my mind.

When Tim Fisher was interviewed by Shane Oconnor

I believe he said even if the rent deal gets agreed the club is still stuffed.

Am I imagining this, or is it something to be concerned about.

Are we totally focused in that this rent deal will make or break the future of CCFC.

When actually it doesn't at all?

hill83 · Feb 19, 2013

In his interview on the radio he said the rent wasn't the only issue, but the access to revenue too.

So yes, you are right.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 19, 2013

I thought his biggest faux pas was to say whoever agreed a rental deal without a stepped-rental (going down in the event of relegation) 'needed their head looking at'.

Even though SISU didn't spot this terrible, lunatic clause in their Due Diligance....

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

hill83 said:
In his interview on the radio he said the rent wasn't the only issue, but the access to revenue too.

So yes, you are right.

So it was purely that that he meant, if a deal is done for rent and the revenue we are ok.

But basically rent alone we are still stuffed?

As oppose to a slip of whatever is agreed we are stuffed.

Some have actually suggested in here that an all encompassing deal won't sort out the loses

hill83 · Feb 19, 2013

dongonzalos said:
So it was purely that that he meant, if a deal is done for rent and the revenue we are ok.

But basically rent alone we are still stuffed?

I think so. That's why Sisu are stalling (again) on agreeing a deal.

skybluegod · Feb 19, 2013

He said if we had access to car parking,food and drink,local are revenues the club will be in with a fighting chance with the new financial fair play rules unless we get revenues we are stuffed

stupot07 · Feb 19, 2013

dongonzalos said:
So it was purely that that he meant, if a deal is done for rent and the revenue we are ok.

But basically rent alone we are still stuffed?

Yep, that's what he said.

Tonylinc · Feb 19, 2013

From all that I have heard and read, I really don't know what Sisu want. Is it the stadium for free; is it the income from all the catering, car parking etc. or all of this? It seems however that given ALL of this CCFC would still not be viable.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Feb 19, 2013

skybluegod said:
He said if we had access to car parking,food and drink,local are revenues the club will be in with a fighting chance with the new financial fair play rules unless we get revenues we are stuffed

I think the FFP/other revenue issue is a bit of a smokescreen.

If that really was the issue (rather than the net cost of the stadium), it'd be easy to solve. ACL give CCFC these revenues - so now the club's turnover is increased and hence their permitted wage spend under FFP is increased - and then increase the rent by a balancing amount. Everyone is in the same net cash position, but the club has more flexibility under FFP rules.

It all comes back to the net rent - although as noted elsewhere, even getting the stadium free would not solve all the finance issues.

CJparker · Feb 19, 2013

Well the club loses something in the region of £4m per year, and the rent is "only" £1.2m per year or therabouts, so clearly removing the rent by itself will not make CCFC financially viable

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

CJparker said:
Well the club loses something in the region of £4m per year, and the rent is "only" £1.2m per year or therabouts, so clearly removing the rent by itself will not make CCFC financially viable

It will improve it massively.

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

skybluegod said:
He said if we had access to car parking,food and drink,local are revenues the club will be in with a fighting chance with the new financial fair play rules unless we get revenues we are stuffed

A fighting chance. So not 100% then.

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Feb 19, 2013

My friend tom said that he heard that we agreed a deal with ACL for 300k per season, plus we get a stake in the match=day revenue, so that would be about 225k all together, something like that anyway. According to him, everyone in SISU agreed the deal and it was ready to be signed... until the big boss said SHE (yes, SISU is ran by a woman, nothing wrong with that), wasnt happy and decided that the deal wasnt good enuff. Basically, this silly cow wants the stadium for free, cus that is a cracking deal for IMO, the best stadium outside the Prem's top 10,and my friend who works at the Ricoh said they only turned ove 400k 2 season ago when we were payin 1.2m rent, so that just shows how much ACL are helping us out, cus they will make a huge loss and will need more concerts and functions to even break even, so SISU need to grow up and accept what i believe is a [erfectly acceptable deal. Palace pay like 220k for a shithole like Selhurst Park, yes its in a good position but its still a shithile and they're top of the league above, so SISU, stfu and get that contract signed. Focus on football for once

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

dongonzalos said:
A fighting chance. So not 100% then.

Better than no chance at all. We must have the only council in England that wants to destroy it's own football club.

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

Tonylinc said:
From all that I have heard and read, I really don't know what Sisu want. Is it the stadium for free; is it the income from all the catering, car parking etc. or all of this? It seems however that given ALL of this CCFC would still not be viable.

That's what I am wondering

If they bought ACL's shares would they get all of this anyway?

Or if they get it handed to them then will they be able to buy ACL's share for a much reduced price?

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

Grendel said:
Better than no chance at all. We must have the only council in England that wants to destroy it's own football club.

You don't genuinely believe that

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
My friend tom said that he heard that we agreed a deal with ACL for 300k per season, plus we get a stake in the match=day revenue, so that would be about 225k all together, something like that anyway. According to him, everyone in SISU agreed the deal and it was ready to be signed... until the big boss said SHE (yes, SISU is ran by a woman, nothing wrong with that), wasnt happy and decided that the deal wasnt good enuff. Basically, this silly cow wants the stadium for free, cus that is a cracking deal for IMO, the best stadium outside the Prem's top 10,and my friend who works at the Ricoh said they only turned ove 400k 2 season ago when we were payin 1.2m rent, so that just shows how much ACL are helping us out, cus they will make a huge loss and will need more concerts and functions to even break even, so SISU need to grow up and accept what i believe is a [erfectly acceptable deal. Palace pay like 220k for a shithole like Selhurst Park, yes its in a good position but its still a shithile and they're top of the league above, so SISU, stfu and get that contract signed. Focus on football for once

I think you and "Tom" need to make up another story that has an ounce of credibility.

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

dongonzalos said:
You don't genuinely believe that

Their actions over the last and years and failure to address these actions make that a logical conclusion.

CJparker · Feb 19, 2013

Grendel said:
Their actions over the last and years and failure to address these actions make that a logical conclusion.

Trolling again eh?

Your argument here is that the council has an obligation to financially subsidise the football club. Everyone knows that is bullshit.

It's happened elsewhere, so what? I don't want a taxpayer-funded council subsidizing an organisation wholly run by a Mayfair hedge fund. You and other speak like we are morally entitled to a free ground, peppercorn rent etc. Face it, we're not.

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

Also if ACL hand the rights over.

Then SISU's fighting chance doesn't pan out as they hope.

The club are stuffed as Tim says what happens to the rights for the income streams that have been given to SISU for free?

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

Grendel said:
Their actions over the last and years and failure to address these actions make that a logical conclusion.

I can't accept that one

What do you think would have happened if the council were a private entity?

lordsummerisle · Feb 19, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
I thought his biggest faux pas was to say whoever agreed a rental deal without a stepped-rental (going down in the event of relegation) 'needed their head looking at'.

Even though SISU didn't spot this terrible, lunatic clause in their Due Diligance....

You'd have thought that somebody who was Chairman at the time of the take-over, who had been on the board at the time the deal wasdone, might have mentioned it to the incoming Chairman who was the fromt-man of the take-over, especially as he then also had a place on the new board?

Still, I think that Elliott and Ranson would be ideal to take-over from Sisu with Hoffman(who as a top,top banker, forensically checked the contract on joining the board and over the next three years on the board set the ball rolling early on negotiations with ACL to reset the rent levels to a more acceptable rate).

lordsummerisle · Feb 19, 2013

CJparker said:
Trolling again eh?

Your argument here is that the council has an obligation to financially subsidise the football club. Everyone knows that is bullshit.

It's happened elsewhere, so what? I don't want a taxpayer-funded council subsidizing an organisation wholly run by a Mayfair hedge fund. You and other speak like we are morally entitled to a free ground, peppercorn rent etc. Face it, we're not.

Didn't you want a taxpayer-funded council to take over the club and put Chris Coleman in charge yesterday?

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

CJparker said:
Trolling again eh?

Your argument here is that the council has an obligation to financially subsidise the football club. Everyone knows that is bullshit.

It's happened elsewhere, so what? I don't want a taxpayer-funded council subsidizing an organisation wholly run by a Mayfair hedge fund. You and other speak like we are morally entitled to a free ground, peppercorn rent etc. Face it, we're not.

Sorry but you clearly the troll whose sole purpose is to destabilise the club and have already stated you would rather the club go out of business rather than impact ACL.

Strangely you were not too questioning when the council effectively bailed out ACL by buying the commercial loan and making payment agreements any commercial organisation would not sanction, why, because they are incas oboe of paying the bills.

The only reason they have ever been sustainable is by charging a bloated obscene rent whilst at the same time denying desperately needed income.

You are the only person in this whole forum who thinks the rent at its previous levels is fair. That says it all as to where your true interests and motivation lies.

CJparker · Feb 19, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Didn't you want a taxpayer-funded council to take over the club and put Chris Coleman in charge yesterday?

No, but I said I would accept that state of affairs as an interim measure, certainly it would be infinitely preferable to the status quo. It would actually be an easy way of getting CCFC and the Ricoh into a single stable.

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2013

Grendel said:
Their actions over the last and years and failure to address these actions make that a logical conclusion.

Also I don't believe you believe.

Every council knows the importance of a football club in their city

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

CJparker said:
No, but I said I would accept that state of affairs as an interim measure, certainly it would be infinitely preferable to the status quo. It would actually be an easy way of getting CCFC and the Ricoh into a single stable.

So you think the council should fund our losses every season. We've lost money nearly every year in the last 20. Unbelievable.

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Also I don't believe you believe.

Every council knows the importance of a football club in their city

Done demonstrate this a lot better than our council.

MFDoom · Feb 19, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
You'd have thought that somebody who was Chairman at the time of the take-over, who had been on the board at the time the deal wasdone, might have mentioned it to the incoming Chairman who was the fromt-man of the take-over, especially as he then also had a place on the new board?

Still, I think that Elliott and Ranson would be ideal to take-over from Sisu with Hoffman(who as a top,top banker, forensically checked the contract on joining the board and over the next three years on the board set the ball rolling early on negotiations with ACL to reset the rent levels to a more acceptable rate).

You seem to have a good memory lordsummerisle. I'm pretty sure that the honorable Mr Robinson and Micky McGinnity were board members of ACL's parent company along with Alan Higgs in the early days. Can't for the life of me remember the name of the parent company though so can't check. Any idea?

CJparker · Feb 19, 2013

Grendel said:
Sorry but you clearly the troll whose sole purpose is to destabilise the club and have already stated you would rather the club go out of business rather than impact ACL.

Strangely you were not too questioning when the council effectively bailed out ACL by buying the commercial loan and making payment agreements any commercial organisation would not sanction, why, because they are incas oboe of paying the bills.

The only reason they have ever been sustainable is by charging a bloated obscene rent whilst at the same time denying desperately needed income.

You are the only person in this whole forum who thinks the rent at its previous levels is fair. That says it all as to where your true interests and motivation lies.

Please show me where I said I wanted the club to go out business. We can wait and wait, because I didn't.

What I said is that I want ACL to do everything to force SISU out - CCFC will never go out of business in reality, but if ACL can force SISU out then it opens the door to better owners. That's what this whole pathetic rent saga is about.

Your attitude seems to be "fuck everyone else, I'm only interested in CCFC" - an unrealistic, pathetic, chilishk peevish attitude. You speak of ACL as if they are the unreasonable party - yesterday you admitted that you believe that the council's obligation is to provide millions of pounds in subsidy. Pathetic.

I challenge you to go to the private sector, ask someone to build you a facility for £30m and then expect to pay less than £1m a year in rent on it - you'd be laughed at, just as we laugh on you here. Just because CCC is a council does not make them a soft touch.

Why would I have any motivation in opposing CCFC? My only concern is in reason and fair play - you are more interested in supporting bullies at any cost, provided they give you what you want. Pathetic.

CJparker · Feb 19, 2013

Grendel said:
So you think the council should fund our losses every season. We've lost money nearly every year in the last 20. Unbelievable.

No, just that as a short term measure it would work a a way of getting SISU out, then selling on the club and ground as a single package.

CJparker · Feb 19, 2013

Grendel said:
So you think the council should fund our losses every season. We've lost money nearly every year in the last 20. Unbelievable.

Strange comment from the resident board troll who thinks that the council owes the club an obligation in millions of pounds in subsidy

lordsummerisle · Feb 19, 2013

MFDoom said:
You seem to have a good memory lordsummerisle. I'm pretty sure that the honorable Mr Robinson and Micky McGinnity were board members of ACL's parent company along with Alan Higgs in the early days. Can't for the life of me remember the name of the parent company though so can't check. Any idea?

Didn't know that about Robinson and McGinnity being on the board of ACL, is that right?

Huge conflict of interest there, criminally so I'd have thought, would explain a lot, but sure never heard of the link before.

Fletcher was before he joined us of course.

Grendel · Feb 19, 2013

CJparker said:
No, just that as a short term measure it would work a a way of getting SISU out, then selling on the club and ground as a single package.

Yes that's a cunning plan. I am sure the queue will be enormous. Probably just fisher and seppella.

MFDoom · Feb 19, 2013

Not ACL itself but their parent company, it was called something like Football Investments Ltd, but that's not showing anything on google. Mr Knatchbull-Hugesson took over the directorship from them at some point in 2003. I'm going to keep looking.

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