Fixation on pace (1 Viewer)

Mucca Mad Boys · Oct 31, 2012

Why do English fans (across the board) in general have a fixation on pace? It's frustrating, as I remember a certain Francis Laurent on trial under AB, pacey, skilful... No end product! Too many people on this forum think getting a winger with pace will solve our problems out wide, if you've got lots of pace, no end product, what's the point!?

IMO, when England stop focusing on pace + power, we might actually go forward as a footballing nation as we are no longer an elite team and haven't been for some time!

Astute · Oct 31, 2012

We hardly have any pace in our team. We can either pas past our opponents or use hoofball.

Spain have pace. So much they don't have nominated strikers. They all go forward with pace. They outnumber the defenders. So not the way forward?

ggrady · Oct 31, 2012

I beleive we need more pace in our play, not players.

Sub · Oct 31, 2012

david bell will be back soon to add pace to the team

Otis · Oct 31, 2012

The fixation on pace for the City has been that every team that has tore us to pieces on the break has had pace and that we hardly have any and our counter attacks aren't half as fruitful.

You ask any defender what he hates the most and way up high on the list will be attackers running at them with pace.

You need a degree of skill to go with it though.

Greggs · Oct 31, 2012

I can forgive a slight lack of pace, but the turning circle of a bus i can't

hill83 · Oct 31, 2012

People aren't saying a pacy winger with no end product will sort us out though.

CarpyCov84 · Oct 31, 2012

Pace yes but quality is what is needed more than anything we don't have that flair player like Huckerby was for Norwich when they came down - Andy Reid - Jason Koumas types of players can single handily drag teams up through the leagues at this level.Who that player is I couldn't tell you the market is weak an poor when your in the position we are in with zero funds.

fernandopartridge · Oct 31, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Why do English fans (across the board) in general have a fixation on pace? It's frustrating, as I remember a certain Francis Laurent on trial under AB, pacey, skilful... No end product! Too many people on this forum think getting a winger with pace will solve our problems out wide, if you've got lots of pace, no end product, what's the point!?

IMO, when England stop focusing on pace + power, we might actually go forward as a footballing nation as we are no longer an elite team and haven't been for some time!

We have to fixate on pace and power as we don't have the guile to play the best teams at their own games.

kg82 · Oct 31, 2012

We don't necessarilly need more pacey players, but we do need to learn to move the ball quicker. Attacking with pace scares defenders, it doesn't have to be the players that have lightning speed though.

stupot07 · Oct 31, 2012

Kg - whilst I agree with your sentiment of moving the ball quick/tempo we also need more pace to get players moving and getting up the pitch quickly to support, that require players with pace and its the blend of passing at pace and running at pace that kills teams.

skyblueinBaku · Oct 31, 2012

Speed of thought would help, too.

skyblueman · Oct 31, 2012

Pace & Ability - great to have both - nice to have one - sadly many of our players currently show no signs of having either..

Diehard Si · Oct 31, 2012

We're not Spain though. This is third tier football where pace and brawn are better than short sharp passing. It's fine on a lush cultivated Spanish pitch, but on a wet January night away at Brentford on a muddy mess its just not going to happen.

kg82 · Oct 31, 2012

stupot07 said:
Kg - whilst I agree with your sentiment of moving the ball quick/tempo we also need more pace to get players moving and getting up the pitch quickly to support, that require players with pace and its the blend of passing at pace and running at pace that kills teams.

I wouldn't disagree. I personally don't think we have the slowest players in the world... No one with huge pace though.

Paxman II · Oct 31, 2012

They are all pro footballers and if they can't run at 'pace' from time to time over 90 minutes they should not be in the side.

Too much is said of the need for pace. As what? A winger such as Ronnie Rees? The best left sided player out wide I ever saw for us was Tommy Hutchison and he did not have enormous pace - just skill.

Pace like Theo Wallcott is not always useful. If we had a team set up for a pacey winger who beats players, gets to the bye line and crosses everytime for a Neil Martin or Dion Dublin type to get on the end of then yes.
As for a bit of pace being injected into our play, then that's a different story. That just requires some intellegent midfielders who can turn a ball quickly and move the team forward. Sadly we don't have any of those do we?

Sutty · Oct 31, 2012

Quick football doesn't need fast players. Not across the board anyway.

The fastest football in Europe at the moment is played by Borussia Dortmund. With the exception of Blaszczykowski, Reus and perhaps Piszczek, none of them have electric pace. They're all quick enough but they look to be moving like lightning because they pass the ball forward quickly and directly, and then press as a unit when they lose the ball.

The only time I remember us playing at a quick pace last year was against Blackpool at home, after Gary Deegan came on at half time. We looked lethargic before half time and were a goal down. Deegan came on and started trying to play quick pass and move football. We turned the game around and would have won if not for the standard late equaliser from a set-piece. Now as we all know, Deegan was not fast, but in that game he moved the ball quickly and we looked ten times better as a result. If only he could have done that a little more often...

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 31, 2012

Southampton were promoted last year without having any lightning quick players in there team

stupot07 · Oct 31, 2012

Lallana's no slouch neither is De Prado, and when they were promoted out of this league they had Lallana and Oxlade-Chambelain.

And it's not all about raw pace, it's also about acceleration to go past a player. Fleck is very slow, Sheffers, baker and bell struggle to get past players particularly on the outside and get to the byeline, they know they aren't quick enough so cut back inside. That means there little variety and fullbacks know they won't be stretched.

Astute · Oct 31, 2012

Does anyone look forward to playing against any teams with players with pace that run straight past our defence on the counter? I prefer to play against teams like ours that don't have much pace.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 31, 2012

stupot07 said:
Lallana's no slouch neither is De Prado, and when they were promoted out of this league they had Lallana and Oxlade-Chambelain.

And it's not all about raw pace, it's also about acceleration to go past a player. Fleck is very slow, Sheffers, baker and bell struggle to get past players particularly on the outside and get to the byeline, they know they aren't quick enough so cut back inside. That means there little variety and fullbacks know they won't be stretched.

I was talking about last season when they didn't have Ox

Mcgoldrick, Sheff, Moussa, Clarke, Christie and Reckord are no slouches either. The Southampton side that we promoted last season were not much faster if any than our squad

Although I agree with your point about acceleration, often its not the speed that beats the full back but the change of speed. Matt Jarvis does this really well, if you see him one v one with the full back he will often slow the ball down to almost a walking pace and the full back then slows down to face up to him only for him to speed up him again an go past him

My point was you don't need a team of Walcotts to have a successful side

stupot07 · Oct 31, 2012

CCFC said:
I was talking about last season when they didn't have Ox

Mcgoldrick, Sheff, Moussa, Clarke, Christie and Reckord are no slouches either. The Southampton side that we promoted last season were not much faster if any than our squad

Although I agree with your point about acceleration, often its not the speed that beats the full back but the change of speed. Matt Jarvis does this really well, if you see him one v one with the full back he will often slow the ball down to almost a walking pace and the full back then slows down to face up to him only for him to speed up him again an go past him

My point was you don't need a team of Walcotts to have a successful side

That is true we don't need a team full of walcott's, but would be nice.we lack pace and acceleration, and we have done since Mifsud left - i often refer to our players as 'one-paced'. goldies quick but likes to play deep, sheff hasn't got the acceleration or pace which is why his first touch looks so poor, Moussa's played mainly as a defensive central midfielder, and the other 3 are fullbacks so attack from deep. Other than Goldie no one stretches the defense.

So when we've had a 442 with Goldie up front with ball and baker and fleck wide, there is very little attcking pace or acceleration. And because they are wide it prevents the fullbacks getting forward as much as they do in the diamond.

Sorry for waffling.

CarpyCov84 · Oct 31, 2012

CCFC said:
I was talking about last season when they didn't have Ox

Mcgoldrick, Sheff, Moussa, Clarke, Christie and Reckord are no slouches either. The Southampton side that we promoted last season were not much faster if any than our squad

Although I agree with your point about acceleration, often its not the speed that beats the full back but the change of speed. Matt Jarvis does this really well, if you see him one v one with the full back he will often slow the ball down to almost a walking pace and the full back then slows down to face up to him only for him to speed up him again an go past him

My point was you don't need a team of Walcotts to have a successful side

The problem is the Southampton side had Ricky Lambert putting 30 away with ease

Sub · Oct 31, 2012

when mifsud played for us his pace used to frighten the other team so much they would always put two players on him which in turn would free space for other players. At corners when he used to stay on the half way line two players would always mark him and if the ball was punted out he would get there first allowing us to break, he may not of always finished well or played the easy ball but it was exciting to see a player running at their defence, how we could do with a player like him now pace and excitement !!!! neither of these things can be said about CCFC now

johnwillomagic · Oct 31, 2012

Pace is a great commodity to have in the side......I remember some fairly oridniary players causing havoc......when we had Ndlovu, Gallagher, and of course......John Willo.

As much as Walcott is a bit hit and miss he can destroy teams....he took us apart second half at Arsenal.....I would love us to have a raw exciting but frustrating pacy winger in our side.....someone who gets you on your feet and who you are not entirely sure what they will do but can produce a moment of magic......nowadays we have Carl Baker!!!! Sigh!

Mucca Mad Boys · Oct 31, 2012

stupot07 said:
That is true we don't need a team full of walcott's, but would be nice.we lack pace and acceleration, and we have done since Mifsud left - i often refer to our players as 'one-paced'. goldies quick but likes to play deep, sheff hasn't got the acceleration or pace which is why his first touch looks so poor, Moussa's played mainly as a defensive central midfielder, and the other 3 are fullbacks so attack from deep. Other than Goldie no one stretches the defense.

So when we've had a 442 with Goldie up front with ball and baker and fleck wide, there is very little attcking pace or acceleration. And because they are wide it prevents the fullbacks getting forward as much as they do in the diamond.

Sorry for waffling.

Diamond didn't restrict full backs getting forward, in fact, it's. formation which encourages full backs to he forward!

I'd prob go back t the diamond, I'm a fan, not of Thorn, the diamond, Italy, AC (before Silvio fucked them over this summer), Man U use it well.

4-4-2 isn't really working, nor is Robins' 4-5-1, I'd like to see our CM packed with 2 strikers, Cody + McG.

But, we aren't going to play the diamond so 4-5-1 is as good as it's going to get.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 31, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Diamond didn't restrict full backs getting forward, in fact, it's. formation which encourages full backs to he forward!

Which is exactly what he said

cyril · Oct 31, 2012

Did someone say Sheff is no slouch?? Fuck me with have some dim fans

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 31, 2012

cyril said:
Did someone say Sheff is no slouch?? Fuck me with have some dim fans

I agree, believe it or not there was someone on here the other week who thought his boss was buying the club :claping hands:

stupot07 · Oct 31, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Diamond didn't restrict full backs getting forward, in fact, it's. formation which encourages full backs to he forward!

I'd prob go back t the diamond, I'm a fan, not of Thorn, the diamond, Italy, AC (before Silvio fecked them over this summer), Man U use it well.

4-4-2 isn't really working, nor is Robins' 4-5-1, I'd like to see our CM packed with 2 strikers, Cody + McG.

But, we aren't going to play the diamond so 4-5-1 is as good as it's going to get.

If you re-read my post o said the wide men in 442 prevent the fullback getting forward as much as they did in the diamond. 451 is probably even more restricted by lack of pace that's 442 as it really is roiling the two wide men to get up and support....we don't have the pace to do that.

Astute · Nov 1, 2012

cyril said:
Did someone say Sheff is no slouch?? feck me with have some dim fans

How ironic

Mucca Mad Boys · Nov 1, 2012

stupot07 said:
If you re-read my post o said the wide men in 442 prevent the fullback getting forward as much as they did in the diamond. 451 is probably even more restricted by lack of pace that's 442 as it really is roiling the two wide men to get up and support....we don't have the pace to do that.

I apologise, my bad! It was early ok

Still, I'd like us to move back to the diamond.

Sky Blue Kid · Nov 1, 2012

Accurate crossing of the ball is what's needed from players that are out wide.
We could have Usain Bolt on the wing, but if he can't cross a ball accurately...What's the use?

Astute · Nov 1, 2012

Sky Blue Kid said:
Accurate crossing of the ball is what's needed from players that are out wide.
We could have Usain Bolt on the wing, but if he can't cross a ball accurately...What's the use?

Fast players can be marked by a couple of players and also get free kicks in dangerous areas....and thats the average ones

stupot07 · Nov 1, 2012

Sky Blue Kid said:
Accurate crossing of the ball is what's needed from players that are out wide.
We could have Usain Bolt on the wing, but if he can't cross a ball accurately...What's the use?

Because pace worries defenders and makes them defend deep which in turn encourages the opposition to play further up the pitch which means your more on the front foot playing football in their half instead of your own. It also makes opposing fullbacks reluctant to attack and makes the winger comeback and double up so that they are more worried about defending than attacking. And even if the defenders are deep, if the winger is 1-1 he can take him on.

Fixation on pace (1 Viewer)

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