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Fisher on new stadium (8 Viewers)

  • Thread starter SkyBlue_Bear83
  • Start date Mar 8, 2015
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 9, 2015
  • #281
Deleted member 5849 said:
Given it was a no comment thanks to commercial confidentiality as to when the Ricoh deal actually expired...
Click to expand...


I was thinking of shirt sponsor rather than stadium sponsor. Although obviously that will be renewed at some point and again is arguably worth more with a top flight Rugby team as a permanent resident.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 9, 2015
  • #282
Deleted member 5849 said:
Brighton are an obvious choice!
Click to expand...

Didn't Brighton have to play outside Brighton and then at that terrible athletics place for years until a rich benefactor came along and paid for a new ground to be built?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 9, 2015
  • #283
chiefdave said:
Didn't Brighton have to play outside Brighton and then at that terrible athletics place for years until a rich benefactor came along and paid for a new ground to be built?
Click to expand...

So therefore moved from renting a ground to owning it
 

Como

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 9, 2015
  • #284
You are a property investor. What would the attraction be of developing a new ground for a third tier football club at great expense who have serious financial issues be?

They go bust, what are you going to do with your expensive stadium?
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 9, 2015
  • #285
Grendel said:
Grow up - you are embarrassing yourself. There is no deal and never will be a deal.
Click to expand...

Do you say this with the same certainty when you said that no-one other than CCFC would be interested in playing at the Ricoh?
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 9, 2015
  • #286
Godiva said:
I know there are plenty experts in shooting down ideas on this forum. But they have no influence on whether a new stadium will be build or not.
There is no evidence that the stadium will ever become a reality, but there's plenty of logical reasons why it should providing the business plan is sound.

You suggest that because there's no named investors after two years, that is evidence the stadium will not be build. It's not. Investors won't be invited until land has been identified, conditionally purchased and a prospect been drafted.

You can call it a shed, a Lego land or whatever, but it's only angry noises without foundation until plans are revealed.
Click to expand...

I know you try and come across in your posts as clever so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this.

Go to the bottom of these thread pages and see the titles of the previous threads and the dates of them. They should give you an indication of why the vast majority on this forum are experts on this particular subject. Any gullible idiot who believes different is exactly that.

You say that I suggest that because no named investors etc, that that is not evidence, I think the fact that there is absolutely no factual evidence of a new stadium, plans, land, investors, no solid discussions with councils, that RFC believes it and Fisher seems to be going backwards with what he says is evidence enough to suggest that the 'new stadium' will not be built.

You talk about investors like some dreamy Jim Morrison character saying "build it and they will come".
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #287
The Gentleman said:
Do you say this with the same certainty when you said that no-one other than CCFC would be interested in playing at the Ricoh?
Click to expand...

I think that was around the same time he was stood in the sides cheerleading as the club decided to not complete buying half of ACL and he was encouraging them push even further in not doing any deals and threatening to go to a ground share. 'SISU's tactics are good for the club'Pretty sure he told us there would not be a groundshare and no other sports club could use the Ricoh.

Any new owner of CCFC would do a deal with Wasps as it is the only economically feasible way to give CCFC a future.

The only reason we don't is because it would be good for the club but not the owners. Especially whilst their court case says the Wasps model is not viable. Why would you invest in something you claim is unviable it would completely undermine their court case.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #288
And I keep asking you but don't get a reply; why would Wasps sign some of their revenues away to us when they aren't exactly in a great position themselves?

dongonzalos said:
Any new owner of CCFC would do a deal with Wasps as it is the only economically feasible way to give CCFC a future.
.
Click to expand...
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #289
torchomatic said:
And I keep asking you but don't get a reply; why would Wasps sign some of their revenues away to us when they aren't exactly in a great position themselves?
Click to expand...

I always answer you, you just don't like the answer. That is not the same as not answering you.

If any new owner of CCFC presented Wasps with a business plan to show how CCFC were to grow and be successful. Then it would be in Wasps interests to sell. A successful CCFC increases revenues for ACL. Naming rights, marketing all income streams.It also overnight increases the value of ACL.
Yes they would lose access but they gain revenue on the remaining 50% to offset this. Also all of their deals increase.

Of course we would have to pay more for the 50% than they did. It automatically increased in value when they became anchor tenant than when they bid for it.

So you have for them

Someone to share the loan
Long term fellow anchor tenant
A successful CCFC boosting incomes and the marketability of the Ricoh.
Halve staffing costs by removing duplicated Roles.
Instant profit on their investment within 12 months

They two key factors though would be

1) trust
2) proving that CCFC would be successful
 
Last edited: Mar 10, 2015

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #290
torchomatic said:
And I keep asking you but don't get a reply; why would Wasps sign some of their revenues away to us when they aren't exactly in a great position themselves?
Click to expand...

.... because it shares the risk.
If CCFC go bust or move they will loose that income, so they might as well have 50% of profits generated by CCFC as opposed to none.
If the stadium facilities like pitch, exhibition halls, hotel rooms etc are not being used they might as well let then have them at cost and take half the profit on incomes.

It's common sense business. Surely you can see that ?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #291
Personally, I'm hoping for Wasps to fail, they fuck off back to where they came from and then the Council sees sense and does a deal with the team from their own city.

italiahorse said:
It's common sense business. Surely you can see that ?
Click to expand...
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #292
torchomatic said:
Personally, I'm hoping for Wasps to fail, they fuck off back to where they came from and then the Council sees sense and does a deal with the team from their own city.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you answered my question the other day. Is your issue with Wasos because of francising or purely because it screwed CCFC?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #293
Both really. Franchising is wrong, don't need to remind you of the anger when we moved even temporarily to Northampton. Secondly, the Council decision screwed (good choice of words) the Club as we're now between a rock and a hard place.

Ideally, for me we would have a new stadium somewhere in the City and we could leave Wasps to it. Unfornately, that's not likely to happen. So our choices are to stay where we are and play in a stadium that's even more soulless than it was before thanks to the Wasps regalia or try and build our own stadium, which will never likely ever happen. So yes, we are screwed.

Certainly not saying it's not SISUs fault, it is, they should have done a deal, but SISU aren't going to be here forever, so the 250 lease decision really is a devastating blow to the city's indigenous sports team.

And although I wish Wasps to fail, I know it won't happen, but a man can dream. Still, I'll be there tonight and I'm going on Saturday to Chesterfield so I'm not giving up any time soon.

dongonzalos said:
Not sure if you answered my question the other day. Is your issue with Wasos because of francising or purely because it screwed CCFC?
Click to expand...
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #294
dongonzalos said:
Not sure if you answered my question the other day. Is your issue with Wasos because of francising or purely because it screwed CCFC?
Click to expand...

Does Torchy answering this question help the club, or make a difference to the heap of shit the club are in, or is it just to try and be self satisfyingly smug to get one up on him?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #295
Moff said:
Does Torchy answering this question help the club, or make a difference to the heap of shit the club are in, or is it just to try and be self satisfyingly smug to get one up on him?
Click to expand...

The latter, it seemed relevant whilst he was incorrectly accusing me of avoiding questions whilst actually doing so himself.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #296
dongonzalos said:
The latter, it seemed relevant whilst he was incorrectly accusing me of avoiding questions whilst actually doing so himself.
Click to expand...

Fair enough
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #297
Deleted member 5849 said:
So therefore moved from renting a ground to owning it
Click to expand...

Indeed but we don't have a benefactor to build a new ground and to all intents and purposes write off the cost of it. If SISU do actually build a new ground they will want a return on that investment.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #298
torchomatic said:
Both really. Franchising is wrong, don't need to remind you of the anger when we moved even temporarily to Northampton. Secondly, the Council decision screwed (good choice of words) the Club as we're now between a rock and a hard place.

Ideally, for me we would have a new stadium somewhere in the City and we could leave Wasps to it. Unfornately, that's not likely to happen. So our choices are to stay where we are and play in a stadium that's even more soulless than it was before thanks to the Wasps regalia or try and build our own stadium, which will never likely ever happen. So yes, we are screwed.

Certainly not saying it's not SISUs fault, it is, they should have done a deal, but SISU aren't going to be here forever, so the 250 lease decision really is a devastating blow to the city's indigenous sports team.

And although I wish Wasps to fail, I know it won't happen, but a man can dream. Still, I'll be there tonight and I'm going on Saturday to Chesterfield so I'm not giving up any time soon.
Click to expand...

That 'Temporarily' completely alienated our fanbase. The single most destructive thing SISU have done in a long line of idiotic fuck ups ! It may have only been for 15 months in the end but we were being told 3 years with a possible extension to 5 by that twat Fisher and that was enough for thousands !
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #299
torchomatic said:
Both really. Franchising is wrong, don't need to remind you of the anger when we moved even temporarily to Northampton. Secondly, the Council decision screwed (good choice of words) the Club as we're now between a rock and a hard place.

Ideally, for me we would have a new stadium somewhere in the City and we could leave Wasps to it. Unfornately, that's not likely to happen. So our choices are to stay where we are and play in a stadium that's even more soulless than it was before thanks to the Wasps regalia or try and build our own stadium, which will never likely ever happen. So yes, we are screwed.

Certainly not saying it's not SISUs fault, it is, they should have done a deal, but SISU aren't going to be here forever, so the 250 lease decision really is a devastating blow to the city's indigenous sports team.

And although I wish Wasps to fail, I know it won't happen, but a man can dream. Still, I'll be there tonight and I'm going on Saturday to Chesterfield so I'm not giving up any time soon.
Click to expand...

I know I think it's going to be a horrible battering tonight.
Unless they become more concerned with their possible trip to Wembley
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #300
You're not going to get me disagreeing with you. I totally understand which is why I find is so bizarre how some are quite openly welcoming Wasps to Coventry. As I said though SISU won't be here forever, but unfortunately, it seems that Wasps will be. That will have more of a long term affect than a year in Northampton, IMHO.

Ashdown said:
That 'Temporarily' completely alienated our fanbase. The single most destructive thing SISU have done in a long line of idiotic fuck ups ! It may have only been for 15 months in the end but we were being told 3 years with a possible extension to 5 by that twat Fisher and that was enough for thousands !
Click to expand...
 
Last edited: Mar 10, 2015

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #301
Well, I'm hoping TM has something up his sleeve. I don't think the pitch will be an issue tonight for Bradford as they'll just play their normal game as the ball will fly over the heads of midfield straight into our box. I'm hoping Webster plays tonight.

dongonzalos said:
I know I think it's going to be a horrible battering tonight.
Unless they become more concerned with their possible trip to Wembley
Click to expand...
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #302
torchomatic said:
Personally, I'm hoping for Wasps to fail, they fuck off back to where they came from and then the Council sees sense and does a deal with the team from their own city.
Click to expand...

Most fans will be long gone when that happens.
5 years for Wasps to fail (not a given) and another 5 years while Sisu take the club to Northampton to get it for nothing.
Then we rent it back from Sisu and fight for incomes with their management company. Brilliant !!
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #303
torchomatic said:
Well, I'm hoping TM has something up his sleeve. I don't think the pitch will be an issue tonight for Bradford as they'll just play their normal game as the ball will fly over the heads of midfield straight into our box. I'm hoping Webster plays tonight.
Click to expand...

(As seen on TV) the pitch they were playing on in FA cup was seriously cut up & Stead was getting in down the right of the defence to cross from the edge of the box.. danger man!
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #304
torchomatic said:
You're not going to get me disagreeing with you. I totally understand which is why I find is so bizarre how some are quite openly welcoming Wasps to Coventry. As I said though SISU won't be here forever, but unfortunately, it seems that Wasps will be. That will have more of a long term affect than a year in Northampton, IMHO.
Click to expand...

The only reason it will have more of a long term affect is that Sisu are not getting the best long term deal for the club while Wasps are vulnerable.
Instead they continue the JR and talk about a new stadium. At what point do Wasps realise they can manage without us and leave us to get on with it when the current deal ends.
 
S

steveecov

New Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #305
Posted before; we're all living longer, but not all into our 100's.

That wonderful bloke at WBA aged 107; lovely.

But I want to be able to Shout "Play Up Sky Blues", before I'm dribbling down my blanket.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #306
italiahorse said:
5 years for Wasps to fail (not a given) and another 5 years while Sisu take the club to Northampton to get it for nothing.
Click to expand...

Where have you got those timescales from? For all we know Wasps could pack up and go in a couple of years if its clear the figures aren't stacking up.

There's lots of scenarios. In some ways that could lead to a positive outcome for us, but the downside is it leaves us in limbo. Remember ACL were struggling to break even and now have to pay higher loan repayments, I can't see anyway round that as the loan term has been reduced.

What if ACL can't meet their commitments and goes into administration? I would assume at that point the lease reverts to CCC. If ACL have defaulted on the loan and gone into admin it could be the case that we could pick up ACL for the same, or less, as Wasps paid but without the debt?

You'd be brave to bet on Wasps making this work and sticking around long term, we've seen how happy they are to move across the country when it suits.
 
S

steveecov

New Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #307
Thing that may hasten proceedings is if Worcester Warriors put up a vigorous defence to boundary changes for academies. This is what worries Wasps the most.
 
R

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #308
torchomatic said:
That will have more of a long term affect than a year in Northampton, IMHO.
Click to expand...
Why would it ? I rarely get involved in these Wasp discussions but tell me the difference in paying rent to Wasps than when we paid rent to ACL aoart from it being a cheaper deal, did paying that £1.3million a year rent give the football team access to this great so called cash cow the Ricoh Arena ? Don't get me wrong I would much prefer our football club to own the Ricoh rather than the Wasps, then who is the football club ?
 
T

Thenose

New Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #309
It's unlikely that Worcester are going to be able to stop it. Wasps are already engaged with the local clubs and have had meetings with Warwickshire RFU.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #310
If CCC had waited until SISU had left, which they will do one day, then they could have done a deal with the new owners and then the football club would be united with its own stadium in its own city. Revenue would have been ours. The stadium would have been "ours" maybe for 250 years.

rupert_bear said:
Why would it ? I rarely get involved in these Wasp discussions but tell me the difference in paying rent to Wasps than when we paid rent to ACL aoart from it being a cheaper deal, did paying that £1.3million a year rent give the football team access to this great so called cash cow the Ricoh Arena ? Don't get me wrong I would much prefer our football club to own the Ricoh rather than the Wasps, then who is the football club ?
Click to expand...
 
S

steveecov

New Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #311
Hate talking about Wasps too. But they saw an unbelievable opportunity(created in my opinion totally by SISUs unwillingness to engage with anyone), didn't dither and proceeded to engage with the owners. They must have thought all their Christmases had come at once.

Started under previous regimes, certainly; but hastened to this scenario by SISU, definitely.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #312
torchomatic said:
If CCC had waited until SISU had left, which they will do one day, then they could have done a deal with the new owners and then the football club would be united with its own stadium in its own city. Revenue would have been ours. The stadium would have been "ours" maybe for 250 years.
Click to expand...

You can't really believe that we will ever finance our own stadium ?
So, your hope is that someone will come in and buy the club then buy the stadium and give it to the club?
You expect the council to go with that ?
You really are clueless.
 
S

steveecov

New Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #313
Thenose said:
It's unlikely that Worcester are going to be able to stop it. Wasps are already engaged with the local clubs and have had meetings with Warwickshire RFU.
Click to expand...

Maybe a good legal team could help. Now who do we know, with aggressive lawyers?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #314
No, I don't believe we will ever finance our own stadium, where did I say we would? I don't think you read what I wrote properly. I said IF the Council had waited for SISU to leave then they COULD have done a deal with the NEW owners rather than give it to the first franchise to knock on their door. That would mean that CCFC (that's our team remember) would be in its rightful place rather than some team with zero affinity to the area. No need for the new stadium nonsense then.

And you call me clueless. Fuck me.

italiahorse said:
You can't really believe that we will ever finance our own stadium ?
So, your hope is that someone will come in and buy the club then buy the stadium and give it to the club?
You expect the council to go with that ?
You really are clueless.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited: Mar 10, 2015

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2015
  • #315
Thenose said:
It's unlikely that Worcester are going to be able to stop it. Wasps are already engaged with the local clubs and have had meetings with Warwickshire RFU.
Click to expand...

Not Worcetser alone, but I expect to see the Saints and Tigers step in, as surely everyones favourite franchise club (who seem to have no respect for tradition) would not settle for just talent spotting in Cov and Warks, why not head east to Leicestershire or Northants.....I think these two clubs will have a big say against this.
 
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