fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
He hates you, everybody else, life itself and quoting posts.
I love Skybluekid
Why are you not surprised I want to keep funding Wasps ?
You are Naive in your assumption that because we play there we should get 'all' related incomes yet make no contribution for providing the facilities for those incomes.
This club will do okay once we start winning again and people like yourself start attending.
The figures I have shown were for 2010 and 2011 when SISU were in charge, I have not looked at the previous 3 years of management fees since beginning of tenure. As for OSB58's statement. His findings are for when OTIUM took charge and NOT before. Am I right OSB?.....Very weird how you quote OSB statements when most of the time you question them?You're sick and tired ... you only have yourself to blame. If you want to avoid this question again, then you should understand the concept of management fees. I think it has been explained about a hundred times on this forum and probably a few times to you specifically. Anyway, you include figures from 2010. Since then the whole group structure has changed and the club is no longer CCFC ltd/CCFC H. This is what OSB says about management fees in an attempt to bust that myth:
Help me out. I'm confused. (If this has been covered, sorry, hard to pull out among the insults flying around in this thread).
Obviously Otium Entertainment won't be building the stadium, it'll be Arena Bedduth Plc or whatever. What happens to that company if/when Sisu sell the club. Does it (and it's debt) go as part of the group like Holdings was and therefore for all intents and purposes "the club" did build the stadium, or will it be retained by Sisu or sold elsewhere, leaving us back in the same situation of not owning our ground and being at the behest of a landlord.
I can only see those two options, it's going to be impossible to get an answer to that question from Fisher and Joy as "the club's not for sale", but realistically a lot of fans are looking beyond Sisu and onto what happens next. I'm not a high falutin finance type like yourself, but I can't see any option that doesn't load the club with debt or leave us in a worse position than we were under ACL.
I think sisu are preparing for there end game, they will build this stadium because it will make us much more attractive to buy, they will sell the club dependent on the stadium, 1 theory is the owner will build the stadium sell the club for say 40m with what hes supposedly put in since being here with the attractive new ground with small rent and all revenues for the club and the now owner will make silly money over years off the club with rent and interest, win win were debt free money making club and the owner now has his money back and more OR we get a another company to build a stadium we organise a fair rent and then the owner the person sisu wrk for will then sell or stick around for years and we end up a run of a mill top half championship club with any future profits or money making goin into the owners pocket hoping one year we have a good season and get in the prem which could take 20+ years
The figures I have shown were for 2010 and 2011 when SISU were in charge, I have not looked at the previous 3 years of management fees since beginning of tenure. As for OSB58's statement. His findings are for when OTIUM took charge and NOT before. Am I right OSB?.....Very weird how you quote OSB statements when most of the time you question them?
What did used to happen was that CCFC Ltd paid CCFC H management charges of around 2.6m. That was disclosed as income in CCFC H Ltd and formed part of administrative expenses in CCFC Ltd. When the Group accounts were put together the two amounts contra out to nil. The purpose of these management charges was to transfer costs from CCFC H and to attribute them to CCFC Ltd (eg the rent was shown in CCFC H but clearly the lease was held by CCFC Ltd)
The main problem I see with this scenario is that using the Ricoh as a guide: It cost £110m to build and yet is only now valued at £5.5m.
Would a stadium that cost say £30 to build including land be worth more than £2m?
Anything is only actually worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Just like CCFC - which is worth F all to anybody.
I can't see any business sense in this at all.
The Rotherham stadium, has a capacity of 12K and cost £20m. So, use this is a bottom-line comparison if you wish.
Fisher states he wants matchday and non-matchday incomes for the football club.
So, where's the return for the investor providing the equity to finance the stadium? They stack-up £20m+ to build the stadium; and Fisher is saying that another company (the trading football club) would be eligible for all of the revenues generated 24/7/365.
Where's the pay-back for the (third party) equity investor? Without access to incomes (as the football club seemingly gets those in Fisherland) they can only get a return on their investment via a high rent to the football club. And I thought this was what we moved to Sixfields to get away from?!?
Of course, all of this could be dispelled with a simple business-plan with one ofr two figures on from Fisher. If he's searching for venues, such facts must exist. Please share them so that we can take a view.
And please don't tell me they're confidential, as this information would be included in any investor prospectus in any case
The plan should be....
Build a stadium on finance
Use the increase in matchday/non matchday revenue to fund a more competitive squad.
Gain promotion to the championship
Find a way to increase revenue streams
Gain (fluke if neccesary) promotion to PL
Stadium finance paid off
Owners (and club) make a fuck load out of TV revenue...
Owners leave
If it was anyone else we would think it's an as sensible plan as we could manage given our situation.
It would be beautiful, eh?
Which is why we have to be wary of discounting the idea.
Because it's SISU, they're in danger of killing off the club as much because nobody will listen to many of the possible ways forward.
By all means, it's not like they've shown any ability to get this off the ground in any way, shape or form. But once they're gone...
I still reckon that even if SISU left tomorrow then any new owner would see the need to leave the Ricoh and have our own place. Or, as Duffer said on another thread, wait for Wasps to fail. Preferable option for me.
I don't think it's as simplistic as discounting any ideas as it's SISU per se; or even Fisher for that matter, it's that it makes no sense.
For an investor to part with their cash, they want a return. They get that via revenues or rent. Fisher says the football club keeps all the revenues (matchday and non-matchday); so the separate-company investor has to charge high rent as there are no active revenue streams open to it. A £20m stadium, allowing for term and return would need £2m+ per annum in rent from it's tenant to make this even close to viable.
Who's going to extend that line of credit in CCFC/SISU's favour now? And isn't that what we tried to move away from?
Who's going to extend that line of credit in CCFC/SISU's favour now?
.... To go back to the Ricoh opening, ACL were effectively that investor, they invested £21m for the fit-out / lease purchase. ACL had access to both the match day and non match day income as well as a high rent. Yet it ultimately still didn't pay. Even before the rent strike. The club were destitute and the investor was reliant on the club.
I don't see how the circumstances for any new stadium could be any better.
Yup, true.
Grounds tend to kill clubs. Not just us, but even Chelsea and Wolves in the 70s found themselves near-as-bust because of their stadium building.
Really unsure why people are discussing finance etc over something that clearly is never going to happen, the first team picture should show you that, sepella showing no interest whatsoever apart from putting in the BARE MINIMUM to run the club each week, the lack of funding in terms of purchasing players to build a competitive squad which would put more bums on seats and create more revenue should show you that.
So why go through all the bother of posing questions etc for something that our beloved chairman has a fantasy about that is clearly never going to happen whilst SISU are at the helm.
Indeed, it was only new stands back then too!
That, my friend, can be the only strategy left in SISU's armoury. Hope to win the latest court case, and/or wait and hope for Wasps failure.
Why do you constantly move around the forum telling people what they can or can't talk about?
Its beggers belief that people still bang on about this, its all a ploy to keep the fans on side.. talk about all you want its just laughable that some still think its going to happen.
its all a ploy to keep the fans on side..
We could be turned easily into the next Leicester City, owning our own stadium
Although Leicester's ground is in a separate company, isn't it?
King Power is owned by the owners company I think
http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/010313-lcfc-owners-purchase-king-power-stadium-686232.aspx
SISU themselves.
One would assume any model is an accountancy trick, so you have a nice large asset on your books that, until the depereciation kicks in properly, is on there for more than the cost. So in that instance, things look nice and healthy for a few years. If SISU internally financed part of it too, the repayments would be areturn, wouldn't they. And they don't need partners as such, they just need people willing to pay the cost to build, say, their uber OAP nursing home, capable of housing 14,327 pensioners. They hand over the cash for that bit, costs are shared on scaling up the building... a ground costs less than the headline figure.
In that respect, as per the Ricoh, a football ground is a decent battering ram to get things through that otherwise wouldn't be allowed... or rather, it would be if our owners had any kind of popular backing, anyway!
You then start the clock... to either sell or use that spare 'cash' to go for the promotions.
And if it all goes wrong? Well, it was high risk anyway, that's why people invested in the first place.
King Power is owned by the owners company I think
http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/010313-lcfc-owners-purchase-king-power-stadium-686232.aspx
You can't move for people being convinced by every word they say.
Will this be a place for us middle aged supporters that will still be waiting for our club to have a new home?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?