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Fisher Lost The Plot (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Skybluenutterman
  • Start date Dec 27, 2016
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bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #141
Nick said:
Surely the way he chose to give that figure when it won't show that in the accounts?
Click to expand...

Then it's not profit if it doesn't show in the accounts
Therefore, he lied again.
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #142
skybluetony176 said:
Without financial backing?
Click to expand...
That's why they are in League 2
It's were we will be soon if no investment made in the team
Investment in team = better performance on pitch = fans through the turnstiles= increased revenues
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #143
bawtryneal said:
Then it's not profit if it doesn't show in the accounts
Therefore, he lied again.
Click to expand...

Didn't that get explained with the ebit stuff?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #144
skybluetony176 said:
Without financial backing?
Click to expand...

Pinched from another forum:
In terms of overall financial distributions, all League clubs receive a share of what is called 'facility fees' which encompass broadcasting revenue, which for the current 15/16 season is as follows:



Facilities Fees (per club - '000)

Championship - £2.1m

League 1 - £680k

League 2 - £474k



Each club receives the same amount. There are no ladder payments depending on where clubs finish. However in addition, The Football League and Premier League have a separate agreement with regards to solidarity payments. Currently all clubs in The League therefore also receive a share of the solidarity money as follows:



Solidarity (per club - '000)

Championship - £2.3m

League 1 - £360k

League 2 - £240k



Clubs also receive money from live TV broadcasts as follows:



TV Broadcast fees per match (per club - '000) Championship - Home Club League £100k, away club League £10k League 1 - Home club League £30k, away club League £10k League 2 - Home club League£30k, away club League £10k



Aside from this clubs earn revenue through ticket sales, matchday income and non-matchday income streams. For any further specific information please contact clubs directly.



Thank you for contacting The Football League.



So youre talking a drop of £226k followinf relegation. Let's say we lose 3,000 fans at £10 a game that's another £690k, so just over £900k total drop in income.

Allegedly, we could pay for that out of profits now. Even if that's bollocks, we could easily have the wage bill (basically get rid of the top third of the squad).

Yeah we could break even in L2, especially if we can cut more costs.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart, skybluetony176 and Astute

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #145
bawtryneal said:
That's why they are in League 2
It's were we will be soon if no investment made in the team
Investment in team = better performance on pitch = fans through the turnstiles= increased revenues
Click to expand...

Even so I struggle to believe that any team in the top 4 leagues can survive without financial backing on crowds of 2K. Unless of course Grendull has some links to back his claim
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #146
Nick said:
That still doesn't explain how the money is going to SISU though does it?

If somebody can show to me that my ticket money goes to SISU / Joy rather than into the running of CCFC then of course I would think twice about going.

CCFC aren't SISU, so nobody is a blind sheep for going to watch CCFC.

It's just something pushed along with the ticket money to SISU stuff over and over again. People say they are the same so they can say they are starving SISU, rather than CCFC.
Click to expand...

If we all agree that SISU/Otium are running CCFC as a business then by giving money to CCFC you are giving money to SISU directly and indirectly.
Assuming SISU are trying to make a profit or recover a return on their investment then money given to CCFC supports SISU
I have no problem with anybody who buys a season ticket or a shirt or programme but after 9 years of SISU I have very recently chosen NOPM.
I find it impossible to separate CCFC from SISU.
 
Reactions: singers_pore, Captain Dart, montydon87 and 1 other person

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #147
How is it giving SISU money directly?

Can you explain the process from me buying my season ticket of say £250 and how that has gone to SISU directly?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #148
skybluetony176 said:
Even so I struggle to believe that any team in the top 4 leagues can survive without financial backing on crowds of 2K. Unless of course Grendull has some links to back his claim
Click to expand...

Ah missed the 2k crowds bit.

That's 460,000 ticket income and £714k TV money. So total income £1.154m plus sponsorship and cup money.

It'd require a move to the Butts and playing the academy kids (which is basically free as we put in the same amount we get back from the FA IIRC) but maybe.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #149
Nick said:
We currently have the 7th highest attendance in league 1.

I'd say mid / below mid would be about right sadly. I just dont get where the top 3 stuff comes from.
Click to expand...

Maybe top 7 in attendances but bottom 5 in turnover/revenues.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #150
Nick said:
How is it giving SISU money directly?

Can you explain the process from me buying my season ticket of say £250 and how that has gone to SISU directly?
Click to expand...
Depends where the £1M profit is going ??
 
C

covman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #151
chiefdave said:
The other option is not funding the club and it deteriorates much quicker and has less of a chance of a 'lucky' season.
Click to expand...

If we did get a lucky run, SISU would leave us stranded taking all the profits. Nothing would go back into the team. We would be straight back down in a worse state. We will NEVER have success while SISU are here.
 
Reactions: bawtryneal

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #152
bawtryneal said:
Then it's not profit if it doesn't show in the accounts
Therefore, he lied again.
Click to expand...

As always an element of truth. He tried to pass it off as out and out profit but when pushed on it (by Dave Johnson I think) he admitted it was EBIT. He probably wouldn't have done so unless pushed so well done Dave for asking the right question. It put fisher on the spot and in a rare occasion for him he had to give the bigger picture rather than tell you something, without telling you anything and letting people assume we've turned a corner. It's what TF does. He doesn't lie, he just doesn't (by choice) tell you everything you need to know to get the full picture.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart, Astute and Nick

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #153
italiahorse said:
Depends where the £1M profit is going ??
Click to expand...

I agree with that bit, if ccfc suddenly starts making lots of money then I would also seriously consider it.

I doubt it will be £1m profit when the accounts come out though will it?
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #154
Nick said:
Didn't that get explained with the ebit stuff?
Click to expand...

I don't think so
EBIT. Earnings before profit and tax
In my mind that is Operating profit before any exceptional items. Depending on your auditor it depends what you can put " below the line".
SISU/Optium are removing money from the club therefore those that choose to spend money with CCFC are supporting the current regime. If you are okay with that, then fine.
 
Reactions: covman

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #155
bawtryneal said:
I don't think so
EBIT. Earnings before profit and tax
In my mind that is Operating profit before any exceptional items. Depending on your auditor it depends what you can put " below the line".
SISU/Optium are removing money from the club therefore those that choose to spend money with CCFC are supporting the current regime. If you are okay with that, then fine.
Click to expand...

So which money is being removed?
 
C

covman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #156
Nick said:
That still doesn't explain how the money is going to SISU though does it?

If somebody can show to me that my ticket money goes to SISU / Joy rather than into the running of CCFC then of course I would think twice about going.

CCFC aren't SISU, so nobody is a blind sheep for going to watch CCFC.

It's just something pushed along with the ticket money to SISU stuff over and over again. People say they are the same so they can say they are starving SISU, rather than CCFC.
Click to expand...

It just had been explained to you but yet again you pull the wool over your eyes either to a) push SISU propaganda b) wind people up or c) simply get kicks out of being a contrarian. Whichever one of these it is, it's pretty sad.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart and Gosford Green

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #157
covman said:
It just had been explained to you but yet again you pull the wool over your eyes either to a) push SISU propaganda b) wind people up or c) simply get kicks out of being a contrarian. Whichever one of these it is, it's pretty sad.
Click to expand...

What propaganda is being pushed? Can you quote it?

It still hasn't been explained has it. Just saying "SISU own CCFC" doesn't explain it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #158
Astute said:
Should our budget be towards the bottom of Division 3 like it is?
Click to expand...

Ironic given you now seem to be quoting fisher for factual accuracy both on profit and gates.

Starting with the £1 million profit I believe the accounts for the period covered have not been released. Even he admitted that the operating losses were actually close to £2 million and the player sale covered the shortfall. What I expect you will see is a loss unless the player sale cash upfront was sufficient to cover the shortfall. The sake money is used for cash flow management. When fisher talks about break even he really is talking managing cash flow to maintain the business -balance costs and revenues.

Regarding budgets again this is a red herring. I doubt he knows where we are in terms of placing a and the argument is used to sustain his 365 revenue debate. The truth is in wage bills not budgets and it's very obvious most clubs operate below the level of budgets.
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #159
Nick said:
How is it giving SISU money directly?

Can you explain the process from me buying my season ticket of say £250 and how that has gone to SISU directly?
Click to expand...

Can I ask you a question first please.
Why do you think Joy Seppala is still involved with the club.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #160
shmmeee said:
It'd require a move to the Butts and playing the academy kids (which is basically free as we put in the same amount we get back from the FA IIRC) but maybe.
Click to expand...

I think we match it, so would still cost about 600k depending on what status it would be then.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #161
bawtryneal said:
Can I ask you a question first please.
Why do you think Joy Seppala is still involved with the club.
Click to expand...

That doesn't explain how my ticket money is going to her does it?

Surely you would have more of an idea than most about the goings on at CCFC so can explain why she is involved?
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #162
Nick said:
So which money is being removed?
Click to expand...

Management charges
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #163
bawtryneal said:
Management charges
Click to expand...

How much are they?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #164
bawtryneal said:
Maybe top 7 in attendances but bottom 5 in turnover/revenues.
Click to expand...
I'm with OSB58 on this.
Other incomes don't have to be at the Ricoh.
I already think that they are talking about a joint venture at the Butts.
But it could be so much more if they wanted. Build hotels and complexes offsite, perhaps attach them to the 'new' training ground.
As I see it though, Sisu don't really want to invest in infrastructure so it needs to be given to them or wrestled off others.
 
Reactions: colin101, singers_pore, Captain Dart and 2 others

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #165
Nick said:
How much are they?
Click to expand...
You'll need a forensic accountant for that one ?
Question. Do you think TF is working for nothing ?
 
Reactions: singers_pore and Captain Dart

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #166
Nick said:
That doesn't explain how my ticket money is going to her does it?

Surely you would have more of an idea than most about the goings on at CCFC so can explain why she is involved?
Click to expand...

A very long answer required and I have jobs to do but very simply

She is only still involved to recoup as much of the initial investment as possible

This can happen in 1 of 3 ways

1.Through continued court action
2.Sell CCFC
3.Profit or management charges via CCFC

The only realistic opportunity in the next two years is though number 3. Therefore a % of your £250 season ticket goes to SISU. Probably only 5%

Anyway, PUSB and let's hope we beat Peterborough.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #167
bawtryneal said:
A very long answer required and I have jobs to do but very simply

She is only still involved to recoup as much of the initial investment as possible

This can happen in 1 of 3 ways

1.Through continued court action
2.Sell CCFC
3.Profit or management charges via CCFC

The only realistic opportunity in the next two years is though number 3. Therefore a % of your £250 season ticket goes to SISU. Probably only 5%

Anyway, PUSB and let's hope we beat Peterborough.
Click to expand...

I can understand if ccfc makes loads of money and start taking dividends from CCFC.

How much have the management charges been last year?

You still aren't telling me categorically how my money from my season ticket got to SISU, you are guessing.

People are making out that the money is going direct to SISU, my ticket money is going to Joy and not to CCFC and if you didn't ask how it all sounds rather believable the way it is said as fact over and over again.
 

hutch1972

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #168
chiefdave said:
But if we drop to the conference, which could happen by the time the Ricoh contract ends, the Butts becomes viable. There would be a few changes needed and possibly one temporary stand but not much. You've got to imagine the cost of playing at the Butts is a fraction of playing at the Ricoh.

Conference teams survive on small crowds so there's no reason to think the same wouldn't be true for us.

Obviously wouldn't want that to happen but I don't think the idea we can starve them out and at some point they have to put money in works. You will never get a total boycott and there's nothing to stop us dropping right down the pyramid.
Click to expand...
The thought of conference football in a year or 2 frightens the shit out of me after watching Eastleigh last night.
They have invested upwards of 5 mill and the football made even us look like Barca, it was incredibly poor.
Reda left the pitch after 20 mins with hamstring trouble and was replaced by David pipe !! Remember him ?
 
Reactions: Captain Dart, no_loyalty and Astute

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #169
Nick said:
That doesn't explain how my ticket money is going to her does it?

Surely you would have more of an idea than most about the goings on at CCFC so can explain why she is involved?
Click to expand...

Would love to know why you think JS is hanging around.???
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #170
bawtryneal said:
Would love to know why you think JS is hanging around.???
Click to expand...

Would love to know why so many people keep saying my ticket money is going to SISU rather than CCFC as if it is a fact but then when asked how they hazard guesses and maybes.

If players don't get paid and millions suddenly vanishes into Joy's bank account then I would start believing that and wouldn't be going either.
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #171
Nick said:
How much are they?
Click to expand...

I do not know exactly as have not seen documented proof but £475k has been suggested to me.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #172
bawtryneal said:
I do not know exactly as have not seen documented proof but £475k has been suggested to me.
Click to expand...

Where was it suggested?

When was it for?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #173
shmmeee said:
Ah missed the 2k crowds bit.

That's 460,000 ticket income and £714k TV money. So total income £1.154m plus sponsorship and cup money.

It'd require a move to the Butts and playing the academy kids (which is basically free as we put in the same amount we get back from the FA IIRC) but maybe.
Click to expand...

Looking at average attendances there's only 3 teams with less than 2K average. Morecombe, Barnet and Accrington Stanley. All have a history with non league rather than league so don't exactly have illustrious past's in their current guises and the only one competing at the right end of the table is Barnet who's owner has invested alot of money in the club. £ 31M on ground and training ground for starters. Couldn't really find out too much on the finances of Morecombe and AS. Might have a look again when I've got more time.
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #174
Nick said:
I can understand if ccfc makes loads of money and start taking dividends from CCFC.

How much have the management charges been last year?

You still aren't telling me categorically how my money from my season ticket got to SISU, you are guessing.

People are making out that the money is going direct to SISU, my ticket money is going to Joy and not to CCFC and if you didn't ask how it all sounds rather believable the way it is said as fact over and over again.
Click to expand...

Have a good day Nick.
Over and out.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 28, 2016
  • #175
Nick said:
That still doesn't explain how the money is going to SISU though does it?

If somebody can show to me that my ticket money goes to SISU / Joy rather than into the running of CCFC then of course I would think twice about going.

CCFC aren't SISU, so nobody is a blind sheep for going to watch CCFC.

It's just something pushed along with the ticket money to SISU stuff over and over again. People say they are the same so they can say they are starving SISU, rather than CCFC.
Click to expand...
We supposedly made 1m profit last season. Yet our player budget seems to be much lower. They are in the process of selling our training ground. Looks like we will rent our next one.

Do you think that these millions will stay with our club?
 
Reactions: colin101, singers_pore, Captain Dart and 2 others
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