Look, I don't agree with Godiva's point but how does having an alternative view about the behind the scenes stuff mean his support of the team is in question?
IMO sisu are a cancer in our club and if people get taken in by them then it's a worrying state of fans mindset IMO.
What good have they done? And why do fans think this will change now?
Don't mention cancer and Sisu, you'll have Torchy throwing himself off a cliff!
He's an intelligent and devious man who thinks he can manipulate the situation to his advantage by piling the responsibility onto ACL's shoulders. He also assumes that the majority of fans won't dig further into what he says or behind the scenes and will hence buy more into what he's putting in the Telegraph. Every article such as this is an insult to the intelligence of the fans and takes away the paper's credibility to source proper news.
IMO sisu are a cancer in our club and if people get taken in by them then it's a worrying state of fans mindset IMO.
What good have they done? And why do fans think this will change now?
Just to answer your query Godiva - if we are looking at CCFC Ltd which is what it is all about - then the only assets to be depreciated or amortised are player contracts. Can not think of many contracts that are still the original ones where we paid a fee other than Cody. So the write down costs per annum as it presently stands is a lot less than £500K ie not the millions of previous years.
I agree TF does say the right things ..... that I think is the point a lot of people are driving at, because the" said right things" dont seem to become the" real right things". If you look at what is behind what he says then there are a lot of contradictions and I am uncomfortable with that.
I also think nearly everyone buys into the financial realities and what needs to be done. Yes we do need to look forward from here I accept that, but had they dealt with it properly from the off they wouldn't have needed to loan £40m to the company. They are holding the £40m as a "look what we have done for CCFC" when in reality CCFC now owe a big chunk of that money because of the mess the owners and directors have made of it over the last 5 years.
Glossing over with yes there were mistakes made but it wasn't all us doesn't really cut it after 5 years of ownership.
Said before I would like TF to explain in detail what he thinks those mistakes have been.... i bet it will never happen
Also would suggest that everyone holds on to the thought that the driving force of any hedge fund is money ............. SISU and their clients are not here for some altruistic motive....... it was is and always will be about the money. Dont get me wrong I have no problem with the concept of earning profits and money but lets keep it real not dress it up as being good to the supporters
Thanks for clearing the depreciation factor for me. I am not an expert into football accounts (as I have showed on many occasions) but I thought Bell's and Bakers new 4 year deals would need to be depreciated. Whatever - in my mind the non-cashflow items were around a mil per year, which in combination with some new/increased revenues and a rent reduction and all the cost savings over the last year could mean we're getting close to cash-flow neutral/positive position.
I leave the blame game to others - there are many much better qualified players of that game on this board. But I do think they are moving us towards break-even. Even with relegation in mind and helped by the FFP.
You are right about sisu being a hedge fund and having a no 1 objective to make a profit ... didn't we put that into one of the FAQ's? But in that respect they are no different than any other investors aside from the sugardaddys (who are now being abandoned from the game through the FFP). I am sure we put that into one of the FAQ's as well.
Reaching a positive financial situation will require the club to own part of the stadium and receive part of the income from each and every event - and in addition a rent reduction. This is necessary no matter who owns us. Sisu are here to negotiate the deal and make it happen. Whatever they did in the past and however anyone plays the blame-game - this deal seem essential to the survival of the club, and that's why I support it.
But surely that's a difference of opinion, not a credible reason to question someones support?
Thanks for clearing the depreciation factor for me. I am not an expert into football accounts (as I have showed on many occasions) but I thought Bell's and Bakers new 4 year deals would need to be depreciated. Whatever - in my mind the non-cashflow items were around a mil per year, which in combination with some new/increased revenues and a rent reduction and all the cost savings over the last year could mean we're getting close to cash-flow neutral/positive position.
I leave the blame game to others - there are many much better qualified players of that game on this board. But I do think they are moving us towards break-even. Even with relegation in mind and helped by the FFP.
You are right about sisu being a hedge fund and having a no 1 objective to make a profit ... didn't we put that into one of the FAQ's? But in that respect they are no different than any other investors aside from the sugardaddys (who are now being abandoned from the game through the FFP). I am sure we put that into one of the FAQ's as well.
Reaching a positive financial situation will require the club to own part of the stadium and receive part of the income from each and every event - and in addition a rent reduction. This is necessary no matter who owns us. Sisu are here to negotiate the deal and make it happen. Whatever they did in the past and however anyone plays the blame-game - this deal seem essential to the survival of the club, and that's why I support it.
IMO fans who support sisu are not supporting ccfc each to there own. My mates who follow Cov all agree that fans need to be united not on the sisu side
That's all well and good but when you hear stuff come out like 'Coventry City Interim CEO Tim Fisher has said relegation has reduced the club's revenues by half' then you can't but ask why the fook didn't they try and do something about us trying to stay in the Championship?
:thinking about::thinking about:
They have created this mess and now want ACL, the Council, Higgs and the fans to help them out.
Just a couple of more players brought in last season could have made all the difference and if they had one iota of a brain they would have looked and said 'buying 2 players will cost x amount, but being relegated will cost us at least 8-10 times that amount!!
Daft fookers.
OSB / Godiva.....given what our reality is and what SISU are requesting perhaps put argument aside and give your opinion on what can be achieved going forward with the Fisher plan would be for CCFC bearing in mind the new rules? I se the first season is the one we need to hit the ground running as we will have less investment parameters the following year for player budgets...
No doubt the textbook SISU response to that would be 'It's in the past now, we acknowledge we made mistakes but it's time to look forward' or something along those lines. They talk a lot about making mistakes but don't identify them or suggest how to rectify these mistakes-cliches designed to preserve season ticket sales.
I'm thoroughly with the opinions of OSB and Godiva here! Both have made remarks that give us a good summary.
It's all well and good to put SISU down at every opportunity but whether for for the long term good of the club or themselves they are doing the things they or any other owners might do given the current circumstances.
Painting a slightly bleaker picture of our position for the season ahead may be deliberate from fisher rather than a whole bunch of high expectation but the end product will be some player investment this first season to try and achieve some relative success (promotion or playoffs)
While everyone harks on about 'fcuk off SISU' or 'they are a cancer' it's ill thought out and not helpful at all.
Has anybody got any alternative for our football club?
Please don't quote that Hoffman guy or Keys anymore. There are no deals from those avenues. If there was it would be now.
So what alternative is there folks? Do you want a football club or do you prefer to be non existent?
Yes it seems like or can be construed as a 'threat' by SISU to the trust and council etc but it's just a fact of life I'm afraid at this juncture and there is some relevancy to the request.
Stark choice but for the moment it's all we got.
OSB / Godiva.....given what our reality is and what SISU are requesting perhaps put argument aside and give your opinion on what can be achieved going forward with the Fisher plan would be for CCFC bearing in mind the new rules? I se the first season is the one we need to hit the ground running as we will have less investment parameters the following year for player budgets...
I think I am fairly objective regarding sisu. Once we signed all our shares over to a hedge fund I don't know what we expected. They are a small company with 25 employees who manage business, or leave them to self manage.
We were an unsuitable and ridiculous purchase for them. They were bought in by ranson who proved poor in his choice of management team to do a job.
We were always high risk. All clubs falling out of the premier and not getting back within parachute payment timescales have subsequently endured administration and / or relegation.
However, as owners they have proved very poor. They offer zero business expertise but bring with them strangling decision making beurocracy that make Ford look like a sole trader. They do not communicate effectively and offer no confidence for the future at all. I am realistic we are stuck with them but let's not be blinded. The real problem is any relative success which did yield extra revenue will not go to the club,
Unlike most I see thorn as complicite to the issue. He is wedded to them as Keane is with their owners. He almost acts as a human shield. If he went they would be wholly exposed as they would not be able to recruit anyone else.
They are poor, poor owners but as things stand there is no option. They will go one day but I suspect a lot more grief is on the way first.
While everyone harks on about 'fcuk off SISU' or 'they are a cancer' it's ill thought out and not helpful at all.
Has anybody got any alternative for our football club? (quote Paxman)
everybody quotes it because they can see SISU have fucked this club good and proper and as for SISU being the only option thats crap to, people wanted the club, but orange ken fucked that up or have you forgoten that ?? SISU are in charge and not willing to invest in the club, they want the stadium and thats all they care about, other people want the club but SISU want their so called investment and are holding out till they get what they want, they are trying to hold a gun to the councils head to pay for SISU's fuck up for the past five years, and i hope the council dont fold on this!! if SISU get the stadium are they going to invest in the team ?? are they going to saddle the club with more debt and filter off the revenue ?? i dont know neither do you , but i know which one i belive would happen!!
OK I have not forgotten anything.
If it's 'crap' that there is no other option then what is the other option SUB?
You are quoting things that suggest you are in the know? You can't possibly know if they will invest anything?
I'm merely surmising what potentially they may do I'm not saying they will or that I know like you are.
I believe if they get a deal with the stadium revenue streams and a reduction in the rent then they would formulate a plan that includes some investment on the pitch. The rules that suggest we can base that on last seasons income give us a platform to do that this first season which would give us a better starting point than the rest of the league 1 teams.
If as you wish the council stand firm and don't 'fold' as you say - well then what SUB?
Whatever agreement is made with all the protagonist it will result in our football clubs survival and potentially give SISU a better structure to sell their interest on to another interested party (like Hoffman or whoever) With out it they and we will be up a creek without a paddle. You can call it putting a gun to the councils head if you like but it's just a stark reality all the same.
It's all very well lambasting SISU but at some point we all have to face the position we are in here and now and not the past.
OK I have not forgotten anything.
If it's 'crap' that there is no other option then what is the other option SUB?
You are quoting things that suggest you are in the know? You can't possibly know if they will invest anything?
I'm merely surmising what potentially they may do I'm not saying they will or that I know like you are.
I believe if they get a deal with the stadium revenue streams and a reduction in the rent then they would formulate a plan that includes some investment on the pitch. The rules that suggest we can base that on last seasons income give us a platform to do that this first season which would give us a better starting point than the rest of the league 1 teams.
If as you wish the council stand firm and don't 'fold' as you say - well then what SUB?
Whatever agreement is made with all the protagonist it will result in our football clubs survival and potentially give SISU a better structure to sell their interest on to another interested party (like Hoffman or whoever) With out it they and we will be up a creek without a paddle. You can call it putting a gun to the councils head if you like but it's just a stark reality all the same.
It's all very well lambasting SISU but at some point we all have to face the position we are in here and now and not the past.
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