FAO the ‘Thorn is a miracle worker’ lot on here (1 Viewer)

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Ive been working away so rarely get on here now. But Are you still sure he’s the right man for the job?

I was getting attacked by all quarters on here when I had no belief in Thorn back in September & many on here said will be alright, we won’t get relegated blah blah. Now 18 games in with 2 wins and 15 goals.

I feel sorry for Thorn but he is not the man for the job. Yes he has not had much at his disposal but what he has had, he hasn’t produced the best from it. I honestly feel this team is not a bottom 3 team but Thorn has this stubborn fixation about a formation which does not suit our players.

Otis · Nov 23, 2011

Whatever anyone believes I think we are stuck with him.

Grendel · Nov 23, 2011

No he is not. Just because his owners are awful and selling players under him does not make him good. Reverse logic is not something that I understand and he isn't good.
He hasn't been offered an extended contract so even SISU don't see the asset value. Also if he was good he would leave confident in the knowledge that his "talents" will be deployed elswehere. He knows SISU are his best bet for long-term employment.
Do you think Billy Davies would tolerate this board? No.
Thought I would send the post - safety in numbers - prepare for the backlash.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Otis said:
Whatever anyone believes I think we are stuck with him.

Id rather see Carsley given a chance if im honest and let Thorn get back to be the scout which he’s good at. I honestly wouldn't want Thorn in charge of my boys U7 team

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

kduffy said:
No he is not. Just because his owners are awful and selling players under him does not make him good. Reverse logic is not something that I understand and he isn't good.
He hasn't been offered an extended contract so even SISU don't see the asset value. Also if he was good he would leave confident in the knowledge that his "talents" will be deployed elswehere. He knows SISU are his best bet for long-term employment.
Do you think Billy Davies would tolerate this board? No.
Thought I would send the post - safety in numbers - prepare for the backlash.

I'll be backing you up m8. Too many fans are living off his honeymoon period from last year

Grendel · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
I'll be backing you up m8. Too many fans are living off his honeymoon period from last year

And 3 wins wasn't much of a honeymoon was it?

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

2 wins in 18 is unacceptable this season. Simple as that.

skybluejelly · Nov 23, 2011

to be fair even when jesus fed the 5000 he had 2 fish and five loaves to feed them,,, thorn has just got left over crumbs from everyone else

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

skybluejelly said:
to be fair even when jesus fed the 5000 he had 2 fish and five loaves to feed them,,, thorn has just got left over crumbs from everyone else

and is doing nothing with the crumbs.

We need a manager who can bring the best out of the players and use the players to there best not play a formation which is not working.

WillieStanley · Nov 23, 2011

If you look at how we play... Its decent! We take the game to our opposition regardless of who they think they are!

The problems lie with no depth, rookie players, fitness and yes a rookie manager who is prone to mistakes! Look at the difference having an over 30 in the side!

Thorn isn't brilliant but to only blame him is short sighted.

Otis · Nov 23, 2011

Sorry, did anyone see who just said that?

covkid64 · Nov 23, 2011

Ok I've read the comments about thorn but the one thing that no one has put forward is who they would bring in to replace thorn! You guys really don't get it do you! Thorn has been a manager who has had no money to spend, players have been sold and not replaced, has a chairman who has more faces than a shop full of clocks and if his life depended on it could lie straight in bed! Thorn is doing the best he can with a very young squad who are one of the smallest in the championship! Who would replace thorn given the clubs current and on going situation? A situation which won't change anytime in the future while SISU are the clubs owners and who in there right minds would want to put themselves in a no win position! Thorn is our manager and we should support him!

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

WillieStanley said:
If you look at how we play... Its decent! We take the game to our opposition regardless of who they think they are!

The problems lie with no depth, rookie players, fitness and yes a rookie manager who is prone to mistakes! Look at the difference having an over 30 in the side!

Thorn isn't brilliant but to only blame him is short sighted.

He is a big part of the problem.

How can you say the football is decent? We play sidewards all the time. There's no spark in the side. The football is neat but no end product.

He needs to find a formation which will bring out the best in the team. This diamond is not.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

covkid64 said:
Ok I've read the comments about thorn but the one thing that no one has put forward is who they would bring in to replace thorn! You guys really don't get it do you! Thorn has been a manager who has had no money to spend, players have been sold and not replaced, has a chairman who has more faces than a shop full of clocks and if his life depended on it could lie straight in bed! Thorn is doing the best he can with a very young squad who are one of the smallest in the championship! Who would replace thorn given the clubs current and on going situation? A situation which won't change anytime in the future while SISU are the clubs owners and who in there right minds would want to put themselves in a no win position! Thorn is our manager and we should support him!

Carsley. Doing wonders with the academy.

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Carsley. Doing wonders with the academy.

Yes, absolutely nothing to do with Gregor Rioch and his academy coaches that have been working with them the last few years.

ashbyjan · Nov 23, 2011

Is Thorn the next Wenger or Ferguson? Probably not but he's the best we are going to get as no other manager is going to come here on comparable wages, with no budget to buy players, with an understanding that any player could be sold or loaned from underneath him at any moment, he will have no say in buying or selling, the squad he has to work with is either too young or too useless and any decent players are off and he will only be offered a 12 month rolling contract. Hardly an attractive proposition are we?
Thorn may not be ideal and will make mistakes - hindsight is a great tool for armchair managers - but he is our manager for the time SISU are here unless he gets fed up of the flack and treatment by Kenny and walks of his own volition. If he does than the chances are multitasking Ken will become first team manager via Skype from his sunlounger in the Algarve - now that is a frightening prospect.

covkid64 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Carsley. Doing wonders with the academy.

And your point is what? If you acually knew what you were talking about then you'd know that managing a group of kids many of whom don't have a contract is worlds apart from managing players in a very hard competitive league like the championship with all the pressures that that entails!

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

stupot07 said:
Yes, absolutely nothing to do with Gregor Rioch and his academy coaches that have been working with them the last few years.

yes and hes getting the best from players despite not having the best at his disposal.

as for Thorn is the only man comments blah blah.

shame on you all thinking its ok. first you let sisu mug us off then you sit back and tolerate a manager who has not got a clue when it comes to tactics or subs.

2 wins in 18 with 15 goals. if your happy to sit back and carry on with that then more fool you. you slag off managers who do a decent job then we have a manager who gives us the worst start in over 10 years and you think hes fine. strange

Sky Blue Sheepy · Nov 23, 2011

Honestly, I'd like to see Rioch and Carsley given a go if we have to promote internally.

Our Under 18th are flying atm under their guidance and a lot of our first team have worked with Rioch at least. Not saying it would work but it does seem to make sense for me.
That said, Nigel Adkins was a physio and he isn't doing too bad - buys well and has them winning

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

covkid64 said:
And your point is what? If you acually knew what you were talking about then you'd know that managing a group of kids many of whom don't have a contract is worlds apart from managing players in a very hard competitive league like the championship with all the pressures that that entails!

just to play devils advocate

So it was the right decision to appoint a guy with absolutely no management experience was it ? Being a chief scout is a world away from any football management yet he is the right choice to deal with the pressures of the Championship ?

He is what we have and I support him in many ways because it is almost an impossible job to do, but he does have his faults and his inexperience and lack of learning the management craft slowly, properly is and will cost us. However he is but part of our problems and is or could be part of the solution too one way or another. I dont have blind faith in him, he doesnt get the best out of the players we have because if he did we wouldnt be playing the diamond, there are obvious flaws in what he gets the team to do, but hey he is human everyone makes mistakes ! We just cant afford any right now!

Wouldnt be my choice for manager, nice enough guy but not hard enough for this level. But we cant afford another so I take the pragmatic view and remain resigned to him staying.

Otis · Nov 23, 2011

covkid64 said:
Ok I've read the comments about thorn but the one thing that no one has put forward is who they would bring in to replace thorn! You guys really don't get it do you! Thorn has been a manager who has had no money to spend, players have been sold and not replaced, has a chairman who has more faces than a shop full of clocks and if his life depended on it could lie straight in bed! Thorn is doing the best he can with a very young squad who are one of the smallest in the championship! Who would replace thorn given the clubs current and on going situation? A situation which won't change anytime in the future while SISU are the clubs owners and who in there right minds would want to put themselves in a no win position! Thorn is our manager and we should support him!

You guys really don't get it do you! - Yes, we very much get it.

Thorn is doing the best he can - Yes he is. That is the best that he can do. That doesn't mean anyone else cannot do any better.

Thorn is our manager and we should support him! - Thorn is our manager and we do support him. This doesn't mean we have to follow blindly like sheep and ignore any mistake he is making.

You can teach players to move into space in training. Our movement is shocking. You can get the 3 bands of the team, defence, midfield and attack to play closer together when we have the ball. This is something that can be worked on in training. Some of the things going wrong in the team are down to a lack of quality. Some of the things going wrong are down to the lack of a decent squad size. Some of the problems however are seemingly self-inflicted and can be rectified.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

covkid64 said:
And your point is what? If you acually knew what you were talking about then you'd know that managing a group of kids many of whom don't have a contract is worlds apart from managing players in a very hard competitive league like the championship with all the pressures that that entails!

And Thorn the scout is doing a great job aint he.

i know what im talking about. 2 wins in 18 says it all to me

Bloodnut1964 · Nov 23, 2011

God you lot frustrate me!

How can you honestly blame Thorn when the man has been giving a crock of S**t to work with?
No money, players who aren't trying, young kids to work with and a board who keep selling players from under his nose, a board who know nothing about football or Coventry City, a board who don't care.
Get real and look at the whole picture instead of just making AT your scapegoat!

Fact: We have had much better squads than we have now and didn't do any good.
Fact: We have struggled season after season in the Championship with so called better/experienced managers who did spend money and had bigger squads.

Given the above two facts alone how do you expect CCFC to progress from previous seasons performances when all they have done is sell or give away our best players?

No matter who manages the team you can't progress if you were already rubbish and then go and sell your best assets, that's common sense.
AT is not the problem SISU is and bad management over the last 20yrs, bad decisions by the board, the owners etc etc etc.................

If wanna blame someone try Gordon Strachan the man who got us relegated, that's when the trouble started.

I give up with some of you.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
God you lot frustrate me!

How can you honestly blame Thorn when the man has been giving a crock of S**t to work with?
No money, players who aren't trying, young kids to work with and a board who keep selling players from under his nose, a board who know nothing about football or Coventry City, a board who don't care.
Get real and look at the whole picture instead of just making AT your scapegoat!

Fact: We have had much better squads than we have now and didn't do any good.
Fact: We have struggled season after season in the Championship with so called better/experienced managers who did spend money and had bigger squads.

Given the above two facts alone how do you expect CCFC to progress from previous seasons performances when all they have done is sell or give away our best players?

No matter who manages the team you can't progress if you were already rubbish and then go and sell your best assets, that's common sense.
AT is not the problem SISU is and bad management over the last 20yrs, bad decisions by the board, the owners etc etc etc.................

If wanna blame someone try Gordon Strachan the man who got us relegated, that's when the trouble started.

I give up with some of you.

Players who are not trying... Surely the manager should be motivating them then?

What has Thorn done since the start of the season to give you confidence in him as a manager? For me, nothing. His tactics scare me, his subs scare me. We have no balance in the side and all these issues are why we are 2nd from bottom. Yes he has had very little to work with but this team is better then 23rd in the Championship.

Off the pitch i blame SISU on the pitch i blame Thorn.

dazzled2u · Nov 23, 2011

There is no right man for this Job!!!!!!!!

I would say it's a poisoned chalice but SISU have sold the chalice and its more like trying to hold liquid in your cupped hands. The resources you had at the beginning are trickling through your fingers leaving you trying to balnce the little you have left.

There is no manager in the football league that could turn what we have left of a squad into a viable Championship team. Yes we have promising youngsters but youngsters make mistakes and thats how the learn. Youngsters also flourish better in a winning team as it builds their confidence.

Yes we have a half decent defence - but no matter how good a defence a good attacking team will still make chances and score goals.

I'm not saying Thorn is the best manager in the world and yes I'd probably pick another manager but I see little point in changing him for somebody else when there's nothing to manage!

PVA · Nov 23, 2011

The only half decent candidate we could realistically attract would be Sean O'Driscoll.

And he plays exactly the same way as Thorn - neat pretty passing football but rather toothless in the final third. So I doubt we'd be much better off to be honest.

Jim · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Players who are not trying... Surely the manager should be motivating them then?

If the players do not want to try, what magical wand could Thorn wave?

At another club he could stop playing them and replacements found via loan or purchase. That cant happen at CCFC, so he is stuck with a mix of youngsters with talent and no experience, poor players and players who clearly dont want to be here anymore. That is not a good combination but there is nothing the man can do.

What practical solution can you suggest to improve this situation?

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

You know what is frustrating is the polarised views expressed by folk.

Some say AT is doing the best anyone could given what he has to work with. Others say he isnt the man and should go. Woe betide anyone who doesnt toe the party line.

Neither polarised view takes proper consideration of the facts. Life isnt black and white in these matters. Everyone, but everyone, appreciates the fact that he hasnt had the money to work with, throwing this excuse into everyones faces repeatedly doesnt make it clearer ! Every CCFC fan must know by now that the club has no money to buy players - that is a fully understood fact. It isnt an excuse or justification for the manager's performance. Nor is being a decent scout justification for him to be a good manager - two very different things entirely

Given that there is no money then how do we pay off the manager and his backroom team ? or would that money if available be better spent on bringing in a player or two. I think you have to take a pragmatic view. Reality says we have AT as manager unless there is a major change like new owners

AT makes mistakes, he makes mistakes that a more experienced and better trained manager would not. He is at times tactically naiive and inflexible, he is slow to react to changing situations, sometimes he has imo made gaffs in his comments. He has the assets he has and credit to the man has never moaned about it, clearly most of the players like him. His team plays pretty keep ball in their own half but have scored the fewest goals in the Football League that isnt balanced by the best defensive record though.

He hasnt been able to put the team together in a way that brings even average success - and that is the minimum requirement from a manager. Yes we have youngsters playing (good ones) but the squad we have is capable of being more successful in this division, AT has a big input into that because if you accept the players are potentially better than they are showing who does that leave?. As he says himself football is a results business - rightly or wrongly he is and will be judged on that - his record by anyones standards is poor. Forget the excuses, reasons, justifications that is the fact - 5 wins in 28 many other clubs would have shown him the door by now

SkyBlueScottie · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Carsley. Doing wonders with the academy.

What wonders are these? I believe he is a coach with the Academy which to be fair has always been pretty decent, and has been in charge of a couple of reserve (behind closed doors friendlies) games.

lordsummerisle · Nov 23, 2011

Jim said:
If the players do not want to try, what magical wand could Thorn wave?

At another club he could stop playing them and replacements found via loan or purchase. That cant happen at CCFC, so he is stuck with a mix of youngsters with talent and no experience, poor players and players who clearly dont want to be here anymore. That is not a good combination but there is nothing the man can do.

What practical solution can you suggest to improve this situation?

Most of whom he brought into the club, should be sacked as scout as well.

torchomatic · Nov 23, 2011

I, for one, do not want Carsley as manager.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

SkyBlueScottie said:
What wonders are these? I believe he is a coach with the Academy which to be fair has always been pretty decent, and has been in charge of a couple of reserve (behind closed doors friendlies) games.

ive got contacts up the academy and the players love working with Carsley. Were top of the league despite not having Bigi, Thomas, Christie playing.

He gets the young players working and enjoying the game.

Our first team at the moment are not enjoying it and the manager has to take the flack for that.

Thorn is a scout, nothing more.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

torchomatic said:
I, for one, do not want Carsley as manager.

......Why not?

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

Think you would find that Carsley would say he wasnt ready for it

What about McPake he is a Uefa B coach better qualified than AT (not serious btw)

covkid64 · Nov 23, 2011

dazzled2u said:
There is no right man for this Job!!!!!!!!

I would say it's a poisoned chalice but SISU have sold the chalice and its more like trying to hold liquid in your cupped hands. The resources you had at the beginning are trickling through your fingers leaving you trying to balnce the little you have left.

There is no manager in the football league that could turn what we have left of a squad into a viable Championship team. Yes we have promising youngsters but youngsters make mistakes and thats how the learn. Youngsters also flourish better in a winning team as it builds their confidence.

Yes we have a half decent defence - but no matter how good a defence a good attacking team will still make chances and score goals.

I'm not saying Thorn is the best manager in the world and yes I'd probably pick another manager but I see little point in changing him for somebody else when there's nothing to manage!

hear hear! At last someone on here with comon sense and a practicle view! Thorn is a man trying to do the best he can but let's not forget that he has experienced men around him who are very well respected within football! Carsley walked into a very well set up academy team and all of a sudden people are pilling plaudits upon him but what has he really done? We need to be realistic and remember that we will never attract high profile managers to our club because 1 SISU won't pay the wages! 2 SISU won't give them any money to spend and 3 who would want to take on a job where all the fans are going to do is slate and critisize him!

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