Fan ownership will never work (1 Viewer)

skybluetony176 · Sep 29, 2014

Apparently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29408776

Fair play to them.

Evo1883 · Sep 29, 2014

I didnt even look , as im guessing its about pompey , yes fair play to them , they have hit rock bottom and with attendances of 17000 in league 2 , with the revenue generated from that and other things , i imagine a steady climb back to the championship over the next 3-5 years .

skybluetony176 · Sep 29, 2014

CraigSBA said:
I didnt even look , as im guessing its about pompey , yes fair play to them , they have hit rock bottom and with attendances of 17000 in league 2 , with the revenue generated from that and other things , i imagine a steady climb back to the championship over the next 3-5 years .

The story is they've just announced that they're now debt free.

Evo1883 · Sep 29, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
The story is they've just announced that they're now debt free.

Yes i read today , congrats to them .

Rusty Trombone · Sep 29, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
The story is they've just announced that they're now debt free.

Good that they are following in our footsteps.

No Debt says Fisher
Coventry City CEO Tim Fisher has said that the Sky Blues do not have any debts.

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/we_have_no_debts__fisher_757433/index.shtml

Warwickhunt · Sep 29, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
The story is they've just announced that they're now debt free.

is that the SISU debt free logic or the Finacial Industry term?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Sep 29, 2014

Fair play to them.....but could never happen for us....we are up a totally different shit creek to the one they visited.....

....and they were only lacking paddles......we've not even got a fucking canoe....

WestEndAgro · Sep 29, 2014

Oh no , I fear another "Pompey what the xvxv" thread coming !

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 29, 2014

I don't believe total fan ownership will work unless you have a strong leader as everybody sees everything differently. It also only works at a lower level when you get the championship up you are playing with the big boys and people with billions sploshing about look how Burnley are struggling.

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 29, 2014

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Fair play to them.....but could never happen for us....we are up a totally different shit creek to the one they visited.....

....and they were only lacking paddles......we've not even got a fucking canoe....

Sisu sold the canoe and paddles years ago.

stupot07 · Sep 29, 2014

Probably helps that they could buy their stadium for what £1.5-2m?

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rupert_bear · Sep 29, 2014

Who would you put your money on getting back to the championship or higher first us or Pompey ?

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 29, 2014

Them we hardly have a great history of being promoted.

stupot07 · Sep 29, 2014

Us. Just.

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Rusty Trombone · Sep 29, 2014

I'm not sure they are debt free, the official statement just refers to the old debts being cleared. I think we're all experts now at reading between the lines, and this does appear to be a carefully worded statement.

"Portsmouth Community Football Club would like to announce that all legacy debts taken on by the club as part of its exit from administration in April 2013 have now been fully settled.

Everybody at the club has worked hard in reorganising our operations during the past 18 months and the legacy debts were a significant liability hanging over this ongoing process".

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/news/article/legacy-debts-fully-settled-1975561.aspx

lapsed_skyblue · Sep 29, 2014

Maybe given their history they will be able to resist what is becoming the way that clubs get into trouble...

Fans cry out for more investment in the team to get more success. A white knight comes along and promises to pour in money and achieve great things. Fans hail the hero (maybe they even surrender their shares). The white knight turns out to be wearing a black hat.

skybluetony176 · Sep 29, 2014

Terry Gibson's perm said:
I don't believe total fan ownership will work unless you have a strong leader as everybody sees everything differently. It also only works at a lower level when you get the championship up you are playing with the big boys and people with billions sploshing about look how Burnley are struggling.

and Swansea. Look how they're struggling.

skybluetony176 · Sep 29, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
I'm not sure they are debt free, the official statement just refers to the old debts being cleared. I think we're all experts now at reading between the lines, and this does appear to be a carefully worded statement.

"Portsmouth Community Football Club would like to announce that all legacy debts taken on by the club as part of its exit from administration in April 2013 have now been fully settled.

Everybody at the club has worked hard in reorganising our operations during the past 18 months and the legacy debts were a significant liability hanging over this ongoing process".

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/news/article/legacy-debts-fully-settled-1975561.aspx

They're still more than a few steps ahead of us, all be it in a lower league. However, they've clearly hit the bottom of the cycle and are now on their way up. That's not something we can claim at this time.

Nick · Sep 29, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
and Swansea. Look how they're struggling.

Do their fans fully own the club?

chiefdave · Sep 29, 2014

stupot07 said:
Probably helps that they could buy their stadium for what £1.5-2m?

And they were loaned that money by the local council using my council tax! They also wrote off well over £100m in debt.

Rusty Trombone said:
I'm not sure they are debt free, the official statement just refers to the old debts being cleared.

Spot on, it's only debts prior to current ownership and the rumour down here is that those owed money have accepted a smaller pay-out (having already been negotiated down at least twice) in return for immediate payment.

One final thing to note, it's more than likely they aren't technically fan owned anymore. The trust only had just over 50% of the shares and the remaining owners have just had to dip their hands in their pockets to cover a 250K fundraising shortfall - was a crowd funding scheme where if they didn't hit the target they didn't get any of it.

Don't get me wrong they've done well and should be able to get to L1 or even the Championship without breaking the bank but there's already pressure from supporters to spend big and get them up the table as well as demands to increase stadium capacity - odd when it's never full as it is.

One of the owners is a spurs supporting property investor who owns land adjacent to Fratton Park, if I was them I would be a bit nervous about why he is involved.

Ian1779 · Sep 29, 2014

For every Pompey, you have a Rushden & Diamonds or Ebbsfleet.

will am i · Sep 29, 2014

i think pompy are a better comparison for us than rushden

letsallsingtogether · Sep 29, 2014

Of course not!!!
Didn't you know that All City fans are bandwagoners, Alcoholics, Stupid, not committed to the club, stay away shysters. Any other club it would work not here though.

And Pompey can buy their ground for 1-2 million fucking need 20 million spending on it just to upgrade it.

will am i said:
i think pompy are a better comparison for us than rushden

stupot07 · Sep 29, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
Of course not!!!
Didn't you know that All City fans are bandwagoners, Alcoholics, Stupid, not committed to the club, stay away shysters. Any other club it would work not here though.

And Pompey can buy their ground for 1-2 million fucking need 20 million spending on it just to upgrade it.

We certainly would get 17k in league two sitting 8th in the table....

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skybluetony176 · Sep 29, 2014

Nick said:
Do their fans fully own the club?

Their trust doesn't fully own the club if that's what you mean but I think it's fair to say that everyone involved in the ownership is a fan so I guess yes.

I think their ownership model is also the one being used at Portsmouth IIRC. Not sure what the ownership model is at Burnley to be honest.

Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 29, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
and Swansea. Look how they're struggling.

Struggled a bit last year but they are well run we wouldn't be too many people trying to be seen as important we would probably end up with Elliot as chairman again, Burnley are not fan owned but are an example of a club with no money that got promoted and then refused to sign players (after promising the fans they would this time) and then put in loads of offers for 5 million on players valued at 10 million so they could say they were trying but got turned down, I am a firm believer that the league should withold their £60 million as they as they haven't tried to spend anything and they don't need any parachute money as they haven't spent any. Rant over!

skybluetony176 · Sep 29, 2014

will am i said:
i think pompy are a better comparison for us than rushden

Wasn't it the perfect storm of hedge funds and a certain Mr Appleton that pushed it to the point where fan ownership was the only possible option left?

stupot07 · Sep 29, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
and Swansea. Look how they're struggling.

Swanseas fans only own 20% so I wouldn't particularly call that a fan ownership model.

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Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 29, 2014

stupot07 said:
Swanseas fans only own 20% so I wouldn't particularly call that a fan ownership model.

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I always thought it was more who owns the rest?

stupot07 · Sep 29, 2014

Terry Gibson's perm said:
I always thought it was more who owns the rest?

Exactly. High net worth individuals. No different to when we had shares and Robinson et al we're share holders.

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Terry Gibson's perm · Sep 29, 2014

stupot07 said:
Exactly. High net worth individuals. No different to when we had shares and Robinson et al we're share holders.

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Just had a look on wiki at wealth of owners all of the fan owned clubs are in the bottom leagues and all the rich mens play things are at the top as expected hardly seems fair that Aresnal's three majority shareholders are all billionaires can they not share one with us!

stupot07 · Sep 29, 2014

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Just had a look on wiki at wealth of owners all of the fan owned clubs are in the bottom leagues and all the rich mens play things are at the top as expected hardly seems fair that Aresnal's three majority shareholders are all billionaires can they not share one with us!

Orient's are owned by billionaires, so having a billionaire owner doesn't guarentee anything, bristol city too has a billionaire owner but will almost certainly not get to the PL.

What is clear though is that league two seems to be the glass ceiling for clubs where fans own a majority stake.

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Ian1779 · Sep 29, 2014

will am i said:
i think pompy are a better comparison for us than rushden

Neither situation is comparable to ours... but both are cautionary tales. Rushden & Diamonds were given the ground for free pretty much and still managed to go bust because amongst other things they didn't have the finance to run the club on a day to day basis.

This is the key point....

AndreasB · Sep 29, 2014

Oooh I wonder who our High Net Worth people would be??

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Rusty Trombone · Sep 29, 2014

AndreasB said:
Oooh I wonder who our High Net Worth people would be??

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