Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Wrong, people weren’t complaining as much about the personnel as they were about the instructions players had clearly been given by an over cautious manager.
Wrong, people weren’t complaining as much about the personnel as they were about the instructions players had clearly been given by an over cautious manager.The team was too unbalanced today because we packed the team with too much attacking talent.
Ironically, many people were calling for this kind of line up in the build up and during the Euros and today showed exactly why it doesn’t really work because you need to be able to defend.
It was an experiment well worth making, it just failed spectacularly. Over the next 18 months, we’ll need to tinker with combinations to get the team firing but without Kane, we still struggle for goals.
It can be both you know!Wrong, people weren’t complaining as much about the personnel as they were about the instructions players had clearly been given by an over cautious manager.
That was one of England's worst ever displays.
I am all for an attacking line-up, but not sure you can put Godden, Sakamoto AND Kasey Palmer all in there
I am pretty certain that not one single person called for the likes of a line-up that included Palmer and Saka and Gordon and Foden and Bellingham, all together in the same lineup and without a recognised striker.The team was too unbalanced today because we packed the team with too much attacking talent.
Ironically, many people were calling for this kind of line up in the build up and during the Euros and today showed exactly why it doesn’t really work because you need to be able to defend.
It was an experiment well worth making, it just failed spectacularly. Over the next 18 months, we’ll need to tinker with combinations to get the team firing but without Kane, we still struggle for goals.
Plenty of people said that they’d have played a midfield 3 of Rice, Foden and Bellingham and a front 3 of Palmer, Saka and Kane.I am pretty certain that not one single person called for the likes of a line-up that included Palmer and Saka and Gordon and Foden and Bellingham, all together in the same lineup and without a recognised striker.
Completely unbalanced. I am certain no-one called for that.
I would say that, that was an experiment that was most certainly not worth trying.
Plenty of people said that they’d have played a midfield 3 of Rice, Foden and Bellingham and a front 3 of Palmer, Saka and Kane.
Bellingham playing as a false 9 wasn’t a terrible idea ‘in theory’ and it’s concerning that without Kane we look bereft of ideas. I wasn’t enamoured with Watkins or Solanke when they came on but the same was true as Cov games; no clear cut chances!
I’m over it now, it was a good day out and as long as we win the group, it’ll be forgotten about down the line.
I don’t think it would work, we played something similar under Southgate and it looked underwhelming. Bellingham has played as a false 9 for most of Real Madrid’s games last year so it wasn’t a terrible idea on paper.To be fair , rice and bellingham should be able to play next to eachother with foden in a 10? you could even swap palmer and foden around I don't see an issue at all , also Bellingham is a central midfielder
We lost 4-0 against Hungary under Southgate in this competition.I don’t think it would work, we played something similar under Southgate and it looked underwhelming. Bellingham has played as a false 9 for most of Real Madrid’s games last year so it wasn’t a terrible idea on paper.
Looking at the bench yesterday, there wasn’t many game changers on it because we stacked the team with too much talent.
For both of Greece’s goals, it was just elementary defending and if you’ve got Foden and/or Palmer trying to make the last tackle, it’s probably not going to end well.
Last night, we most likely win this comfortably under Southgate, albeit unspectacularly.
I do recall that game v well, unfortunately.We lost 4-0 against Hungary under Southgate in this competition.
The team was too unbalanced today because we packed the team with too much attacking talent.
There’s still a lot of goals in that team, Watkins hasn’t always looked great for England when we’re ball-dominant.Lots of attacking/creative midfielders but not a single specialist striker in the starting lineup and a lack of proper defenders.
It's just weird.
I don't think Carsley got caught out with being too attacking, he got caught out playing too many attacking players and no front man.I do recall that game v well, unfortunately.
Carsley got caught out being too attacking on this occasion. I wouldn’t mind him taking the job still if we go on to win the Group. It’s a transitional phase for him and the team and one bad performance and result doesn’t make you a bad manager.
Yup. Bizarre.Lots of attacking/creative midfielders but not a single specialist striker in the starting lineup and a lack of proper defenders.
It's just weird.
At Real Madrid he had Vinicius Junior and Rodrygo bombing past him, and now had Mbappe. All of our wingers and number 10s want the ball deeper to run at people or do give and goes. You have to have width and a threat in behind with you play a false 9I don’t think it would work, we played something similar under Southgate and it looked underwhelming. Bellingham has played as a false 9 for most of Real Madrid’s games last year so it wasn’t a terrible idea on paper.
Looking at the bench yesterday, there wasn’t many game changers on it because we stacked the team with too much talent.
For both of Greece’s goals, it was just elementary defending and if you’ve got Foden and/or Palmer trying to make the last tackle, it’s probably not going to end well.
Last night, we most likely win this comfortably under Southgate, albeit unspectacularly.
Rice and Bellingham were great at the 2022 World Cup playing as central midfielders in a three man midfield so not sure what you on about it wouldn't work.I don’t think it would work, we played something similar under Southgate and it looked underwhelming. Bellingham has played as a false 9 for most of Real Madrid’s games last year so it wasn’t a terrible idea on paper.
Looking at the bench yesterday, there wasn’t many game changers on it because we stacked the team with too much talent.
For both of Greece’s goals, it was just elementary defending and if you’ve got Foden and/or Palmer trying to make the last tackle, it’s probably not going to end well.
Last night, we most likely win this comfortably under Southgate, albeit unspectacularly.
Does Anthony Gordon not have that profile? He’s obviously not to the standard Vini.At Real Madrid he had Vinicius Junior and Rodrygo bombing past him, and now had Mbappe. All of our wingers and number 10s want the ball deeper to run at people or do give and goes. You have to have width and a threat in behind with you play a false 9
"Everyone was excited at the prospect of having such an attacking line-up?"Does Anthony Gordon not have that profile? He’s obviously not to the standard Vini.
We tried something new and it didn’t pay off, it’s not too dissimilar to what other great teams have done before like Man City (Foden and KDB being false 9s) and Real Madrid with Bellingham. Or even some of the Spain teams in 2014 to 2020 on the international stage.
It didn’t work and highly doubt we’ll try this again. Imagine if it did work and we blew Greece away, we’d be talking about that line up being one to go into the 2026 World Cup and/or 2028 Euros.
Watkins and Solanke are good players but neither are amazing strikers that you would be confident in leading us to a major trophy. Both players are 27 and 28 so not exactly the future either.
I spoke to a few people before the game and everyone was excited at the prospect of having such an attacking line up - ‘I’d have like it had we done this at the Euros’ was said too. Hindsight is 20:20 and on this occasion, the result was a disaster. It was not enjoyable skipping my judo session to watch Greece put the ball in the net 5 times and another cleared off the line!
We played 4-2-3-1 in every game and Bellingham was a 10.Rice and Bellingham were great at the 2022 World Cup playing as central midfielders in a three man midfield so not sure what you on about it wouldn't work.
Wasn't a success in the end at that tournament but arguably the best we've looked under Southgate and an unfortunate loss to France, miles better than what we saw in the Euros jus gone.
What would your team be for Sunday Otis?"Everyone was excited at the prospect of having such an attacking line-up?"
We must move in different circles.
Looked completely disjointed to me and a complete overload on attacking midfielders.
When I saw the lineup, my first thought was "what the hell!"
Bellingham was definitely not a number 10, Rice was an anchor and it was Mount/Henderson and Bellingham playing as two box to box to midfielders in a midfield 3.d Bellingham was a 10.
Bellingham at CM in a 4-3-3 should work, but who plays with them? There needs to be an anchor to let those players operate which leads to one of Mainoo or Angel Gomes - both of whom did well v ROI and Finaland. Who then is dropped out of Palmer, Foden, Gordon and Saka? All top players and it’s not easy to fit them in and Kane.
Depends on who's fitWhat would your team be for Sunday Otis?
Bellingham was definitely not a number 10, Rice was an anchor and it was Mount/Henderson and Bellingham playing as two box to box to midfielders in a midfield 3.
Go look at the goals I mentioned v Senegal and you will see they came from Bellingham starting from central midfield and breaking forward.
Depends on who's fit
Is Mainoo now out of the picture completely, or was he just missing for last night?
I would drop Foden, for one, and I am a huge fan of his, but it's just not working out right now at England level.
Is Kane fit now? I am not very sure on who's fit or available.
Even though I thought he had a poor game, I think I would give Palmer another chance. I would look for Saka or Gordon to make way.
I wouldn't play Lewis either. I think he struggled at times last night.
Problem is Foden will drift inside, Trent will have his free role and spent most of the game playing centre midfield and we will have nothing on the left at all. At least on the right when Palmer drifts in Walker will overlap. You can't play inverted wingers and inverted full backs.You are probably right actually - 2022 was his breakthrough and then started to play further forward for England. The original point is that Bellingham has not played with Rice together in a midfield two to great affect so the midfield needs someone like Mainoo or Gomes besides Rice to allow Foden/Bellingham to play in there.
The only issue is that one of our stars is going to find their minutes cut and it's a difficult conundrum to solve.
Mainoo pulled out the squad and Kane is supposed to be fit for Sunday.
I agree the team was too unbalanced but it's an experiment worth having.
The midfield was obviously a problem because you had Rice as an anchor with Palmer and Foden. No one was in a natural role here. This weakness was compounded by the defence too, Trent and Lewis playing and being really high up was too attacking - you needed either Walker or Colwill to play RB/LB to give a flat 3 in possession. We needed someone to spearhead the attack.
Personally, for Finland I’d like to see something like:
Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi Trent
Rice Gomes Bellingham
Palmer Kane Foden
Some selections take rotation into account and the team probably lacks runners so Gordon for Palmer/Foden.
I think don’t think it’s wise to give up on getting 3 of Bellingham-Palmer-Foden-Saka in the same team yet. This 2024-2026 cycle we need really figure out how to get Foden/Palmer and Bellingham in the same team and playing well. It will require a lot of experimentation.
Taking Carsley’s principles from the U21s, that’s fine because it’s designed to attack space which we did to great affect in the 2 prior games.Problem is Foden will drift inside, Trent will have his free role and spent most of the game playing centre midfield and we will have nothing on the left at all. At least on the right when Palmer drifts in Walker will overlap. You can't play inverted wingers and inverted full backs.
Yeah it will be fine we're playing teams ranked 62 and 64 in the world. We'd get hammered against a decent side. You need width, you need to make the pitch as big as possible to create space, look at Spain, Yamal and Williams virtually hug the touchline, when they do drift in the fullbacks produce the width.Taking Carsley’s principles from the U21s, that’s fine because it’s designed to attack space which we did to great affect in the 2 prior games.
The problems we have will require creative solutions and Carsley is right when he said we have to open to putting players in different positions.
If we went with that lineup I’d expect Walker to function similarly to how he does when we play 3-4-3.
Without a standout LB likely to emerge between now and 2026, the future England backline will look something like:
Trent-Stones-Guehi-Colwill
That allows us to have a natural 3-2-5 shape in possession that is in fashion atm.
Both of Spain’s wingers you mentioned also invert because they both play on the opposite side of the dominant foot.Yeah it will be fine we're playing teams ranked 62 and 64 in the world. We'd get hammered against a decent side. You need width, you need to make the pitch as big as possible to create space, look at Spain, Yamal and Williams virtually hug the touchline, when they do drift in the fullbacks produce the width.
Watkins scored the winner after 3 mins of being on in the Euro Semi-Final. What is not to like about him?Plenty of people said that they’d have played a midfield 3 of Rice, Foden and Bellingham and a front 3 of Palmer, Saka and Kane.
Bellingham playing as a false 9 wasn’t a terrible idea ‘in theory’ and it’s concerning that without Kane we look bereft of ideas. I wasn’t enamoured with Watkins or Solanke when they came on but the same was true as Cov games; no clear cut chances!
I’m over it now, it was a good day out and as long as we win the group, it’ll be forgotten about down the line.
His performances in qualification weren’t great.Watkins scored the winner after 3 mins of being on in the Euro Semi-Final. What is not to like about him?
Very good breakdown of how the game was planned out and it all went wrong.His performances in qualification weren’t great.
I like Watkins and that moment in the Euros was one of the best footballing moments I’ve experienced at a game. That said, I don’t think he’ll ever be a first choice because he’s not young enough to be a Kane successor per se. It wasn’t inherently a terrible idea to play with a false 9 because both Foden and Bellingham have done it for their clubs. On this occasion, it just didn’t work. We ended the match playing 4-4-2 and Watkins missed a good opportunity.
This is an interesting video for anyone who fancies it - the author is very much pro-Carsley as a disclaimer.
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