Ellis Simms (3 Viewers)

[biggymania]

According to the model purists on here you can't have loans, experienced leaders or players at the top of their career. According to them the squad has to be made up entirely of young prospects who have high potential sell on values, so that we improve in the long term.

I get these are the sorts of players we need to invest in. However, a truly successful team at this level also needs a balance of experience and the extra quality that loans from the Premier League bring, together with a number of established players at the height of their careers.

Bringing in prospects, developing them and making a profit is a big part of success but on its own it isn’t enough. You need a balanced squad to get promoted from this league.

You're missing a key point here (I am not sure anybody has said "no loans", but lets ignore that) which is that each cycle of sales is levelling up the entire squad in that model. So you will reach a critical mass where you have a squad capable of promotion who haven't reach the peak of their value, because we've gotten a bigger and bigger transfer budget each time. We're only really one decent talent cycle into this model under this ownership, so perhaps just see how it plays out and then come back and point to this post.

 

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[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Agree with those, plus, Hartson and Babb.

And Keane

 

[Hertsccfc]

You're missing a key point here (I am not sure anybody has said "no loans", but lets ignore that) which is that each cycle of sales is levelling up the entire squad in that model. So you will reach a critical mass where you have a squad capable of promotion who haven't reach the peak of their value, because we've gotten a bigger and bigger transfer budget each time. We're only really one decent talent cycle into this model under this ownership, so perhaps just see how it plays out and then come back and point to this post.

I am pretty sure that I understand your point and how you see the supposed model working. However, I am not convinced I see it working like that. Respectfully I am not sure you're understanding what I am saying though, but I think we should leave it there.

As it happens I do not believe that we will follow a rigid model, certainly not if Robins stays as manager, as I think he will insist on more experience, depth and quality in the squad next year.

As Sick Boy said I think this idea that we are doing a Brentford or Brighton is a bit of a nonsense.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

If we end up selling him I’d start to feel pretty disillusioned.

I agree. EVERYONE has a price. The improvement in his touch, hold up play, leading the line has been incredible. Not to even mention his goals.

Woukd not surprise me if he bags a another couple vs QPR.

 

[False9]

According to the model purists on here you can't have loans, experienced leaders or players at the top of their career. According to them the squad has to be made up entirely of young prospects who have high potential sell on values, so that we improve in the long term.

I get these are the sorts of players we need to invest in. However, a truly successful team at this level also needs a balance of experience and the extra quality that loans from the Premier League bring, together with a number of established players at the height of their careers.

Bringing in prospects, developing them and making a profit is a big part of success but on its own it isn’t enough. You need a balanced squad to get promoted from this league.

I think a sprinkling of quality via a loan makes sense and we might see more of that now we have an actual contracted squad. This season was all about transition and building solid foundations... Arguably we didn't do that in defence/goal but that was the idea.

I can't see how we attract championship players at the top of their game, they will always be out of reach to us.

Our average squad age is similar to most clubs and older than Leeds, Southampton so I'm not sure experience is the missing ingredient. Our experienced players underperformed this year - Godden, Wilson, Allen, Kelly, mcfadz , Palmer, JDS.

 

[biggymania]

I am pretty sure that I understand your point and how you see the supposed model working. However, I am not convinced I see it working like that. Respectfully I am not sure you're understanding what I am saying though, but I think we should leave it there.

Please take this in good faith because I want to understand where you're coming from. I think this season we have sold 2 key players and levelled up the squad with multiple 1M+ signings, most of whom will very likely be sold for more than we purchased them for. What is it that you don't see working - if we assume we repeat that with our current or future top talents?

 

[robbiekeane]

Honestly, football is just a mis-directed output for a bunch of untreated anxiety

Perfectly summarised

 

[MrBlueFace]

I am pretty sure that I understand your point and how you see the supposed model working. However, I am not convinced I see it working like that. Respectfully I am not sure you're understanding what I am saying though, but I think we should leave it there.

As it happens I do not believe that we will follow a rigid model, certainly not if Robins stays as manager, as I think he will insist on more experience, depth and quality in the squad next year.

As Sick Boy said I think this idea that we are doing a Brentford or Brighton is a bit of a nonsense.

We should be doing a Dortmund. They've established themselves amongst Europe's elite by trading players very wisely. Some huge sales with Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham and others over the years. They've still got Hummels for his experience though.

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

T

We should be doing a Dortmund. They've established themselves amongst Europe's elite by trading players very wisely. Some huge sales with Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham and others over the years. They've still got Hummels for his experience t

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

T

In terms of transfers yes although I wish we had their average crowd of 82000 lol.

 

[Hutch11]

I wish we had their "wall" , fkin impressive

 

[SBAndy]

The point is to sign players who will already be at the standard you want when the player ahead of him is sold. So as opposed to going ‘oh shit we need a right back’, we have one ready made.

It’d be quite nice, although in practice I have doubts over whether it’d work, to sign players in the summer and sell in January. You’d then hope that the new signings had sufficient time to get up to speed to act more as a ready-made replacement.

 

[Deity]

The model is super easy to understand …:

You buy and develop talented players to sell on
You add to that a couple of experienced pro’s to help with that growth and to give the team match day smarts.
You add 1 or 2 loans where the budget won’t stretch to perm signings of a similar calibre.

 

[Sick Boy]

The model is super easy to understand …:

You buy and develop talented players to sell on
You add to that a couple of experienced pro’s to help with that growth and to give the team match day smarts.
You add 1 or 2 loans where the budget won’t stretch to perm signings of a similar calibre.

Isn’t that the same for most clubs?

 

[Deity]

Isn’t that the same for most clubs?

Yes. Not all clubs.

Hull for example have gone for the loan route and hope for a promo that way.

Leicester have gambled on established players on big wages and hoped promo would bail them out.

Wolves, and Brentford targeted one particular nationality of player to try to atttact a slighter better player from that country … Wolves ( Portugal ) and Brentford ( Denmark )



However I agree many clubs are trying to follow the Brighton model. The key is to have the funds to actually buy top talent and then the scouting network to identify it !

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes. Not all clubs.

Hull for example have gone for the loan route and hope for a promo that way.

Leicester have gambled on established players on big wages and hoped promo would bail them out.

Wolves, and Brentford targeted one particular nationality of player to try to atttact a slighter better player from that country … Wolves ( Portugal ) and Brentford ( Denmark )



However I agree many clubs are trying to follow the Brighton model. The key is to have the funds to actually buy top talent and then the scouting network to identify it !

Most clubs can't follow the Brighton model because they don't have owners funding the club with 100s of millions; we certainly aren't.

 

[Deity]

Most clubs can't follow the Brighton model because they don't have owners funding the club with 100s of millions; we certainly aren't.

I think we are but from a lower investment start point ….

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes. Not all clubs.

Hull for example have gone for the loan route and hope for a promo that way.

Leicester have gambled on established players on big wages and hoped promo would bail them out.

Wolves, and Brentford targeted one particular nationality of player to try to atttact a slighter better player from that country … Wolves ( Portugal ) and Brentford ( Denmark )



However I agree many clubs are trying to follow the Brighton model. The key is to have the funds to actually buy top talent and then the scouting network to identify it !

Bristol C have gone in on the academy, bearing a lot of fruit from that. Problem for us is we’re surrounded by clubs who can hoover up the talent whereas they’re pretty much on their own.

 

[skybluecam]

I disagree. You end up always with inconsistency playing prospects rather than players at the top of their game.

I think Thomas and Kitching will be really good players but they will leave once they are for example. We'll have them while they are making mistakes regularly.

Buying and keeping players in their "prime" (26-30 ish) is the most expensive way to run a club. Transfer fees for them will be high, their wage demands will be high and when it's time for them to move on you will get less for them and may also struggle to shift them because of said wage demands.

You're going to have to get used to us buying and playing young, developing players.