Dutch/Belgian league merge (1 Viewer)

Covstu · Mar 18, 2021

Will be Interesting to see how this plays out and whether it starts more league merges in the future. Don’t know much about the Belgian league or many of the teams in there, obvously anderlecht, liege, Brugge and maybe Antwerp (as the Gers played them!). Dutch league a bit more obvious but the league isn’t strong after the big 3. Travel a factor but if it increases the quality then surely a good thing?

I wonder if this is a start of other merges, Scandinavian leagues an obvious one, it will also inevitably raise the scotland thing again! The on,y concern is this is the catalyst for the super leagues that uefa have been banging on about not take the big teams from each league

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 18, 2021

The Dutch system is weird. By the time you get to the second division, there are a lot of B teams from big clubs in there making the numbers up.

As you said, the imbalance in the top flight is crazy too. It's a hard league to bet on because the odds are just never worth putting your money on.

The Scandinavian leagues are pretty poor too, and I could see how a merger there would work. Other than 5 or 6 teams in the Allsvenskan, there generally is a low quality. Worse in Norway and Denmark.

Covstu · Mar 18, 2021

I think geography will be a key factor for ‘normal’ teams, travelling the breadth of two countries for a small team would be a major factor especially mid week. Plymouth to Ross county for example, adding cost and pressure on buckling finances. In the Dutch league I fancied AZ this year but Ajax walking away with it

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 18, 2021

The countries are pretty small really. Obviously there will be some exceptions, but if Ajax were playing Anderlecht, it's only about a two hour drive.

wingy · Mar 18, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The countries are pretty small really. Obviously there will be some exceptions, but if Ajax were playing Anderlecht, it's only about a two hour drive.

That was my thoughts ,at least drivable unlike the Nordic one's I think.

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon · Mar 18, 2021

wingy said:
That was my thoughts ,at least drivable unlike the Nordic one's I think.

Yeah, not many going from Tromso to Stockholm for a tuesday night fixture i'd expect! I wonder if the Dutch-Belgian system might have a top tier that's combined and then a regional approach below that? It should make that league in general alot more competitive though you'd think, might put some of the bigger clubs off if they think they're less likely to qualify for Europe?

rondog1973 · Mar 18, 2021

Always thought a celtic league (all Ireland, Scotland and Wales) would be a good proposition, if only to break the old firm monopoly.

Liquid Gold · Mar 18, 2021

You'd think if it was a Scandinavian one it would only be top division then regional/national ones below.

TomRad85 · Mar 18, 2021

First I've heard of this but seems a good idea to me.

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Covstu · Mar 18, 2021

rondog1973 said:
Always thought a celtic league (all Ireland, Scotland and Wales) would be a good proposition, if only to break the old firm monopoly.

But would it? Swansea and Cardiff aren’t going to go back to that when they can get prem cash?

Covstu · Mar 18, 2021

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon said:
Yeah, not many going from Tromso to Stockholm for a tuesday night fixture i'd expect! I wonder if the Dutch-Belgian system might have a top tier that's combined and then a regional approach below that? It should make that league in general alot more competitive though you'd think, might put some of the bigger clubs off if they think they're less likely to qualify for Europe?

Good point on europe spots, assume they now have both spots combined?

rondog1973 · Mar 18, 2021

Covstu said:
But would it? Swansea and Cardiff aren’t going to go back to that when they can get prem cash?

Prem cash they get the occasional nibble of or undoubted challengers for championship honours and thus European cash?

cowboy1850 · Mar 19, 2021

Belgian football seems very familiar with merges. Over the past 25 years financial difficulties resulted in a few Belgian clubs merging, some clubs merged with rivals. And even after the merges some clubs have dropped down the league's, and off the radar (RWD Molenbeek, a club of previous merges who used to play in the top Jupiter league are now lost in the lower end of the Belgian league system).

Can you imagine us merging with Aston Villa or Leicester? I wonder how Belgian fans have taken these mergers.

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon · Mar 19, 2021

Covstu said:
Good point on europe spots, assume they now have both spots combined?

Possibly, although that would presumably mean alot of any combined top division being able to qualify for something? Now i dont spend all my time playing Champ Manager im alot less familiar with how many places each league gets!

ovduk78 · Mar 19, 2021

cowboy1850 said:
Belgian football seems very familiar with merges. Over the past 25 years financial difficulties resulted in a few Belgian clubs merging, some clubs merged with rivals. And even after the merges some clubs have dropped down the league's, and off the radar (RWD Molenbeek, a club of previous merges who used to play in the top Jupiter league are now lost in the lower end of the Belgian league system).

Can you imagine us merging with Aston Villa or Leicester? I wonder how Belgian fans have taken these mergers.

I watched RWDM for 2 seasons in 2000-2 and in the 2nd season they finished 8th in the Jupiler league but were relegated 3 divisions for financial irregularities, ie not paying taxman. They are now back in the 2nd division as RWDM 47. Some mergers have not gone through because of fan objections, before RWDM were formed Union Brussels were talking with Molenbeek but fan objections stopped that. Union have been promoted to the Jupiler league for next season thanks to a wealthy English owner.

In regards to this BeNe proposal, it will have 8 Belgian and 10 Dutch teams but they are picking the 7 biggest Belgian teams plus 1 other and not the top 8 teams which will be a kick in the teeth for clubs like Ostende & Leuven (owned by LCFC's owners) who have done well in the last couple of seasons. The rest of the teams will form drop into a 2nd division or a Belgian 1st division. There will be promotion & relegation but I don't know if they will try and maintain the 8/10 split. It just looks like the top teams of Belgian and the Netherlands are looking after just themselves!

TomRad85 · Mar 19, 2021

ovduk78 said:
I watched RWDM for 2 seasons in 2000-2 and in the 2nd season they finished 8th in the Jupiler league but were relegated 3 divisions for financial irregularities, ie not paying taxman. They are now back in the 2nd division as RWDM 47. Some mergers have not gone through because of fan objections, before RWDM were formed Union Brussels were talking with Molenbeek but fan objections stopped that. Union have been promoted to the Jupiler league for next season thanks to a wealthy English owner.

In regards to this BeNe proposal, it will have 8 Belgian and 10 Dutch teams but they are picking the 7 biggest Belgian teams plus 1 other and not the top 8 teams which will be a kick in the teeth for clubs like Ostende & Leuven (owned by LCFC's owners) who have done well in the last couple of seasons. The rest of the teams will form drop into a 2nd division or a Belgian 1st division. There will be promotion & relegation but I don't know if they will try and maintain the 8/10 split. It just looks like the top teams of Belgian and the Netherlands are looking after just themselves!

The last bit is what confuses me. Say the bottom 3 teams are all Belgian, how do they sort who is promoted?

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cowboy1850 · Mar 19, 2021

ovduk78 said:
I watched RWDM for 2 seasons in 2000-2 and in the 2nd season they finished 8th in the Jupiler league but were relegated 3 divisions for financial irregularities, ie not paying taxman. They are now back in the 2nd division as RWDM 47. Some mergers have not gone through because of fan objections, before RWDM were formed Union Brussels were talking with Molenbeek but fan objections stopped that. Union have been promoted to the Jupiler league for next season thanks to a wealthy English owner.

In regards to this BeNe proposal, it will have 8 Belgian and 10 Dutch teams but they are picking the 7 biggest Belgian teams plus 1 other and not the top 8 teams which will be a kick in the teeth for clubs like Ostende & Leuven (owned by LCFC's owners) who have done well in the last couple of seasons. The rest of the teams will form drop into a 2nd division or a Belgian 1st division. There will be promotion & relegation but I don't know if they will try and maintain the 8/10 split. It just looks like the top teams of Belgian and the Netherlands are looking after just themselves!

Thank you for your information. I used to have a minor interest in Belgian football 20 years ago but obviously don't know as much as you. Are you based in Belgium?

ovduk78 · Mar 19, 2021

cowboy1850 said:
Thank you for your information. I used to have a minor interest in Belgian football 20 years ago but obviously don't know as much as you. Are you based in Belgium?

No. I lived in Brussels for a couple of years and was friends with a RWDM fan and used to go to games with him. He keeps me up to date with what's going on which is good as the BBC don't give much time to it.

Evo1883 · Mar 19, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The Dutch system is weird. By the time you get to the second division, there are a lot of B teams from big clubs in there making the numbers up.

As you said, the imbalance in the top flight is crazy too. It's a hard league to bet on because the odds are just never worth putting your money on.

The Scandinavian leagues are pretty poor too, and I could see how a merger there would work. Other than 5 or 6 teams in the Allsvenskan, there generally is a low quality. Worse in Norway and Denmark.

I hear you, however

The prem has had 6 winners in the last 26 years

The Dutch league 5 winners in the last 26 years

I'm the last 3 years there's been 3 different winners in Holland

2 in the prem and will soon be 2 in 4 years.

The prem is just as unbalanced tbh..
Liverpool decimated it last year... City have won something silly like 22 games in a row

SBAndy · Mar 19, 2021

TomRad85 said:
The last bit is what confuses me. Say the bottom 3 teams are all Belgian, how do they sort who is promoted?

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Guessing it would be a case of 1 promoted from Belgium, 1 from Netherlands and then a playoff between the 2nd places.

TomRad85 · Mar 19, 2021

SBAndy said:
Guessing it would be a case of 1 promoted from Belgium, 1 from Netherlands and then a playoff between the 2nd places.

But where do the relegated teams go if they are all from one country?

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Covstu · Mar 19, 2021

TomRad85 said:
But where do the relegated teams go if they are all from one country?

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Luxembourg

dutchman · Mar 20, 2021

Beneliga? Dutch clubs skeptical

The Belgian clubs are unanimously behind the arrival of a Beneliga, but from a Dutch perspective things are not going that fast. There are still many major hurdles to overcome, starting with the distribution of European tickets.

The Belgian clubs came out this week with a collective declaration of intent: all clubs are open to a Beneliga by 2024, including the smaller clubs that are lagging behind in the Belgian league.

In the Netherlands, this message is viewed with some surprise, as there are still many uncertainties about the project. The ten 'large' Dutch clubs that are directly affiliated with the working group are taking a cautious attitude for the time being - and that certainly applies to all other Dutch BVOs. The plan has not been abandoned, but the directors involved are still mainly skeptical about the chances of success.

Covstu · Mar 20, 2021

dutchman said:
Beneliga? Dutch clubs skeptical

The Belgian clubs are unanimously behind the arrival of a Beneliga, but from a Dutch perspective things are not going that fast. There are still many major hurdles to overcome, starting with the distribution of European tickets.

The Belgian clubs came out this week with a collective declaration of intent: all clubs are open to a Beneliga by 2024, including the smaller clubs that are lagging behind in the Belgian league.

In the Netherlands, this message is viewed with some surprise, as there are still many uncertainties about the project. The ten 'large' Dutch clubs that are directly affiliated with the working group are taking a cautious attitude for the time being - and that certainly applies to all other Dutch BVOs. The plan has not been abandoned, but the directors involved are still mainly skeptical about the chances of success.

Interesting to see how this plays out so basic it will discard the other non ‘big’ clubs which could mean their end!

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 24, 2021

TomRad85 said:
The last bit is what confuses me. Say the bottom 3 teams are all Belgian, how do they sort who is promoted?

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Probably will be done among regional lines i.e. playoffs between Dutch and Belgian leagues.

It seems like a good idea in principle as there are a good 8-10 teams in those leagues. But, I can’t see Ajax’s dominance being challenged anytime soon.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 24, 2021

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Probably will be done among regional lines i.e. playoffs between Dutch and Belgian leagues.

It seems like a good idea in principle as there are a good 8-10 teams in those leagues. But, I can’t see Ajax’s dominance being challenged anytime soon.

Ajax have only won it once in the last 5 seasons.....not exactly dominance I'd say.

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 24, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Ajax have only won it once in the last 5 seasons.....not exactly dominance I'd say.

Fair enough, poor choice of words because it's largely based on their performance this season and their form when they had that CL semi-final team.

A more accurate thing for me to have said that Ajax will remain the preeminent team in a BeNe league.

Liquid Gold · Mar 24, 2021

I always though PSV and Feyenoord gave Ajax some pretty decent competition.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 24, 2021

Liquid Gold said:
I always though PSV and Feyenoord gave Ajax some pretty decent competition.

To be honest I think Amsterdam's biggest threat is HPV

Dutch/Belgian league merge (1 Viewer)

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