Drink + Independent Inquiry petition + £1million questions (1 Viewer)

Jack Griffin · Feb 10, 2014

torchomatic said:
Not sure about having a go at City for not spending the money on players straight away, Michael. Maybe the players Presley wanted weren't available and Clarke didn't go until very late in the Window so we might not have had chance. And finally would you rather we just spent it on players who happen to be available or do you want the right players? I trust Pressley.

I think financial controls are important to have in place and that is something SISU are doing now, BUT the reason why finances are so tight and there is very little money to spend on the team is precisely because of this cockamamie move to Sixfields. If the club was in its proper home in Coventry then the purse would be a little fuller and very likely the momentum of the season could be sustained by bringing in adequate replacements, the money I guess has simply gone to plug the gaping hole in Timmys "7,000 crowds if we do well" estimate.

It is yet to become clear if the team was substantially weakened by Clarkes departure and if we are at the start of a decline in player quality that will lead to mediocre league performance in division 3, but I wouldn't rule it out. At the end of this season Murphy, Christie & Moussa are out of contract, there is no sign they're likely to sign contract extensions, if they don't they'll have to be replaced and then the situation becomes clearer. Personally I expect Christie & Moussa to be replaced by loanees and another goalie to be brought in for Murphy. Clarke also needs replacing at the end of the season as Delefonso is only on loan till then.

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

Why are people sniping Michael for this mailout?

There are some valid points, what is going to happen with the money from the Arsenal game, and the sale of Leon Clarke?

Could it not pay for matchday costs at the Ricoh? Rather than fund losses at Sixfields?

Would people have been happier if Michael had put "How dare ACL do business with others after SISU have said they are not interested" ........?

Ashdown1 · Feb 10, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Edgy your two posts are spot on, the main thing to take from it all is that CCCouncil, Sisu, McGinnity and most importantly Brian Richardson are all to blame for the reason we are playing in Northampton, all through from the beginning of the idea, through to the land deal with Tesco, the Arena's rent and Sisu not wanting to negotiate with the Council, the council have spunged off the Club no doubt, but it is time that this issue gets sorted out once and for all because the Arena (and I am not it's biggest fan) is a magnificent sporting arena to be sat there with no Club making the most out of it is shameful.

Spounged off the club ?? No, I wouldn't put it like that at all. They provided a viable commercial partner to complete the stadium and kit it out when the club had completely run out of money/Lenders, they then as custodians and owners had to negotiate contracts for all other commercial revenues. Lets not forget they also had debts to service and still do.
Do I think they got a bit greedy and forgot who would be bringing the footfall to the arena..........Yes I do !! Do I think the rent agreed was too high..............Yes I do ! The truth is the club had never been weaker or more desperate in terms of cash flow and credit but SISU had a chance to put that right but they didn't, they continued to let wankers off the pitch like Ray Ranson exploit the club and incompetent dicks on it like Chris Coleman spend a fortune on unaffordable wages...........the rest is history and yes I also believe SISU are victims in this in terms of their piss poor advisors and lack of due diligence and their failure to appoint the right staff to turn things around in a financially viable way !

torchomatic · Feb 10, 2014

I'm not sniping. I'm discussing, sometimes agreeing and sometimes disagreeing. Isn't what this board is all about or did I get that wrong?

lewys33 said:
Why are people sniping Michael for this mailout?

There are some valid points, what is going to happen with the money from the Arsenal game, and the sale of Leon Clarke?

Could it not pay for matchday costs at the Ricoh? Rather than fund losses at Sixfields?

Would people have been happier if Michael had put "How dare ACL do business with others after SISU have said they are not interested" ........?

dongonzalos · Feb 10, 2014

lewys33 said:
Why are people sniping Michael for this mailout?

There are some valid points, what is going to happen with the money from the Arsenal game, and the sale of Leon Clarke?

Could it not pay for matchday costs at the Ricoh? Rather than fund losses at Sixfields?

Would people have been happier if Michael had put "How dare ACL do business with others after SISU have said they are not interested" ........?

Always easier to have a pop at those who do..... Especially when you are someone who doesn't....

It's about your own lack of get up and go.

mark82 · Feb 10, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
It's been reported that TF and ML have signed the epetition so I don's see how it's anti-sisu. I am pro team and pro fans and have never bought into being pro/anti acl/sisu - it's you and others who appear obsessed with interpreting every comment as evidence of being for or against sisu/the council/acl or whoever it is you support

I think he's talking about the bit criticising Sisu rather than the petition.

torchomatic · Feb 10, 2014

I don't think anyone - certainly not me - disagrees with the fact that moving to Sixfields will have a direct impact on the finances available for team strengthening. And yes, the team is a lot weaker without Clarke, but he wanted to go and his past record suggests it would only be a matter of time. Hopefully SP will get some money to be able to get some players in - either permanently in the summer or now on loan players wages.

In the circumstances I can't see what else we can do which is why I disagree with the "where has the £1M gone?"

Jack Griffin said:
I think financial controls are important to have in place and that is something SISU are doing now, BUT the reason why finances are so tight and there is very little money to spend on the team is precisely because of this cockamamie move to Sixfields. If the club was in its proper home in Coventry then the purse would be a little fuller and very likely the momentum of the season could be sustained by bringing in adequate replacements, the money I guess has simply gone to plug the gaping hole in Timmys "7,000 crowds if we do well" estimate.

It is yet to become clear if the team was substantially weakened by Clarkes departure and if we are at the start of a decline in player quality that will lead to mediocre league performance in division 3, but I wouldn't rule it out. At the end of this season Murphy, Christie & Moussa are out of contract, there is no sign they're likely to sign contract extensions, if they don't they'll have to be replaced and then the situation becomes clearer. Personally I expect Christie & Moussa to be replaced by loanees and another goalie to be brought in for Murphy. Clarke also needs replacing at the end of the season as Delefonso is only on loan till then.

mark82 · Feb 10, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Always easier to have a pop at those who do..... Especially when you are someone who doesn't....

It's about your own lack of get up and go.

Or sometimes it's about looking at the bleeding obvious staring you right in the face and accepting that the actions we fans are taking have consequences.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 10, 2014

Ashdown1 said:
Spounged off the club ?? No, I wouldn't put it like that at all. They provided a viable commercial partner to complete the stadium and kit it out when the club had completely run out of money/Lenders, they then as custodians and owners had to negotiate contracts for all other commercial revenues. Lets not forget they also had debts to service and still do.
Do I think they got a bit greedy and forgot who would be bringing the footfall to the arena..........Yes I do !! Do I think the rent agreed was too high..............Yes I do ! The truth is the club had never been weaker or more desperate in terms of cash flow and credit but SISU had a chance to put that right but they didn't, they continued to let wankers off the pitch like Ray Ranson exploit the club and incompetent dicks on it like Chris Coleman spend a fortune on unaffordable wages...........the rest is history and yes I also believe SISU are victims in this in terms of their piss poor advisors and lack of due diligence and their failure to appoint the right staff to turn things around in a financially viable way !

I agree that the Club weren't the only with debts and obviously this needed to be satisfied to the lenders, however the issue I have is if the Council and ACL can afford to charge the Club a rent of £100K a season (as per the latest offer) then why couldn't this had been agreed at the beginning? The Council took the Club for granted and spounged off them.

The fact that you have said yourself that they got a bit greedy and forgot who brought them there revenues via the Football proves it all.

I thank all the idiots I previosly named for putting us in this situation, I also hope Michael's petition gets to 100,000 signatures as soon as possible so that this can be taken in front of MP's and this mess can be sorted once for all, then if all those parties wouldn't mind awfully getting the hell out of our Football Club and never having anything to do with the Ricoh Arena or Coventry City FC again I'd be most grateful.

Ashdown1 · Feb 10, 2014

The other income streams that have developed over the years and the restructuring of the loan has enabled them to reduce the rent. I'm not sure about the discussions at the beginning but the club had it's begging bowl out and a set of weak and self interested negotiators ! Commercial decisions are made throughout the world at a time and with a given set of circumstances, lets not also forget the UK has been through it's longest recession since the 1930's since the jolly boys all got round the table !

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

torchomatic said:
I'm not sniping. I'm discussing, sometimes agreeing and sometimes disagreeing. Isn't what this board is all about or did I get that wrong?

For once torch, I wasn't aiming that at you

Jack Griffin · Feb 10, 2014

torchomatic said:
In the circumstances I can't see what else we can do which is why I disagree with the "where has the £1M gone?"

No, its obvious, they should stop pissing about in Northampton and come home.. then far more options open up.

MichaelCCFC · Feb 10, 2014

torchomatic said:
But now you're changing tact from what you said in your original email. From "where did the money go, why only loans" to "will the £1M be given to Pressley?"

And Mark is right. The boycott is certainly admirable but it WILL affect the clubs finances and away days like Arsenal will help pay wages and keep the club going, despite SISU saying they would fund the club. Every little helps and all that. I want permanent signings as much as anyone but I don't want SP to just buy anyone for the sake of it just to keep fans happy.

Quality not quantity is a well-used phrase and it has a lot of mileage.

I know how many signatures the council petition got as you like to mention it every time you open your mouth. I think you need to concentrate on the people of Coventry and Warwickshire - the radio station can help you there - as fans and other message boards will reach the point of saturation.

Maybe give a free gift with every signature.

You're right Torch, the wording in the mailout wasn't my best effort. But the gist of it is I think it's legitimate to ask what will happen with the £1m. The 'deep pockets' and 'funding losses for three years' points have been widely reported so surely the £1m is a bonus that should be spent on the team or else are the claims about pockets and losses wrong? And to try to get this thread back on track, I had a drink in the Canal House on Saturday with someone who goes to sixfields - we disagree on some things but recognise we're both City fans and don't fall out. So I hope people with different views will come along for a pint on the 26th.
PS - Did you know the last petition got 1,086 signatures?

duffer · Feb 10, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Edgy your two posts are spot on, the main thing to take from it all is that CCCouncil, Sisu, McGinnity and most importantly Brian Richardson are all to blame for the reason we are playing in Northampton, all through from the beginning of the idea, through to the land deal with Tesco, the Arena's rent and Sisu not wanting to negotiate with the Council, the council have spunged off the Club no doubt, but it is time that this issue gets sorted out once and for all because the Arena (and I am not it's biggest fan) is a magnificent sporting arena to be sat there with no Club making the most out of it is shameful.

I'm sorry, because I think we're going miles OT here, but once again there's this accusation that the council have sponged off the club (cash cow is usually the favoured phrase here, btw).

How?

What money, precisely, has Coventry City Council made out of the club since the Ricoh was built?

mark82 · Feb 10, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
You're right Torch, the wording in the mailout wasn't my best effort. But the gist of it is I think it's legitimate to ask what will happen with the £1m. The 'deep pockets' and 'funding losses for three years' points have been widely reported so surely the £1m is a bonus that should be spent on the team or else are the claims about pockets and losses wrong? And to try to get this thread back on track, I had a drink in the Canal House on Saturday with someone who goes to sixfields - we disagree on some things but recognise we're both City fans and don't fall out. So I hope people with different views will come along for a pint on the 26th.
PS - Did you know the last petition got 1,086 signatures?

Question - If you were going further and further into debt each month and then got a bonus from work, would you blow it on buying something new or clearing some of said debt?

Look at it this way, it's £1 million less we will owe them when they eventually fuck off.

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

mark82 said:
Question - If you were going further and further into debt each month and then got a bonus from work, would you blow it on buying something new or clearing some of said debt?

Look at it this way, it's £1 million less we will owe them when they eventually fuck off.

short term yes. I thought we were supposed to be looking at the long term?

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

Whether you want to sit on your pedastal claiming it is anti-sisu or not, the reality still stands that this money will MOST PROBABLY be used to fund losses at sixfields when it COULD EASILLY fund our matchday costs at the Ricoh or squad improvements.

Nick · Feb 10, 2014

mark82 said:
Question - If you were going further and further into debt each month and then got a bonus from work, would you blow it on buying something new or clearing some of said debt?

Exactly.

I can't see how people can refuse to give them money (which I am not saying is right or wrong) but then moan when they use any money they do get to plug the gaps.

It is a shame that when we get so many against Crewe and so many going to Arsenal that the petition is so low but hopefully it will keep going and nobody should be congratulating and back patting until it gets to 100,000.

mark82 · Feb 10, 2014

I actually think Sisu did ok over the window. The only person we lost was Clarke who engineered himself a move. Let's remember there was speculation around plenty of others.

Clarke was replaced by 2 strikers on loan which SP thought were the best he could get. Not the clubs fault one of them cleared off after 1 day.

mark82 · Feb 10, 2014

lewys33 said:
Whether you want to sit on your pedastal claiming it is anti-sisu or not, the reality still stands that this money will MOST PROBABLY be used to fund losses at sixfields when it COULD EASILLY fund our matchday costs at the Ricoh or squad improvements.

Yes, but we aren't at the Ricoh are we.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 10, 2014

duffer said:
I'm sorry, because I think we're going miles OT here, but once again there's this accusation that the council have sponged off the club (cash cow is usually the favoured phrase here, btw).

How?

What money, precisely, has Coventry City Council made out of the club since the Ricoh was built?

The money in rent, the matchday rvenues that should be the Clubs, without the Club there is no matchday revenues.

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

mark82 said:
Yes, but we aren't at the Ricoh are we.

Nice observation. My point was - We could be!

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
The money in rent, the matchday rvenues that should be the Clubs, without the Club there is no matchday revenues.

Revenues were sold by the old regime. CCC bailed the club out seveal times, and now get blamed for charging this that and the other when the club sold it for a quick buck.

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

Nick said:
Exactly.

I can't see how people can refuse to give them money (which I am not saying is right or wrong) but then moan when they use any money they do get to plug the gaps.

It is a shame that when we get so many against Crewe and so many going to Arsenal that the petition is so low but hopefully it will keep going and nobody should be congratulating and back patting until it gets to 100,000.

So its the fans fault that the gaps need plugging? My mistake!

Ashdown1 · Feb 10, 2014

mark82 said:
I actually think Sisu did ok over the window. The only person we lost was Clarke who engineered himself a move. Let's remember there was speculation around plenty of others.

Clarke was replaced by 2 strikers on loan which SP thought were the best he could get. Not the clubs fault one of them cleared off after 1 day.

and Delfouneso looked like a bloke who has an appalling scoring record !! Not impressed on Saturday !

Nick · Feb 10, 2014

lewys33 said:
So its the fans fault that the gaps need plugging? My mistake!

Where did I say it was the fans fault? You must be mistaken as I didn't say it.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 10, 2014

lewys33 said:
Revenues were sold by the old regime. CCC bailed the club out seveal times, and now get blamed for charging this that and the other when the club sold it for a quick buck.

Also the land deal with Tesco, seems like the club was expecting something and got nothing.

Ashdown1 · Feb 10, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
The money in rent, the matchday rvenues that should be the Clubs, without the Club there is no matchday revenues.

Well meaning that you are, you are not living in the real commercial world ! If I gambled my house away, I'd have to rent somewhere to live and pay the appropriate costs but it wouldn't be my landlords fault and I couldn't accuse him of taking advantage !

Houdi · Feb 10, 2014

edgy said:
I have to say, I am dissappointed with the latest email/release from KCIC.

The last few have been neutral, looking to place accountability on all parties tables. This approach certainly gathered more support for the campaign and petition. The latest one has reverted back to a distinctly SISU OUT type and will inevitably put some folk off. It's a shame.

So maybe a few malcontents on GMK won't sign, but you will never please everyone. Whilst everyone is entitled to their viewpoint, it beyond any reasonable doubt that the vast majority of fans do mainly blame SISU for this current shambles. Their is no 50/50 split on this, the clear majority do hold SISU to blame. The arguments have been done to death, and I expect everybody has by now made up their mind, a vociferous minority will not change the minds of the overwhelming majority of fans. The tail should not wag the dog. The only reason their is no real anti ACL/Council protests is their is simply very little support for it, and no amount of continuing pleading will change that fact.

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

Nick said:
Where did I say it was the fans fault? You must be mistaken as I didn't say it.

What is the hidden meaning here then nick?

Nick said:
I can't see how people can refuse to give them money (which I am not saying is right or wrong) but then moan when they use any money they do get to plug the gaps.

Nick · Feb 10, 2014

Houdi said:
So maybe a few malcontents on GMK won't sign, but you will never please everyone. Whilst everyone is entitled to their viewpoint, it beyond any reasonable doubt that the vast majority of fans do mainly blame SISU for this current shambles. Their is no 50/50 split on this, the clear majority do hold SISU to blame. The arguments have been done to death, and I expect everybody has by now made up their mind, a vociferous minority will not change the minds of the overwhelming majority of fans. The tail should not wag the dog. The only reason their is no real anti ACL/Council protests is their is simply very little support for it, and no amount of continuing pleading will change that fact.

So maybe if it was more neutral more people would sign?

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Also the land deal with Tesco, seems like the club was expecting something and got nothing.

They got half the Stadium Management Company. Which they then sold to make a quick buck.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 10, 2014

Ashdown1 said:
Well meaning that you are, you are not living in the real commercial world ! If I gambled my house away, I'd have to rent somewhere to live and pay the appropriate costs but it wouldn't be my landlords fault and I couldn't accuse him of taking advantage !

I live in a world where the Grass, Cars, Building's and people are Sky Blue leave me be

lewys33 · Feb 10, 2014

Nick said:
So maybe if it was more neutral more people would sign?

How is it not neutral? If it isn't neutral why has TF and ML signed it?

Some are just too scared to lose face.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 10, 2014

lewys33 said:
They got half the Stadium Management Company. Which they then sold to make a quick buck.

That wasn't the original deal was it?

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