Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)

shmmeee · Mar 7, 2024

clint van damme said:
When was the last one elected after 14 years of fairly brutal austerity and punching yourself in the knackers by leaving a massive trading bloc?

That’s the take of a politics geek. Top of voters mind is the economy, the NHS, and immigration, in that order. People who give a shit about Brexit is at an all time low, outside of the NHS weirdly so is concern about transport, education, and other public services.

I know I sound like a stuck record, but that’s because so do you: election time is about the median voter and specifically undecideds, not showing off your credentials to the base. I said after Corbyn Labour would need to tack right twice as hard to undo voter opinions on the party, but even if they hadn’t this is just the price you pay to get elected. Like Boris promised hospitals and police or Cameron hugged a hoodie or Blair promised to be tough on crime or Thatcher played up her working class sensible person stuff. This is just electoral politics.

shmmeee · Mar 7, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
It is not 1997

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Correct

clint van damme · Mar 7, 2024

shmmeee said:
That’s the take of a politics geek. Top of voters mind is the economy, the NHS, and immigration, in that order. People who give a shit about Brexit is at an all time low, outside of the NHS weirdly so is concern about transport, education, and other public services.

I know I sound like a stuck record, but that’s because so do you: election time is about the median voter and specifically undecideds, not showing off your credentials to the base. I said after Corbyn Labour would need to tack right twice as hard to undo voter opinions on the party, but even if they hadn’t this is just the price you pay to get elected. Like Boris promised hospitals and police or Cameron hugged a hoodie or Blair promised to be tough on crime or Thatcher played up her working class sensible person stuff. This is just electoral politics.

While not disagreeing with the overall premise of your post I think we are in unprecedented times and if Starmer doesn't get it right we might see a move towards something very unpalatable as Duffer hinted at in an earlier post.

fernandopartridge · Mar 7, 2024

Come on @shmmeee this goes way beyond 'sound money' for the purpose of winning an election. These lines are identical to the utter drivel George Osborne and mates were saying 14 tears ago. This is embarrassing.

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shmmeee · Mar 7, 2024

clint van damme said:
While not disagreeing with the overall premise of your post I think we are in unprecedented times and if Starmer doesn't get it right we might see a move towards something very unpalatable as Duffer hinted at in an earlier post.

Sure. But you can’t judge that now. For better or worse he’s going for a safety first strategy of not falling into any traps set by the Tories and knowing people only have one realistic choice.

Tory politics is (or was until it went mental) razor focused on salient issues with voters. They don’t want lower immigration, they want cheap labour. They don’t care about trans toilets or woke AI or whatever, but they know enough people do to gain their votes. The real policies of huge tax cuts for the rich and syphoning public assets to their mates aren’t in the manifesto cos no fucker would vote for them. And the used to be smart enough to spot when the tide is against them on a topic and soften their position or take on the language entirely. See their willingness to green it rainbow wash at any particular point. The strength of the Tories is their complete lack of principles.

Labour are more accountable, more transparent, and also don’t have the media infrastructure the right do. So when they talk to voters there’s a bunch of people who feel Labour should be theirs that are loudly unhappy and a media complex gleeful to amplify them. Tory backers just care that they win. Hedge fund managers aren’t campaigning on Twitter. It makes this game a lot harder for Labour to pull off, part of the reason they rarely do.

At the end of the day the next battle is to grind the Tories into dust. They are structurally the party of the elite ruling class with a deep disdain for the average man. They represent power structures in this country that seriously hold back its potential and the potential of its people. Its destruction is priority one. Even if RefUK or whoever pop up, they’re in many ways much easier to deal with.

Once Labour are in, then it’s campaigning against a sympathetic government and hoping we can move the needle. But right now you just play into what the Tories want with no chance of impact. People genuinely talking about replacing Starmer. When one of your biggest sticks to beat the Tories with is constant leader change.

Edit: none of this means left wingers should sit on their hands, there’s the constant work of refining a platform the public will vote (2017 is a good start), finding and promoting good candidates, and making sure that next leadership campaign the structures are there both internally and externally to get that platform across to the selectorate and electorate. And of course lobby the government. Once you’ve got them elected.

JAM See · Mar 7, 2024

shmmeee said:
Sure. But you can’t judge that now. For better or worse he’s going for a safety first strategy of not falling into any traps set by the Tories and knowing people only have one realistic choice.

Tory politics is (or was until it went mental) razor focused on salient issues with voters. They don’t want lower immigration, they want cheap labour. They don’t care about trans toilets or woke AI or whatever, but they know enough people do to gain their votes. The real policies of huge tax cuts for the rich and syphoning public assets to their mates aren’t in the manifesto cos no fucker would vote for them. And the used to be smart enough to spot when the tide is against them on a topic and soften their position or take on the language entirely. See their willingness to green it rainbow wash at any particular point. The strength of the Tories is their complete lack of principles.

Labour are more accountable, more transparent, and also don’t have the media infrastructure the right do. So when they talk to voters there’s a bunch of people who feel Labour should be theirs that are loudly unhappy and a media complex gleeful to amplify them. Tory backers just care that they win. Hedge fund managers aren’t campaigning on Twitter. It makes this game a lot harder for Labour to pull off, part of the reason they rarely do.

At the end of the day the next battle is to grind the Tories into dust. They are structurally the party of the elite ruling class with a deep disdain for the average man. They represent power structures in this country that seriously hold back its potential and the potential of its people. Its destruction is priority one. Even if RefUK or whoever pop up, they’re in many ways much easier to deal with.

Once Labour are in, then it’s campaigning against a sympathetic government and hoping we can move the needle. But right now you just play into what the Tories want with no chance of impact. People genuinely talking about replacing Starmer. When one of your biggest sticks to beat the Tories with is constant leader change.

Edit: none of this means left wingers should sit on their hands, there’s the constant work of refining a platform the public will vote (2017 is a good start), finding and promoting good candidates, and making sure that next leadership campaign the structures are there both internally and externally to get that platform across to the selectorate and electorate. And of course lobby the government. Once you’ve got them elected.

TL/DR ?

Tories are devious, lying, self-serving cunts. Get shot of them. The alternative CANNOT be worse.

Mild-Mannered Janitor · Mar 7, 2024

Sadly, it always feels like people get to the polls and ask themselves, who am I going to be better off with when voting or who do I trust to run the country better (default - make me better off) and they believe the Tory lies and that Labour havent articulated or shared what they would do if elected.

its a sad indictment but the “I’m afraid there is no money note” is long lasting in peoples minds, genuinely they couldn’t be worse than what is in place now and what has governed us these last few years But it will be something they have to demonstrate to win over voters

JAM See · Mar 7, 2024

Mild-Mannered Janitor said:
Sadly, it always feels like people get to the polls and ask themselves, who am I going to be better off with when voting or who do I trust to run the country better (default - make me better off) and they believe the Tory lies and that Labour havent articulated or shared what they would do if elected.

its a sad indictment but the “I’m afraid there is no money note” is long lasting in peoples minds, genuinely they couldn’t be worse than what is in place now and what has governed us these last few years But it will be something they have to demonstrate to win over voters

It's fucking annoying.
Liam Byrne got castigated for a joke.
Reginald Maudling is completely forgotten.
How times have changed.

wingy · Mar 7, 2024

JAM See said:
It's fucking annoying.
Liam Byrne got castigated for a joke.
Reginald Maudling is completely forgotten.
How times have changed.

Just remember the clusterfuck direction they've took us and are continuing to do,all the instability, hold your Nose and don't let em loose again!

wingy · Mar 8, 2024

They been loading us with too information governing by sound bite, putting fear on the population destroying everyone who has a tendency for it's mental health,even worse for the millennials.Too much information, global warming, threats from everywhere, wondering how to keep a roof over heads, starvation diets,supply chains fucked just visit the supermarkets, absolute shysters!
That give away during covid £70B is now safely transferred among the elites, growing there asset portfolios, how's yours doing?

duffer · Mar 8, 2024

shmmeee said:
Sure. But you can’t judge that now. For better or worse he’s going for a safety first strategy of not falling into any traps set by the Tories and knowing people only have one realistic choice.

Tory politics is (or was until it went mental) razor focused on salient issues with voters. They don’t want lower immigration, they want cheap labour. They don’t care about trans toilets or woke AI or whatever, but they know enough people do to gain their votes. The real policies of huge tax cuts for the rich and syphoning public assets to their mates aren’t in the manifesto cos no fucker would vote for them. And the used to be smart enough to spot when the tide is against them on a topic and soften their position or take on the language entirely. See their willingness to green it rainbow wash at any particular point. The strength of the Tories is their complete lack of principles.

Labour are more accountable, more transparent, and also don’t have the media infrastructure the right do. So when they talk to voters there’s a bunch of people who feel Labour should be theirs that are loudly unhappy and a media complex gleeful to amplify them. Tory backers just care that they win. Hedge fund managers aren’t campaigning on Twitter. It makes this game a lot harder for Labour to pull off, part of the reason they rarely do.

At the end of the day the next battle is to grind the Tories into dust. They are structurally the party of the elite ruling class with a deep disdain for the average man. They represent power structures in this country that seriously hold back its potential and the potential of its people. Its destruction is priority one. Even if RefUK or whoever pop up, they’re in many ways much easier to deal with.

Once Labour are in, then it’s campaigning against a sympathetic government and hoping we can move the needle. But right now you just play into what the Tories want with no chance of impact. People genuinely talking about replacing Starmer. When one of your biggest sticks to beat the Tories with is constant leader change.

Edit: none of this means left wingers should sit on their hands, there’s the constant work of refining a platform the public will vote (2017 is a good start), finding and promoting good candidates, and making sure that next leadership campaign the structures are there both internally and externally to get that platform across to the selectorate and electorate. And of course lobby the government. Once you’ve got them elected.

Not sure I agree with you entirely on this mate, as I'm sure you're aware, but that is a well argued case.

I think my primary concern is what you see now with Starmer and Reeves, is what you get later. I don't sense any accommodation with even centre-left policies under those two.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and you're right, and you can spend the next five years rubbing my nose in it.

shmmeee · Mar 8, 2024

This right here is the problem with privatisation of public services in a microcosm.

Hinchingbrooke head to leave over 'top-slicing' concerns with ACES Trust

He claims the trust has taken "around three quarters of a million pounds each year" from the budget.

www.bbc.com

Has anyone ever explained how adding in someone who takes a profit is meant to lead to more resource going to services?

fernandopartridge · Mar 8, 2024

shmmeee said:
This right here is the problem with privatisation of public services in a microcosm.

Hinchingbrooke head to leave over 'top-slicing' concerns with ACES Trust

He claims the trust has taken "around three quarters of a million pounds each year" from the budget.

www.bbc.com

Has anyone ever explained how adding in someone who takes a profit is meant to lead to more resource going to services?

Yeah, as with a lot of privatisation the benefits of a 'market' will never be delivered as there is no market - it is not a consumer service with unfettered choice of provider in reality, further the fragmentation of the public sector provision makes that more expensive itself. We're left with this, top slicing the funding. It is a disgrace.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 8, 2024

shmmeee said:
This right here is the problem with privatisation of public services in a microcosm.

Hinchingbrooke head to leave over 'top-slicing' concerns with ACES Trust

He claims the trust has taken "around three quarters of a million pounds each year" from the budget.

www.bbc.com

Has anyone ever explained how adding in someone who takes a profit is meant to lead to more resource going to services?

The argument goes
Brings in more funding - mmm
Over and above the salary
Identifies efficiencies - mmmmmm
Over and above the salary

shmmeee · Mar 8, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
The argument goes
Brings in more funding - mmm
Over and above the salary
Identifies efficiencies - mmmmmm
Over and above the salary

Funding from where? What efficiencies are you expecting in a system ran on good will and staff topping up from their own pockets? Just ideological nonsense.

wingy · Mar 8, 2024

Can't wait for the takeover from the east at least we'll get something built then!

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 8, 2024

shmmeee said:
Funding from where? What efficiencies are you expecting in a system ran on good will and staff topping up from their own pockets? Just ideological nonsense.

I agree

wingy · Mar 8, 2024

duffer said:
In fairness, they're intensely libertarian when it comes to them and their rich donors.

It's just the rest of us that they like to keep in order.

And landlords, don't forget them despicable buggers feeding off the other side of society, get out the way and let people own them instead paying your mortgage!All stacked in their favour with this help, that tax benifit guaranteed, some right shady buggers getting in there accessing dodgy money,stick your HMO's and flat conversions up yer arse!

wingy · Mar 8, 2024

wingy said:
Can't wait for the takeover from the east at least we'll get something built then!

How many would it take in one go Shmmeee to normalise price's?

fernandopartridge · Mar 8, 2024

wingy said:
And landlords, don't forget them despicable buggers feeding off the other side of society, get out the way and let people own them instead paying your mortgage!All stacked in their favour with this help, that tax benifit guaranteed, some right shady buggers getting in there accessing dodgy money,stick your HMO's and flat conversions up yer arse!

Absolutely right, many problems relate back to landlordism, I'm not sure whether that's a function of not properly regulating property values or vice versa.

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shmmeee · Mar 8, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
Absolutely right, many problems relate back to landlordism, I'm not sure whether that's a function of not properly regulating property values or vice versa.

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Flood the market with quality affordable housing and watch all the Apprentice wannabes cry off.

wingy · Mar 9, 2024

shmmeee said:
Flood the market with quality affordable housing and watch all the Apprentice wannabes cry off.

Get the land, build your own flat pack style from IKEA,use that building in town for it's intended purpose, that's Coventry sorted!

wingy · Mar 9, 2024

Currency seems high ATM ,after keeping inflation in house?

wingy · Mar 9, 2024

Property model £40k-£50k raw finish.£20k-£30kbuilderscrew ,land LA's or Branson type overlord,+service's £60k , to £80k ,finishes self, profit for everyone involved,get the chinese over here if unable to achieve this!

Como · Mar 10, 2024

Something I am looking at, maybe off grid, anyway here there are lots of different plan companies, this is the one I like Truoba House Plans

You can take one of their basic plans and modify it, reverse it, choose the finishes etc, For example I would want 2" of Rigid foam board exterior with a 2x6 framing and there are metal roof panels you can clip PV Panels to. That should give you a pretty tight shell.

Lots of framers so hence the 2x6 framing, Building Control will understand it etc etc. Some friends built their own house, they took over 5 years as parcels of land became available adjoining them, kept on eating into the Construction budget.

As well as selling plans they will give you a construction estimate, I assume it is weighted for region.

wingy · Mar 11, 2024

Ok

Como said:
Something I am looking at, maybe off grid, anyway here there are lots of different plan companies, this is the one I like Truoba House Plans

You can take one of their basic plans and modify it, reverse it, choose the finishes etc, For example I would want 2" of Rigid foam board exterior with a 2x6 framing and there are metal roof panels you can clip PV Panels to. That should give you a pretty tight shell.

Lots of framers so hence the 2x6 framing, Building Control will understand it etc etc. Some friends built their own house, they took over 5 years as parcels of land became available adjoining them, kept on eating into the Construction budget.

As well as selling plans they will give you a construction estimate, I assume it is weighted for region.

shmmeee said:
Sure. But you can’t judge that now. For better or worse he’s going for a safety first strategy of not falling into any traps set by the Tories and knowing people only have one realistic choice.

Tory politics is (or was until it went mental) razor focused on salient issues with voters. They don’t want lower immigration, they want cheap labour. They don’t care about trans toilets or woke AI or whatever, but they know enough people do to gain their votes. The real policies of huge tax cuts for the rich and syphoning public assets to their mates aren’t in the manifesto cos no fucker would vote for them. And the used to be smart enough to spot when the tide is against them on a topic and soften their position or take on the language entirely. See their willingness to green it rainbow wash at any particular point. The strength of the Tories is their complete lack of principles.

Labour are more accountable, more transparent, and also don’t have the media infrastructure the right do. So when they talk to voters there’s a bunch of people who feel Labour should be theirs that are loudly unhappy and a media complex gleeful to amplify them. Tory backers just care that they win. Hedge fund managers aren’t campaigning on Twitter. It makes this game a lot harder for Labour to pull off, part of the reason they rarely do.

At the end of the day the next battle is to grind the Tories into dust. They are structurally the party of the elite ruling class with a deep disdain for the average man. They represent power structures in this country that seriously hold back its potential and the potential of its people. Its destruction is priority one. Even if RefUK or whoever pop up, they’re in many ways much easier to deal with.

Once Labour are in, then it’s campaigning against a sympathetic government and hoping we can move the needle. But right now you just play into what the Tories want with no chance of impact. People genuinely talking about replacing Starmer. When one of your biggest sticks to beat the Tories with is constant leader change.

Edit: none of this means left wingers should sit on their hands, there’s the constant work of refining a platform the public will vote (2017 is a good start), finding and promoting good candidates, and making sure that next leadership campaign the structures are there both internally and externally to get that platform across to the selectorate and electorate. And of course lobby the government. Once you’ve got them elected.

He's gonna get stitched by hook or crook, to believe otherwise is to be blind,on the streets now!

wingy · Mar 11, 2024

Como said:
Something I am looking at, maybe off grid, anyway here there are lots of different plan companies, this is the one I like Truoba House Plans

You can take one of their basic plans and modify it, reverse it, choose the finishes etc, For example I would want 2" of Rigid foam board exterior with a 2x6 framing and there are metal roof panels you can clip PV Panels to. That should give you a pretty tight shell.

Lots of framers so hence the 2x6 framing, Building Control will understand it etc etc. Some friends built their own house, they took over 5 years as parcels of land became available adjoining them, kept on eating into the Construction budget.

As well as selling plans they will give you a construction estimate, I assume it is weighted for region.

Laser cutting for repetitive cutting,simple style say 20. Designs,flat packed,on the trailer,6 people knock out in shop,six for site,scaled up for quantity, All in a month roof on ,loads of companies are capable of this!

wingy · Mar 11, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
Makes sense. I think it adds about 2 weeks on sailings from Asia to Europe by circumnavigating Africa instead of going through the Red Sea and Suez Canal. That’s going to affect the cost of shipping so oil and electronic goods will be hit hardest with the consumer ultimately paying the cost as the last link in the chain.

What do reckon,an alternative route through Gaza now the Yank's will be building a port in Gaza, just need a canal to go with it?

clint van damme · Mar 11, 2024

wingy said:
What do reckon,an alternative route through Gaza now the Yank's will be building a port in Gaza, just need a canal to go with it?

They're not building that port to let aid in, it's a smokescreen.

Grendel · Mar 11, 2024

Reform have an MP I assume

clint van damme · Mar 11, 2024

Grendel said:
Reform have an MP I assume

He's had more parties than Hugh Heffner

shmmeee · Mar 11, 2024

clint van damme said:
They're not building that port to let aid in, it's a smokescreen.

A smokescreen for what?

clint van damme · Mar 11, 2024

shmmeee said:
A smokescreen for what?

It will be used to export Palestines gas.

SBT · Mar 11, 2024

clint van damme said:
It will be used to export Palestines gas.

Seems like an awful lot of effort for not a lot of gas

clint van damme · Mar 11, 2024

SBT said:
Seems like an awful lot of effort for not a lot of gas

Well they've already issued licences for the Gaza marine while spending the last few decades fucking over the agreement the PLO had with British gas.
Not sure it is all about the amount of gas anyway, though 1T cubic isn't insignificant, admittedly its not massive

Otherwise you can believe the official narrative that America wants to get aid in to people who are being bombed by a country using weapons bought with American money but said country is blocking the aid.
I'm not clever but I think there's another, glaringly obvious solution in there if you really want to help the residents of Gaza.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)

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