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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (24 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,341
Are we at the point that were dominated disadvantaged by cultural values IE lawyers, medicine, I mean I never had a plan apart from a brief flirtation with Poly but my daughter did far better and got all the qualifications and maybe I should have insisted when 12- or 13-14 to stick to those voluntary evening in law practice,wheras now i sense that first pangs of why?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,342
shmmeee said:
OK guys I didn’t look into the Twitter rando
Click to expand...

Was just a (bad taste) joke.
I'm sure he's an upstanding fella.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,343
shmmeee said:
Oh good. Another international comparison to worry about that I hadn’t even thought of

View attachment 32654
Click to expand...

Saw it earlier, what's the opposite of the gift that keeps on giving? That's this country for the vast majority at the minute
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,344
shmmeee said:
Oh, look what’s at the top of my Twitter feed…

Click to expand...
Why do only knobheads use the word crank?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,345
shmmeee said:
Then who? Because you can only work with what you’ve got. Are you not frustrated by the low quality of left wing MPs?
Click to expand...
Yes I am

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,346
shmmeee said:
Then who? Because you can only work with what you’ve got. Are you not frustrated by the low quality of left wing MPs?
Click to expand...
Where is the platform to come through though? The trade union movement maybe but they are actually getting stuff done for the people that they represent in that medium.
Why bother moving to politics where they will have less impact and be undermined by so-called left leaning colleagues.
Also manu left wing MP’s do a lot locally for their constituents, but often this is not seen at a bigger level.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,347
Ian1779 said:
Where is the platform to come through though? The trade union movement maybe but they are actually getting stuff done for the people that they represent in that medium.
Why bother moving to politics where they will have less impact and be undermined by so-called left leaning colleagues.
Also manu left wing MP’s do a lot locally for their constituents, but often this is not seen at a bigger level.
Click to expand...
There's just been a selection in one of the London boroughs swung by eight online votes just happened to be the son of that civil servant what's her name?
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,348
wingy said:
There's just been a selection in one of the London boroughs swung by eight online votes just happened to be the son of that civil servant what's her name?
Click to expand...
Sue Gray?
 
Reactions: wingy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,349
shmmeee said:
We need both. Productivity is in the toilet because all our infrastructure is shite whether it’s human or not.

I honestly think a lot of it is down to the weird class system in this country that values law and finance and PPE and not Maths and Physics and Engineering.
Click to expand...
Case in point the peak salary in my own physical science being £50-55k
 
Reactions: shmmeee
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,350
shmmeee said:
Oh good. Another international comparison to worry about that I hadn’t even thought of

View attachment 32654
Click to expand...
Yeah but what's the head circumference?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,351
CCFCSteve said:
As I’ve suggested, the government can directly influence wages in say social care which would require increased Council funding. It could also focus on certain key sectors to better subsidise/incentivise further education which would require central government investment. There’s no ‘plan’ though. Just short term reactive policy
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Never will be because it'll always be the'next lot' who get the benefits and therefore credit.

Democracy as we do it doesn't encourage long term thinking!
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,352
Ian1779 said:
Where is the platform to come through though? The trade union movement maybe but they are actually getting stuff done for the people that they represent in that medium.
Why bother moving to politics where they will have less impact and be undermined by so-called left leaning colleagues.
Also manu left wing MP’s do a lot locally for their constituents, but often this is not seen at a bigger level.
Click to expand...

There’s no pipeline. Look at how Corbyn was selected “oh I guess it’s my turn”. Too many on the left see politics as a dirty word. Look at AOC for how you can be very left and also have an eye on political reality.

Step one for me is as a whole the left needs to stop the purity spirals and accept that you’ve got to face the voters.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,353
It's also worth noting Corbyn has always been a very hard working local MP. There are a few about - Jim Pawsey was in Rugby too.

You need a bigger picture if you're going to be leader, though.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,354
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's also worth noting Corbyn has always been a very hard working local MP. There are a few about - Jim Pawsey was in Rugby too.

You need a bigger picture if you're going to be leader, though.
Click to expand...

They’re basically two different jobs. And should probably actually be such. There’s no way the PMs constituents get a fair deal.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,355
shmmeee said:
They’re basically two different jobs. And should probably actually be such. There’s no way the PMs constituents get a fair deal.
Click to expand...
Now as it happens, my in-laws are his constituents(!) Alas, I fear they probably voted for him too...

While I sort of see the general point, I wonder how much influence being PM has on avoiding controversial decisions being railroaded through your constituency etc? It's the speaker's constituency that *really* misses out!
 
Reactions: shmmeee
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2023
  • #32,356
Deleted member 5849 said:
Now as it happens, my in-laws are his constituents(!) Alas, I fear they probably voted for him too...

While I sort of see the general point, I wonder how much influence being PM has on avoiding controversial decisions being railroaded through your constituency etc? It's the speaker's constituency that *really* misses out!
Click to expand...
On the contrary I think having such a big wet lettuce around must have some health benefits.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,357
This is why crossing your fingers for some trickle down from "growth" just doesn't cut it

UNICEF Innocenti

For every child, answers
www.unicef.org

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,358
fernandopartridge said:
This is why crossing your fingers for some trickle down from "growth" just doesn't cut it

UNICEF Innocenti

For every child, answers
www.unicef.org

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Although on a global scale nothing has reduced poverty more than global capitalism
 
Reactions: nicksar

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,359
fernandopartridge said:
This is why crossing your fingers for some trickle down from "growth" just doesn't cut it

UNICEF Innocenti

For every child, answers
www.unicef.org

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Trickle down and growth are not the same thing. We desperately need growth because of our anaemic wages. That’s trickle up.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,360
Sky Blue Pete said:
Although on a global scale nothing has reduced poverty more than global capitalism
Click to expand...

Capitalism or technological progress?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,361
shmmeee said:
Trickle down and growth are not the same thing. We desperately need growth because of our anaemic wages. That’s trickle up.
Click to expand...
Where does the growth come from? Relaxing planning law? What else?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,362
fernandopartridge said:
Where does the growth come from? Relaxing planning law? What else?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Increased worker productivity through training and equipment/automation mostly. And also better infrastructure.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,363
Sky Blue Pete said:
Although on a global scale nothing has reduced poverty more than global capitalism
Click to expand...
How can that be when children are going round on rubbish tips, digging for harmful resources etc?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,364
shmmeee said:
Capitalism or technological progress?
Click to expand...
Good question
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,365
shmmeee said:
Capitalism or technological progress?
Click to expand...
The impact of capitalism on poverty maybe isn’t what you assume | World Economic Forum

It was a starter question for a debate really sorry should have ended with ??
 
Reactions: wingy and nicksar

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,366
Sky Blue Pete said:
The impact of capitalism on poverty maybe isn’t what you assume | World Economic Forum

It was a starter question for a debate really sorry should have ended with ??
Click to expand...

Really interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,367
Johnson basically admitting he was too lazy and incompetent to deal with the spread of Covid outbreak, particular in the early days.

What an awful, awful man he is. He has the blood of thousands on his hands. And yet will face no consequences. Good old Boris, boys will be boys, nevermind.

The worst possible leader at the worst possible time. Thanks Brexit.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,368
Bad news if you’re not in the top 30% of earners and want to marry a foreigner

 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,369
SBT said:
Bad news if you’re not in the top 30% of earners and want to marry a foreigner

Click to expand...

Amazing. By cracking down on immigrants we’ve managed to make them more privileged than British citizens. This government is so spectacularly bad it’s quite impressive.
 
Reactions: wingy and Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,370
SBT said:
Bad news if you’re not in the top 30% of earners and want to marry a foreigner

Click to expand...

Or if you're the health secretary who promised the biggest ever NHS recruitment drive.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,371
So the Rwanda plan looks more and more like a pointless red meat for the frothers gimmick the more the details come out. What we’ve learned today against a backdrop of a backlog of over 100K claims for asylum is that there’s capacity for 100 claimants in total in Rwanda and we’re bringing vulnerable asylum seekers already in Rwanda (presumably from other parts of Africa) to the UK under the terms of the latest agreement which Sunak refused to put a number on at PMQ’s. If the failed asylum seekers we send there commit a crime while in Rwanda, Rwanda are sending them back to the UK immediately where we’ll have to deal with them again. Chris Phipps suggesting on the TV rounds this morning we’ll then attempt to send them back to their own country which begs the question why didn’t we try that in the first place. Presumably the answer is we can’t.

Also worth pointing out that we’ve spanked £140 million on this to date. Imagine if we’d just put that money into dealing with the backlog helping empty hotels and filling the labour shortage with the successful claimants. The lengths this government will go to for the amusement of gammons.
 
Reactions: wingy
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,372
shmmeee said:
Capitalism or technological progress?
Click to expand...

Do we really think a lot of technological progress happens without capitalism though ?! Hmmm, doubt it
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,373
SBT said:
Bad news if you’re not in the top 30% of earners and want to marry a foreigner

Click to expand...

Shambles….unsurprisingly looks like ill thought out, rushed, reactionary policy that might well do more harm than good.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,374
CCFCSteve said:
Do we really think a lot of technological progress happens without capitalism though ?! Hmmm, doubt it
Click to expand...

I do. Scientific progress has happened under all kinds of economic systems, even communism. Unless we think the wheel was VC backed.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 6, 2023
  • #32,375
shmmeee said:
I do. Scientific progress has happened under all kinds of economic systems, even communism. Unless we think the wheel was VC backed.
Click to expand...

Im not saying it wouldn’t happen at all but no chance at the same pace/level. Happy to be proved wrong with any examples of the fast growing, innovative communist countries…genuine question.

Even China which is ahead of a lot of western countries on tech nicked most of its intellectual property from the states and some from here/Europe (only now has the West woken up to it). Its basically embraced capitalism in a way which suits its government

Ps problem we’ve had in the West in recent times is unfettered/uncontrolled capitalism which is only increasingly working for the few. Push back is coming
 
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