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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,241
It's not even worth trying to get into it, and you show exactly why the remain campaign was and remains so unsuccessful. Such a shallow understanding of the real motivations behind brexit. Bendy bananas etc is just fabricated media birthday nonsense to be consumed by idiots.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: PVA, skybluetony176 and Grendel
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,242
fernandopartridge said:
fabricated media birthday nonsense to be consumed by idiots.
Click to expand...

Incredible
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,243
fernandopartridge said:
It's not even worth trying to get into it, and you show exactly why the remain campaign was and remains so unsuccessful. Such a shallow understanding of the real motivations behind brexit. Bendy bananas etc is just fabricated media birthday nonsense to be consumed by idiots.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Which are what, in your opinion?
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,244
I bought my diesel because the Government encouraged it - did 660 miles on one tank , electric cars are a disaster for long journeys - it will decrease in value as we go on but tbh I don’t care if it didn’t cost me much to run
 
Last edited: Jul 22, 2023
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,245
Mcbean said:
I bought my diesel because the Government encouraged it - did 660 miles on one tank , electric cars are a disaster for long journeys - it will decrease in value as we go on but tbh I don’t care if if died t cost me much to run
Click to expand...
I honestly believe in years to come the current batch of electric cars will be viewed in the same light as diesels now, due to the harmful processes needed to get the materials for the batteries and how short a lifespan they will have due to the amount of mileage a lot of people do as so need recharging so often.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,246
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I honestly believe in years to come the current batch of electric cars will be viewed in the same light as diesels now, due to the harmful processes needed to get the materials for the batteries and how short a lifespan they will have due to the amount of mileage a lot of people do as so need recharging so often.
Click to expand...

Electric cars last about 200k miles...
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,247
JAM See said:
Which are what, in your opinion?
Click to expand...
I haven’t read that book and it may well be in there, but looking at the leave vote distribution I imagine that post-industrial towns in Wales, Midlands and Northern England that were totally abandoned by the government of the day will be part of it.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 21, 2023
  • #30,248
JAM See said:
Which are what, in your opinion?
Click to expand...
In the case of the north of England generally, an ever declining standard of living which was brought about by neoliberalism of which the EU is a big part (but not the only part).

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,249
skybluetony176 said:
1.2M vehicles on the DVLA database are ULEZ exempt because they’re historic vehicles. The percentages of percentages get smaller and smaller the more you look into it.
Click to expand...

Not many people are running historic vehicles as everyday runabouts. Plenty of people of relatively limited means, but who won't hit the in-benefit criteria, are running old bangers that aren't ULEZ compliant. If the numbers were genuinely tiny, then paying them to take them off the road wouldn't be an issue.

Andy Burnham, the mayor of Manchester, is taking a different approach to ULEZ. This looks like a better way to get buy in, to me...

Greater Manchester Clean Air Plan | Clean Air Greater Manchester

Greater Manchester Clean Air Plan
cleanairgm.com
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,250
The issue isn't the actual ULEZ plan though as most people will not be effected by it, it's just the timing of this election allowed it to be weaponised in a borough that hasn't yet had it implemented.

It is actually quite popular in boroughs where it has already been implemented.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,251
skybluetony176 said:
1.2M vehicles on the DVLA database are ULEZ exempt because they’re historic vehicles. The percentages of percentages get smaller and smaller the more you look into it.
Click to expand...

Where have you got that from?

This says over 10 million cars of 15 years and older are still active

Britain’s cars getting older, but van ownership reaches historic highs - SMMT

Total vehicles in use on UK roads falls to 40.35m units – the first drop since 2009. Average age of car rises to 8.4 years old – the oldest on record – with almost 10m vehicles from 2008 and earlier still in service. Vans reach historic highs, up to 4.6m, but declines recorded in truck, bus and...
www.smmt.co.uk
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,252
duffer said:
Not many people are running historic vehicles as everyday runabouts. Plenty of people of relatively limited means, but who won't hit the in-benefit criteria, are running old bangers that aren't ULEZ compliant. If the numbers were genuinely tiny, then paying them to take them off the road wouldn't be an issue.

Andy Burnham, the mayor of Manchester, is taking a different approach to ULEZ. This looks like a better way to get buy in, to me...

Greater Manchester Clean Air Plan | Clean Air Greater Manchester

Greater Manchester Clean Air Plan
cleanairgm.com
Click to expand...
Won't be getting any future classics if they're all scrapped...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,253
anyway regarding London there are 700,000 cars registered to drivers living within the M25 whose vehicles are non ULEZ compliant and 150,000 vans
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,254
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I honestly believe in years to come the current batch of electric cars will be viewed in the same light as diesels now, due to the harmful processes needed to get the materials for the batteries and how short a lifespan they will have due to the amount of mileage a lot of people do as so need recharging so often.
Click to expand...
I find this hard to disagree with. I also suspect that battery powered cars are just a stop gap until hydrogen powered cars become more viable. I also don’t understand why the government also isn’t heavily investing in green hydrogen production right now as that in my mind is very obviously the future.
 
Reactions: duffer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,255
Deleted member 5849 said:
Won't be getting any future classics if they're all scrapped...
Click to expand...
I think that’s almost inevitable simply because of the throw away mentality we now have as consumers. They’ll be survivors but on the fraction of the scale we’ve seen in the past.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,256
David O'Day said:
The issue isn't the actual ULEZ plan though as most people will not be effected by it, it's just the timing of this election allowed it to be weaponised in a borough that hasn't yet had it implemented.

It is actually quite popular in boroughs where it has already been implemented.
Click to expand...
We’re seeing the same with 15 minute cities. The right love jumping on this with huge conspiracy theories about mind control and lost rights. If you see a protest it’s typically bused in protester’s. Where it is happening it tends to be far more popular than unpopular amongst actual local residents and businesses. It’s just right wing snowflakes pretending that they’re a silent majority when in reality they’re a noisy minority.
 
Reactions: chiefdave and Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,257
skybluetony176 said:
We’re seeing the same with 15 minute cities. The right love jumping on this with huge conspiracy theories about mind control and lost rights. If you see a protest it’s typically bused in protester’s. Where it is happening it tends to be far more popular than unpopular amongst actual local residents and businesses. It’s just right wing snowflakes pretending that they’re a silent majority when in reality they’re a noisy minority.
Click to expand...
Yeah once it is implemented in the outer boroughs and most people see it has no effect on them and that it actually improves their lives then the issue will pass.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sky Blue Pete

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,258
David O'Day said:
Yeah once it is implemented in the outer boroughs and most people see it has no effect on them and that it actually improves their lives then the issue will pass.
Click to expand...
Very strange for the Labour leadership to play into the idea that it lost the election then.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,259

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,260
fernandopartridge said:
Very strange for the Labour leadership to play into the idea that it lost the election then.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Most of those happy will be Tory voters anyway - it’s the poorer people who will be disadvantaged
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,261
Grendel said:
Most of those happy will be Tory voters anyway - it’s the poorer people who will be disadvantaged
Click to expand...
Tories and champagne socialists mainly. Same people happy that LTNs are directing the traffic out of their pleasant neighbourhood.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,262
skybluetony176 said:
We’re seeing the same with 15 minute cities. The right love jumping on this with huge conspiracy theories about mind control and lost rights. If you see a protest it’s typically bused in protester’s. Where it is happening it tends to be far more popular than unpopular amongst actual local residents and businesses. It’s just right wing snowflakes pretending that they’re a silent majority when in reality they’re a noisy minority.
Click to expand...
I got interested in the idea of 15 minutes cities a few years ago and I really can't see what is in it that has seen it become a right wing conspiracy.

I mean with tracking chips in covid vaccines you can see its mental but you can at least see there's something they believe in.

What on earth can possibly wrong with having everything you need to live a decent quality of life within 15 minutes of where you live?
 
Reactions: duffer and skybluetony176
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,263
chiefdave said:
I got interested in the idea of 15 minutes cities a few years ago and I really can't see what is in it that has seen it become a right wing conspiracy.

I mean with tracking chips in covid vaccines you can see its mental but you can at least see there's something they believe in.

What on earth can possibly wrong with having everything you need to live a decent quality of life within 15 minutes of where you live?
Click to expand...

I think their theory is that 'they' want us cooped up in these 15 minute cities and we won't be able to venture more than 15 mins from our home.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,264
PVA said:
I think their theory is that 'they' want us cooped up in these 15 minute cities and we won't be able to venture more than 15 mins from our home.
Click to expand...
Most of the people who think that hardly ever leave home
 
Reactions: duffer, skybluetony176 and chiefdave

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,265
skybluetony176 said:
I find this hard to disagree with. I also suspect that battery powered cars are just a stop gap until hydrogen powered cars become more viable. I also don’t understand why the government also isn’t heavily investing in green hydrogen production right now as that in my mind is very obviously the future.
Click to expand...

Spoke to someone fairly prominent in the industry. Expects electric to remain for shorter journeys and hydrogen for longer-haul.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,266
20 points ahead yet terrified of their own shadow.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,267
fernandopartridge said:
20 points ahead yet terrified of their own shadow.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This Starmer impersonator they got on LBC is really good, I mean it can't be the same person as Starmer is against Ulez

 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,268
chiefdave said:
This Starmer impersonator they got on LBC is really good, I mean it can't be the same person as Starmer is against Ulez

Click to expand...

Setting aside the flip-flop in policy, there’s a bit of an issue as I see it with Government support. The example is the grant for buying an EV just gives manufacturers licence to increase the retail price to effectively ‘price in’ that grant. I’d imagine the same situation if they introduced a 10-year amortisation period for EV finance.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,269
SBAndy said:
Setting aside the flip-flop in policy, there’s a bit of an issue as I see it with Government support. The example is the grant for buying an EV just gives manufacturers licence to increase the retail price to effectively ‘price in’ that grant. I’d imagine the same situation if they introduced a 10-year amortisation period for EV finance.
Click to expand...

It’s a ridiculous idea
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,270
chiefdave said:
This Starmer impersonator they got on LBC is really good, I mean it can't be the same person as Starmer is against Ulez

Click to expand...
He has never been against ULEZ's, he rightly thinks the government can do more to help those it hits.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,271
Grendel said:
It’s a ridiculous idea
Click to expand...

In practice, I agree. The sentiment is correct but there needs to be far more controlled measures to help with lowering the cost of EVs, etc. Additional R&D tax advantages to look at ways to lower the cost?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,272
PVA said:
I think their theory is that 'they' want us cooped up in these 15 minute cities and we won't be able to venture more than 15 mins from our home.
Click to expand...
It’s bizarre. It’s almost as if they’ve seen the movie Maze runners and thought it was a documentary.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,273
fernandopartridge said:
Very strange for the Labour leadership to play into the idea that it lost the election then.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
it did lose the election but as we have already discussed it is the weaponised version of it rather than the reality of the ULEZ. The tory campaign was able to paint a picture where everyone was going to have to pay 1000s more a year and that scares people,.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,274
fernandopartridge said:
20 points ahead yet terrified of their own shadow.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The odd thing with that is if the Tories are putting your policies surely the point is it’s because they can’t talk of their own policies or their own record.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 22, 2023
  • #30,275
David O'Day said:
it did lose the election but as we have already discussed it is the weaponised version of it rather than the reality of the ULEZ. The tory campaign was able to paint a picture where everyone was going to have to pay 1000s more a year and that scares people,.
Click to expand...

700,000 vehicles in London are - amazing how thick you think voters are
 
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