Most people don't vote based on reason. We wouldn't have otherwise. Remember all those Turks and Syrians that were coming here unless we voted to leave. Oh and Turkey/Turkiye is still not in the EU. Also don't forget we have had 14 years of Tory Government because Ed Milliband ate a bacon sandwich.Surely the ULEZ is a bit of a red herring anyway. Does a constituency MP have the power to stop it’s implementation?
Surely the ULEZ is a bit of a red herring anyway. Does a constituency MP have the power to stop it’s implementation?
The original congestion zone definitely was a good introduction where there is a full
Service of buses , trains and underground - road pollution was rife
however LTNs and the extension of ULEZ would very much hit service businesses and generally people on lower incomes who can’t afford to replace their older diesel cars
and as above it has been rushed through
khan is a crook !
No
People on the lowest incomes in London are more likely to be pedestrians than car owners. If your concern is social justice, you should support LTNs and ULEZ (like polling shows Londoners do).
I think a lot of this is people applying Coventry/wherever politics to London. London is not a normal British city. It has really low car ownership and a very young and progressive population. Of course it backs these sorts of measures.
It has a young left wing crowd that moved from elsewhere in the country for sure but there's still shit loads of people with cars and it's affecting the poorest that can't afford new ones. LTNs are also a joke as they largely direct traffic away from the desirable roads and completely clog up and pollute the lower income roads.No
People on the lowest incomes in London are more likely to be pedestrians than car owners. If your concern is social justice, you should support LTNs and ULEZ (like polling shows Londoners do).
I think a lot of this is people applying Coventry/wherever politics to London. London is not a normal British city. It has really low car ownership and a very young and progressive population. Of course it backs these sorts of measures.
It has a young left wing crowd that moved from elsewhere in the country for sure but there's still shit loads of people with cars and it's affecting the poorest that can't afford new ones. LTNs are also a joke as they largely direct traffic away from the desirable roads and completely clog up and pollute the lower income roads.
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Though TBF Uxbridge is an outlier, it's miles away from central London and car ownership is 77% of households. It still has far superior public transport mind you compared with anywhere in the provinces.No
People on the lowest incomes in London are more likely to be pedestrians than car owners. If your concern is social justice, you should support LTNs and ULEZ (like polling shows Londoners do).
I think a lot of this is people applying Coventry/wherever politics to London. London is not a normal British city. It has really low car ownership and a very young and progressive population. Of course it backs these sorts of measures.
Yeah and the lower income argument also doesn't take into account that congestion charges by their nature affect lower income car owners - either because their car is considered environmentally unsound so costs more, or because the charge is a larger proportion of income.outer London car ownership isn’t massively different to other cities - 70% have a car
Though TBF Uxbridge is an outlier, it's miles away from central London and car ownership is 77% of households. It still has far superior public transport mind you compared with anywhere in the provinces.
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I think you might be misunderstanding why car ownership is lower though. When you move here as a single person attempting to build a career you really don't need a car, the public transport is fine and income is irrelevant, its simply not necessary. However when you get older, have a kid that needs to go to school, need to shop for more than 1, you need a car just like anywhere else.You got a source for that? As a whole it’s certainly not true:
View attachment 30807
And as I said ownership skews heavily towards the rich:
View attachment 30808
Exactly this - you only drive in the suburbs to see how many people have cars and vans - London is massive - out to the M25 my BIL is on the border turn right 12.50 thankyouThis
Understanding car ownership in London
Zarin Mahmud explores car ownership trends from the census and the gap betwen inner and outer London. For London to achieve the mayor’s aim of reaching net zero carbon by 2030, a shift away...centreforlondon.org
It is going to disadvantage low earners who own cars and they will have cars that get charged. Also diesel vans for plumbers electricians etc
Imagine having this little fanny as your MP, it'd be like having PVA or something
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You're becoming as obsessed as Grendel. I'm touched.
Cry more.
5 minutes
Since you last thought about me?
Imagine having this little fanny as your MP, it'd be like having PVA or something
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This
Understanding car ownership in London
Zarin Mahmud explores car ownership trends from the census and the gap betwen inner and outer London. For London to achieve the mayor’s aim of reaching net zero carbon by 2030, a shift away...centreforlondon.org
It is going to disadvantage low earners who own cars and they will have cars that get charged. Also diesel vans for plumbers electricians etc
Again low earners are least likely to own a car and most likely to be eligible for scrappage.
Plumbers and electricians earn good money and are also eligible for scrappage and schemes to get better work vehicles.
I know the current GB News meme is about banning ICE cars being terrible and the climate crisis is a lie, but back in the real world this stuff has to happen because what you’re not counting in your equation are the people dying from breathing conditions, hit by cars, or just unable to get around because of a car focus pricing them out. And that’s before you get to the climate. And it’s not even all ICE cars anyway!
It sucks that people bought diesel by mistake, lots of fingers to point, but it doesn’t change the fact the mistake needs fixing. Maybe campaign for a diesel scrappage that allows people to upgrade and the govenrment eats the cost?
No
People on the lowest incomes in London are more likely to be pedestrians than car owners. If your concern is social justice, you should support LTNs and ULEZ (like polling shows Londoners do).
I think a lot of this is people applying Coventry/wherever politics to London. London is not a normal British city. It has really low car ownership and a very young and progressive population. Of course it backs these sorts of measures.
100% re cars and ownershipI used to live and work in this part of London. It's suburban, but it's not all posh and wealthy by any means. Not everyone there works in the City, and there's a fair proportion of stretched lower and middle income people and families who rely on having a car and can't afford to just replace it. It's definitively not like central London in terms of demographics or density of public transport.
Extending ULEZ is a sound concept, but to try to enforce it without adequate support when so many are struggling is always going to result in resistance and Labour can probably expect to get punished for it again in similar parts of outer London.
Combine that with a Labour party that offered no positive reason to vote for them beyond, "we're not Tories", and it's not surprising that the local issue caught the voters attention.
I don't think the result will worry Labour overly, and what you saw from Starmer here (i.e. fuck all), is what you'll see going forward. A policy vacuum, an empty husk, a man who's outstanding talent is not wearing a blue tie. I suspect that has a limited shelf life if he gets in power...
I used to live and work in this part of London. It's suburban, but it's not all posh and wealthy by any means. Not everyone there works in the City, and there's a fair proportion of stretched lower and middle income people and families who rely on having a car and can't afford to just replace it. It's definitively not like central London in terms of demographics or density of public transport.
Extending ULEZ is a sound concept, but to try to enforce it without adequate support when so many are struggling is always going to result in resistance and Labour can probably expect to get punished for it again in similar parts of outer London.
Combine that with a Labour party that offered no positive reason to vote for them beyond, "we're not Tories", and it's not surprising that the local issue caught the voters attention.
I don't think the result will worry Labour overly, and what you saw from Starmer here (i.e. fuck all), is what you'll see going forward. A policy vacuum, an empty husk, a man who's outstanding talent is not wearing a blue tie. I suspect that has a limited shelf life if he gets in power...
The poorest can get a scrap page scheme for their old car. And as I’ve said the actual poorest don’t own cars. And are paying with their health right now.
The very poorest, those on benefits can get scrappage, £2000. Might be tricky to get a reliable ULEZ compliant motor for that, but regardless that excludes a very large proportion of working families who are already struggling and need their car for work and other purposes. Whether you accept it or not, there's clearly a lot of concern about the policy, and a lot of it is entirely justified imho. If we're serious about saving the environment then we've got to fund it properly rather than putting it on the shoulders of those who are already struggling. Labour have already backed away from that concept, of course.
We absolutely should fund it properly.
How?
With money
Brilliant so anyone who has an old car gets a new one? Everywhere or just London?
It really is miles out, I went to Uxbridge for work a few years ago and stayed in some rooms they let at Brunel University. It was pretty shite for pubs but one of the locals did take us to a really decent indian restaurant. The precinct bit in the centre of Uxbridge was reminiscent of any provincial town tbh.
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