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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (33 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,051
Project fear in it

Vauxhall-maker warns Brexit may force it to close UK factory

Vauxhall-maker Stellantis is calling on the government to renegotiate some Brexit rules or risk losing electric
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Reactions: duffer and Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,052
skybluetony176 said:
We’ll never be as productive as we could be simply because it’s a moving target. It’s an unachievable goal. So it’s a misnomer.

You’re adding your own context. I never once inferred that people would rather not work, I was talking in specifics of furlough when I said no one wanted to do it. The fact is people have a choice in this country when it comes to work including unskilled manual labour jobs and the fact is people would rather a permanent job in a warm warehouse packing boxes than they would doing seasonal work in fields in all weathers. You can’t blame people for that.
Click to expand...

I don’t blame people at all, they can work where they want but you suggested Brits don’t want to work in things like picking and hospitality. My point is if they are able to and we can structure pay and benefits right maybe they should.

By importing large amounts cheap labour we seem to have bred a culture of minimal investment, poor working conditions, lower wages and people thinking certain jobs are beneath them. All of those things need addressing by a government with the imagination and political will to do so, I’m just not confident any party will.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, dutchman, duffer and 1 other person
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,053
skybluetony176 said:
Project fear in it

Vauxhall-maker warns Brexit may force it to close UK factory

Vauxhall-maker Stellantis is calling on the government to renegotiate some Brexit rules or risk losing electric
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

Just a very shit negotiated deal and an anti business investment culture which sees no significant government support in key future technologies and industries like gigafactories

Basically nobody seems to have a plan or vision as to what the U.K. will be or wants to be in future
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,054
Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't have much to argue with the last two paragraphs, but who's brave enough to pay for the support? You know when it comes to that 700k certain factions will weaponise that too.

And of course that support and raising if be wages should be there regardless of immigration policy too.
Click to expand...

My point is that if you have an influx of cheap Labour willing to accept lower wages and poorer conditions, where’s the incentive for the employer to invest more in machinery, equipment and/or people.

When there was the hauliers shortage last year all I heard on the radio was driver after driver saying they were treated like mugs, no toilet/wash room facilities and made to wait for hours on end by supermarkets etc. that’s why so many sacked off the job

Our answer has been, if you won’t do the job, let’s bring in people who will accept those things
 
Last edited: May 17, 2023
Reactions: duffer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,055
CCFCSteve said:
Just a very shit negotiated deal and an anti business investment culture which sees no significant government support in key future technologies and industries like gigafactories

Basically nobody seems to have a plan or vision as to what the U.K. will be or wants to be in future
Click to expand...
The government (under May) did throw some grants to car manufacturers to keep them in the UK post brexit. Seem to recall Nissan getting a big grant and Luton being secured based on paint facilities. Obviously that was a different time and we were still in the we hold all the card because of German cars and French wine and cheese mentality. The government clearly hasn’t moved on from that time and are being blindsided because they’re being steered by the lunatic elements in their party. Basically the Tories are ruining nationalism for everyone.
 
Reactions: duffer
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,056
skybluetony176 said:
The government (under May) did throw some grants to car manufacturers to keep them in the UK post brexit. Seem to recall Nissan getting a big grant and Luton being secured based on paint facilities. Obviously that was a different time and we were still in the we hold all the card because of German cars and French wine and cheese mentality. The government clearly hasn’t moved on from that time and are being blindsided because they’re being steered by the lunatic elements in their party. Basically the Tories are ruining nationalism for everyone.
Click to expand...

Agree. There’s no long term strategy/vision. Hoping Sunak or starmer (or Davey ) comes up with something soon !
 
Reactions: Grendel

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,057
CCFCSteve said:
My point is that if you have an influx of cheap Labour willing to accept lower wages and poorer conditions, where’s the incentive for the employer to invest more in machinery, equipment and/or people.

When there was the hauliers shortage last year all I heard on the radio was driver after driver saying they were treated like mugs, no toilet/wash room facilities and made to wait for hours on end by supermarkets etc. that’s why so many sacked off the job

Our answer has been, if you won’t do the job, let’s bring in people who will accept those things
Click to expand...
The thing is people as you point out have a choice, which isn’t a bad thing for the population. If their choices mean we have to bring in foreign workers to fill the gaps that’s only a negative if you want it to be.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,058
CCFCSteve said:
Agree. There’s no long term strategy/vision. Hoping Sunak or starmer (or Davey ) comes up with something soon !
Click to expand...
Starmer has reiterated this morning when posed with the question following the comments from Vauxhalls owners that there’s no going back into the EU but they will be looking to renegotiate elements of the Brexit deal. He didn’t specify what, when, how or where mind. Just said that Boris’ oven ready deal wasn’t even half baked.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,059
Not project fear.....just another multi-national corporate getting its excuses in early....

All the manufacturers within the EU also face the same rules & quotas, which is why it will probably be re-negotiated.

Ofcourse, State investment in UK gigafactories would be great and would not be hampered at all by brexit...... but its clear the cunts in charge aren't gonna invest though.....lets see if nowhere-man Starmer comes up with a plan....
 
Reactions: Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,060
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Not project fear.....just another multi-national corporate getting its excuses in early....

All the manufacturers within the EU also face the same rules & quotas, which is why it will probably be re-negotiated.

Ofcourse, State investment in UK gigafactories would be great and would not be hampered at all by brexit...... but its clear the cunts in charge aren't gonna invest though.....lets see if nowhere-man Starmer comes up with a plan....
Click to expand...

Stalantis is just flexing its muscles. It’s ironic how people defend corporate global dominance when it suits their argument
 
Reactions: jimmyhillsfanclub

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,061
Grendel said:
Stalantis is just flexing its muscles. It’s ironic how people defend corporate global dominance when it suits their argument
Click to expand...
No more ironic than people using it to justify brexit. Remember, the EU were going to crumble as we held all the cards as corporate global dominant companies would insist that the EU bow to us as they want to sell cars here. Never happened did it. Not only that the situation we now find ourselves in proves what project fear stated all along. The corporate global dominant companies never once flexed their muscles during brexit negotiations. They are now and it’s not because we hold all the cards is it?
 
Reactions: Grendel

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,062
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Not project fear.....just another multi-national corporate getting its excuses in early....

All the manufacturers within the EU also face the same rules & quotas, which is why it will probably be re-negotiated.

Ofcourse, State investment in UK gigafactories would be great and would not be hampered at all by brexit...... but its clear the cunts in charge aren't gonna invest though.....lets see if nowhere-man Starmer comes up with a plan....
Click to expand...
The EU is already heavily invested in GIGAfactories though. VW on its own has just started building 6, EU companies altogether are on course to deliver a further 25 by 2025, people investing in the EU also has access to the EIB for funding. We’re being left behind by the EU and yes the UK government isn’t stepping up in place of the EU but that’s only part of the issue. The truth is that brexit has made the UK less attractive and less viable for investment, not just the motor industry. The numbers are in and they don’t lie.
 
Reactions: duffer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,063
In related news

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2023-05-16/more-delays-for-britishvolt-gigafactory-project-in-row-over-buy-back-clause
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,064
Dowdens debut at PMQs today. Didn’t even make it past the first question before avoiding answering what he was asked and going on about Corbyn instead
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,065
CCFCSteve said:
Agree. There’s no long term strategy/vision. Hoping Sunak or starmer (or Davey ) comes up with something soon !
Click to expand...

I'm with you on almost all of this mate.

However I think the Tories do have a strategy: low taxation, deregulation, privatisation, reduced workers rights, shredded welfare state.

What worries me is the complete lack of a coherent alternative to this from the Labour party.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sick Boy and fernandopartridge

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,066
clint van damme said:
More nazi sympathy in the Spectator. There's a very dangerous element in the tories gaining more and more traction.
Click to expand...

I love that the Tory right wing has now banded together under the "National Conservatives" banner. Or "NatC", in short.

Reminds me so much of that classic line in The Producers "Springtime for Hitler".

'Don't be stupid, be a smartie,
Come and join the NatC Party'

It would be funny if it wasn't so concerning.
We've got elected MPs talking about 'cultural marxism' (an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory), removing the right to protest/strike, and basically saying that the only good family is man+woman+many, many, children. Pretty much work will set you free, etc etc..

It would be completely laughable except that some of these people are dangerously close to the levers of power.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Deleted member 9744, skybluetony176 and 2 others

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,067
duffer said:
I'm with you on almost all of this mate.

However I think the Tories do have a strategy: low taxation, deregulation, privatisation, reduced workers rights, shredded welfare state.

What worries me is the complete lack of a coherent alternative to this from the Labour party.
Click to expand...

Bless Steve, he still loves to believe the Conversatives are in government because they want Britain to be a better place
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,068
duffer said:
I'm with you on almost all of this mate.

However I think the Tories do have a strategy: low taxation, deregulation, privatisation, reduced workers rights, shredded welfare state.

What worries me is the complete lack of a coherent alternative to this from the Labour party.
Click to expand...

There’s no majority in the PCP for that manifesto TBH.

I think a focus on skills and energy is OK, along with negotiating sector deals on conditions. It’s not making me weep with joy but it’s OK and lightheaded ahead of whatever the Tories are doing.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,069
fernandopartridge said:
Bless Steve, he still loves to believe the Conversatives are in government because they want Britain to be a better place
Click to expand...

…and for the greater good of mankind
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,070
Another own-goal by Starmer...

Labour would build on green belt to boost housing, says Starmer

Sir Keir Starmer says building should be allowed where it does not "affect the beauty of our countryside".
www.bbc.co.uk
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2023
  • #29,071
dutchman said:
Another own-goal by Starmer...

Labour would build on green belt to boost housing, says Starmer

Sir Keir Starmer says building should be allowed where it does not "affect the beauty of our countryside".
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

Nah he’s absolutely right. Fuck the green belt and build sustainably wherever you are.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,072
dutchman said:
Another own-goal by Starmer...

Labour would build on green belt to boost housing, says Starmer

Sir Keir Starmer says building should be allowed where it does not "affect the beauty of our countryside".
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

15 minutes after we've just qualified for the play of final, weird.
And any tory objection is disingenuous bollocks seen as their mates are pumping tonnes of shit in to our waterways daily.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,073
shmmeee said:
Nah he’s absolutely right. Fuck the green belt and build sustainably wherever you are.
Click to expand...
I know you said sustainably but there are a lot of complex issues involving physical and mental health, flooding etc. in having large areas developed with a lack of green space. If we do start building on then a huge amount is going to have to be retained as green space unless we want to have a huge bill for all those problems.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,074
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I know you said sustainably but there are a lot of complex issues involving physical and mental health, flooding etc. in having large areas developed with a lack of green space. If we do start building on then a huge amount is going to have to be retained as green space unless we want to have a huge bill for all those problems.
Click to expand...

Green middle.

Make planning regs such that urban areas are healthy for both humans and nature. It’s perfectly possible. I get why people are worried about developers being let loose, but that’s already a problem everywhere that’s not green belt and GB massively distorts land values and isn’t based on anything like ecology or beauty. There’s no green belt outside England and those places haven’t been turned into car parks.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,075
I seee the latest narrative been driven by the government and their client media is that sewage in the waterways is the publics fault for having the temerity to shit and piss.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,076
clint van damme said:
I seee the latest narrative been driven by the government and their client media is that sewage in the waterways is the publics fault for having the temerity to shit and piss.
Click to expand...

Of course the public will have to pay for something that’s not their fault.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,077
clint van damme said:
I seee the latest narrative been driven by the government and their client media is that sewage in the waterways is the publics fault for having the temerity to shit and piss.
Click to expand...

They'll join it up with the let them starve policy soon enough
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,078
fernandopartridge said:
They'll join it up with the let them starve policy soon enough
Click to expand...
no food
no sewage
no problem

that's rishi's next lectern sign sorted
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,079

Sunak stands by pledge to protect green belt after Starmer housing comments

PM draws dividing line with Labour after opposition leader’s call for building ‘where appropriate’ to make homes more affordable
www.theguardian.com
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2023
  • #29,080
clint van damme said:
I seee the latest narrative been driven by the government and their client media is that sewage in the waterways is the publics fault for having the temerity to shit and piss.
Click to expand...

Didn’t Hill have 10 shits the other day though ? The waterway systems is not set up to deal with that
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2023
  • #29,081
Braverman should be toast now but sunak doesn't have a spine

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Ian1779

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2023
  • #29,082
David O'Day said:
Braverman should be toast now but sunak doesn't have a spine

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
In another era she’d be out of government faster than a speeding car.
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2023
  • #29,083
David O'Day said:
Braverman should be toast now but sunak doesn't have a spine

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
What's she done now?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2023
  • #29,084
JAM See said:
What's she done now?
Click to expand...
Tried to use her position to get off a speeding fine.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2023
  • #29,085
skybluetony176 said:
Tried to use her position to get off a speeding fine.
Click to expand...
Which position?
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
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