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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (31 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2023
  • #28,911
skybluetony176 said:
Here’s a good article on the cost to the economy from mental health issues. Spoiler alert, around 75% of that cost is lost productivity of people dealing with mental health issues. The arguments for investing in mental health care are broad and multifaceted. It’s not just about the prison population. In fact it’s only a small part of the bigger issue.

Mental health problems cost UK economy at least £118 billion a year - new research

The cost of mental health problems is equivalent to around 5 per cent of the UK
www.lse.ac.uk
Click to expand...

Not a simple switch to flick though TBF. Obviously huge scope for improvement, but good MH care is expensive and good therapists are rare. The whole pipeline needs looking at. Weirdly I sort of hope AI might do some good work here. The chat bot type stuff has shown promise. I wouldn’t want to just medicate everyone.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve and Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2023
  • #28,912
shmmeee said:
Not a simple switch to flick though TBF. Obviously huge scope for improvement, but good MH care is expensive and good therapists are rare. The whole pipeline needs looking at. Weirdly I sort of hope AI might do some good work here. The chat bot type stuff has shown promise. I wouldn’t want to just medicate everyone.
Click to expand...

I share your hopes. It will be interesting to see how AI develops. If it’s as good as people are saying it could potentially help with medical and mental health issues in the not too distant future
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2023
  • #28,913
David O'Day said:
he'd be stupid to say he would get rid of it

if he did what you wanted he'd walk into a tory trap daily
Click to expand...
This is bollocks.

Just goes to prove that a) he is a complete liar and b) completely absent of any of the qualities that the party he leads was founded upon.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2023
  • #28,914
Ian1779 said:
This is bollocks.

Just goes to prove that a) he is a complete liar and b) completely absent of any of the qualities that the party he leads was founded upon.
Click to expand...
Ok, cool
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2023
  • #28,915
Ian1779 said:
Just goes to prove that a) he is a complete liar
Click to expand...
Looking like this is what the Tories are going to go with, if not for the election campaign then at least for the next few months. The can't trust Starmer because everything he promises he goes back on line

Be interesting to see what Labour come up with to counter that because he's not exactly got a strong track record on that front
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,916
Sunak’s doing his best to out do Starmer when it comes to breaking promises

Chris Mason: Sunak pledge to scrap EU laws collides with reality

The PM has U-turned on a government plan to get rid of thousands of EU laws by the end of the year.
www.bbc.co.uk

Another slice of reality collides with the Brexit bus.
 
Reactions: oakey

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,917
skybluetony176 said:
Sunak’s doing his best to out do Starmer when it comes to breaking promises

Chris Mason: Sunak pledge to scrap EU laws collides with reality

The PM has U-turned on a government plan to get rid of thousands of EU laws by the end of the year.
www.bbc.co.uk

Another slice of reality collides with the Brexit bus.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was ever actually a government plan, in the sense that it was made by somebody speaking as a member of the government. It was always impossible. It's Tories making silly promises to appease their base / distract from the mess.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,918
chiefdave said:
Looking like this is what the Tories are going to go with, if not for the election campaign then at least for the next few months. The can't trust Starmer because everything he promises he goes back on line

Be interesting to see what Labour come up with to counter that because he's not exactly got a strong track record on that front
Click to expand...

I watched PMs questions for the first time in a while yesterday and I thought Sunak actually did quite well with that line of attack because it's very hard to defend.

Like it or not, Sunak also nailed Starmer on his complete lack of policies.

At some point you'd imagine Labour will have to start saying what they're actually going to stand for...

At the moment we're back to the bad old days of having an opposition party that's too scared of actually opposing anything. This is exactly how Labour ended up supporting a massively unequal austerity package and the hideously unfair "Welfare" bill the first time around.
 
Reactions: rondog1973 and Sick Boy
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,919
duffer said:
At some point you'd imagine Labour will have to start saying what they're actually going to stand for...
Click to expand...
Yeah tbh I'm not worried until and unless I see blank pages as a manifesto.

Then I'll join you with the pitchforks!
 
Reactions: PVA and shmmeee

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,920
fernandopartridge said:
I don't think it was ever actually a government plan, in the sense that it was made by somebody speaking as a member of the government. It was always impossible. It's Tories making silly promises to appease their base / distract from the mess.
Click to expand...
It was and still is a Bill being debated in the House. They’re tabling an amendment next week to reduce the amount from 4000 to 600. Still unrealistic though. There was a reason why the EU has all those unelected bureaucrats and the reality is we don’t have enough on our own to work through them. It took EU bureaucrats decades to investigate, educate and draft all those laws, the idea that we can “sort out” even 600 in seven months is like everything else brexit, a fantasy.
 
Reactions: duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,921
Deleted member 5849 said:
Yeah tbh I'm not worried until and unless I see blank pages as a manifesto.

Then I'll join you with the pitchforks!
Click to expand...

Beg to differ, NW.

The point of the opposition is to rigorously scrutinise, oppose, and propose alternatives during the lifetime of parliament, not just in the last few months when there's an election looming. Otherwise they might as well not bother to be there.

Corbyn undoubtedly had many faults, but at least he stood strongly against austerity and as a result the government shifted tack.

What does Starmer stand for and what difference is he making right now to what's going on at Westminster.

Are we going to have to wait for a year to find out, or in essence is he actually what he appears to be; broadly aligned with this government's direction of travel but wearing a different colour tie?
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,922
skybluetony176 said:
Sunak’s doing his best to out do Starmer when it comes to breaking promises

Chris Mason: Sunak pledge to scrap EU laws collides with reality

The PM has U-turned on a government plan to get rid of thousands of EU laws by the end of the year.
www.bbc.co.uk

Another slice of reality collides with the Brexit bus.
Click to expand...
u-turned on getting rid of leaseholds as well
 
Reactions: duffer

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,923
duffer said:
Beg to differ, NW.

The point of the opposition is to rigorously scrutinise, oppose, and propose alternatives during the lifetime of parliament, not just in the last few months when there's an election looming. Otherwise they might as well not bother to be there.

Corbyn undoubtedly had many faults, but at least he stood strongly against austerity and as a result the government shifted tack.

What does Starmer stand for and what difference is he making right now to what's going on at Westminster.

Are we going to have to wait for a year to find out, or in essence is he actually what he appears to be; broadly aligned with this government's direction of travel but wearing a different colour tie?
Click to expand...
But no opposition does that, the Cameron tories only had 1 policy during they whole time they were in opposition
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,924
skybluetony176 said:
It was and still is a Bill being debated in the House. They’re tabling an amendment next week to reduce the amount from 4000 to 600. Still unrealistic though. There was a reason why the EU has all those unelected bureaucrats and the reality is we don’t have enough on our own to work through them. It took EU bureaucrats decades to investigate, educate and draft all those laws, the idea that we can “sort out” even 600 in seven months is like everything else brexit, a fantasy.
Click to expand...

The one I work with everyday (public contracts) is due to be replaced by a new domestic law which is broadly similar, it has taken 2.5 years so far and it isn't even due to become law until this time next year.

I don't have a problem with replacing EU derived laws over time but it should be within a proper framework of what the UK's actual ambitions are, not just for vanity reasons.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and CCFCSteve

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,925
David O'Day said:
But no opposition does that, the Cameron tories only had 1 policy during they whole time they were in opposition
Click to expand...

They were a tremendous government of course and romped home to a coalition with the Lib Dems
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,926
duffer said:
Beg to differ, NW.

The point of the opposition is to rigorously scrutinise, oppose, and propose alternatives during the lifetime of parliament, not just in the last few months when there's an election looming. Otherwise they might as well not bother to be there.

Corbyn undoubtedly had many faults, but at least he stood strongly against austerity and as a result the government shifted tack.

What does Starmer stand for and what difference is he making right now to what's going on at Westminster.

Are we going to have to wait for a year to find out, or in essence is he actually what he appears to be; broadly aligned with this government's direction of travel but wearing a different colour tie?
Click to expand...

There is always a concern that popular policies from opposition parties will be nicked so I understand why they would’ve held back to date, however, with a likely year to go until GE, nows the time to start building a picture as to what people would be voting for.
 
Last edited: May 11, 2023
Reactions: duffer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,927
fernandopartridge said:
The one I work with everyday (public contracts) is due to be replaced by a new domestic law which is broadly similar, it has taken 2.5 years so far and it isn't even due to become law until this time next year.

I don't have a problem with replacing EU derived laws over time but it should be within a proper framework of what the UK's actual ambitions are, not just for vanity reasons.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly why even 600 is complete fantasy. I’m not sure how anyone takes them seriously, especially their own backbenchers who see how long it takes to get from an idea to a bill to then actually implemented in law once passed. We’re talking months of work at least on a single issue. They’re either complete idiots (quite possible with the 2019 intake) or they think the electorate are.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,928
skybluetony176 said:
Which is exactly why even 600 is complete fantasy. I’m not sure how anyone takes them seriously, especially their own backbenchers who see how long it takes to get from an idea to a bill to then actually implemented in law once passed. We’re talking months of work at least on a single issue. They’re either complete idiots (quite possible with the 2019 intake) or they think the electorate are.
Click to expand...

Ironically, the only way they could possibly do it is by taking it out of parliament's hands!
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,929
I see interest rates have just gone up again.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,930
skybluetony176 said:
I see interest rates have just gone up again.
Click to expand...
inflation not going down
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,931
David O'Day said:
u-turned on getting rid of leaseholds as well
Click to expand...
Missed that.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,932
skybluetony176 said:
Missed that.
Click to expand...

Plans to abolish ‘feudal’ leasehold system in England and Wales dropped

Row between Michael Gove and No 10 results in end of promise to scrap leaseholds
www.theguardian.com
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,933

That's why we pay him the big bucks
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve and Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,934
David O'Day said:
inflation not going down
Click to expand...

Yeah, not good. Always thought Sunak made a boob by saying he’ll get inflation halved by end of the year. Some policy decisions might help but he’s got fuck all control over it in the grand scheme of things. BoE now expect it to still be around 5% end of year

On a more positive note BoE growth forecasts have significantly improved from expecting eight quarter recession which was typically overly negative (forecast last autumn) to now not going into recession at all and an overall 2.25% improvement over three years. Not that I’ll hang my hat on these either !
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,935
CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, not good. Always thought Sunak made a boob by saying he’ll get inflation halved by end of the year. Some policy decisions might help but he’s got fuck all control over it in the grand scheme of things. BoE now expect it to still be around 5% end of year

On a more positive note BoE growth forecasts have significantly improved from expecting eight quarter recession which was typically overly negative (forecast last autumn) to now not going into recession at all and an overall 2.25% improvement over three years. Not that I’ll hang my hat on these either !
Click to expand...
The BoE hiking interest rates having no effect on inflation, so let's try some more. Honestly, this country.
 
Reactions: chiefdave and Sky Blue Pete

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,936
fernandopartridge said:
The BoE hiking interest rates having no effect on inflation, so let's try some more. Honestly, this country.
Click to expand...
They’ve got to get the plebs to give “their” money back to the wealthiest somehow.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,937
fernandopartridge said:
They were a tremendous government of course and romped home to a coalition with the Lib Dems
Click to expand...
not the point anyone was making
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,938
David O'Day said:
Ok, cool
Click to expand...
I understand - Starmer’s rationale is so utterly clueless that you can’t even be bothered to make some shit up to defend him anymore.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,939
Ian1779 said:
I understand - Starmer’s rationale is so utterly clueless that you can’t even be bothered to make some shit up to defend him anymore.
Click to expand...
nah, just can't be bothered to argue with folk who's minds are so made up the don't realise the utter drivel they spout.

Life is far to short for that so I'll just smile at the nonsense you post about Starmer and give thanks he isn't doing what you say and walking into tory traps.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,940
David O'Day said:
nah, just can't be bothered to argue with folk who's minds are so made up the don't realise the utter drivel they spout.

Life is far to short for that so I'll just smile at the nonsense you post about Starmer and give thanks he isn't doing what you say and walking into tory traps.
Click to expand...
The ‘Tory trap’ may have some validity in other areas, but in no way is justified in this case.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,941
Ian1779 said:
The ‘Tory trap’ may have some validity in other areas, but in no way is justified in this case.
Click to expand...
cool
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,942
David O'Day said:
cool
Click to expand...

Excellent political analysis
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,943
David O'Day said:
he'd be stupid to say he would get rid of it

if he did what you wanted he'd walk into a tory trap daily
Click to expand...

Even the GB News comment section thinks it’s stupid
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2023
  • #28,944
David O'Day said:
not the point anyone was making
Click to expand...
Why did you use them as an example then? The parallels with today are interesting

Party in power for 13 years
Massive economic shock making everybody worse off
Both parties pretending they need to balance the books
 
Reactions: duffer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2023
  • #28,945
 
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