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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (10 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,811
skybluetony176 said:
Labour chief of staff.
Click to expand...
Does seem a tactical error mind you, as it does allow for those kind of accusations, baseless or not.

Why allow mud to be thrown, when there are plenty who can do that job?
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744 and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,812
I’m sure this will surprise nobody but…

 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,813
Deleted member 5849 said:
Does seem a tactical error mind you, as it does allow for those kind of accusations, baseless or not.

Why allow mud to be thrown, when there are plenty who can do that job?
Click to expand...
The right has certainly lost its shit over the appointment.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,814
Brighton Sky Blue said:
60% of parents surveyed support the teachers strike, just 20% oppose.
Click to expand...


It’s a shame more teachers unions aren’t striking , not sure how schools are dealing with it at my daughters school if you get free school meals you can attend if not you have to stay at home.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,815
Deleted member 5849 said:
Does seem a tactical error mind you, as it does allow for those kind of accusations, baseless or not.

Why allow mud to be thrown, when there are plenty who can do that job?
Click to expand...
Certainly doesn’t help the idea of trying to improve trust in politicians either.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,816
Brighton Sky Blue said:
‘I wasn’t insulting all teachers, just the 800,000 who belong to a union’

Labour attacks Sir Gavin Williamson over teachers 'insult' in leaked texts

The then education secretary appears to question teachers' work ethic in leaked pandemic texts.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Never understood MP's who use the argument of teachers having long holidays.

MP's weren't sat for 18 weeks in the last year, and are getting a week for the coronation.

And before someone like Grendel point outs that they've got constituency work and white papers etc. to get to the actual chamber, see marking and lesson planning.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,817
Deleted member 5849 said:
Does seem a tactical error mind you, as it does allow for those kind of accusations, baseless or not.

Why allow mud to be thrown, when there are plenty who can do that job?
Click to expand...
Does seem like a very silly appointment because it will lead to accusations like this, no matter how untrue they may be.

Though if what many of the Tories are arguing now, it suggests Johnson is a poor judge of character and therefore not a great pick for PM. So either way he shouldn't have had the job.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,818
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Does seem like a very silly appointment because it will lead to accusations like this, no matter how untrue they may be.

Though if what many of the Tories are arguing now, it suggests Johnson is a poor judge of character and therefore not a great pick for PM. So either way he shouldn't have had the job.
Click to expand...

I'm no fan of Starmer but when it comes to cronyism and jobs for the boys and girls I don't think he'll be short of dirt to throw back at the tories.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,819
Terry Gibson's perm said:
It’s a shame more teachers unions aren’t striking , not sure how schools are dealing with it at my daughters school if you get free school meals you can attend if not you have to stay at home.
Click to expand...
The anti-union rules did a very good job for the most part. NAHT, one of the Heads' unions, got a huge % voting in favour of strike action, but turnout was 40% instead of 50. Similar for NASUWT who got 90% of those who voted to support strike action, but turnout was 42%.

All the ballots have to be done by post and as we all know, this was during a time of postal strike action and general postal disruption. NEU got turnout of 54% despite all that, and we have now gained over 50,000 members since the ballot result was announced. Which tells you that actually, far from being 'told to strike', the demand is clearly from the profession.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,820
The Sue Gray move is genius.

Brings tory partygate back into play and if it upsets Nadine they that is a vote winner
 
Reactions: oakey and Sky Blue Pete

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,821
David O'Day said:
The Sue Gray move is genius.

Brings tory partygate back into play and if it upsets Nadine they that is a vote winner
Click to expand...
Rees Mogg upset too.
 
Reactions: oakey and Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,822
skybluetony176 said:
Rees Mogg upset too.
Click to expand...
bonus
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,823
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The anti-union rules did a very good job for the most part. NAHT, one of the Heads' unions, got a huge % voting in favour of strike action, but turnout was 40% instead of 50. Similar for NASUWT who got 90% of those who voted to support strike action, but turnout was 42%.

All the ballots have to be done by post and as we all know, this was during a time of postal strike action and general postal disruption. NEU got turnout of 54% despite all that, and we have now gained over 50,000 members since the ballot result was announced. Which tells you that actually, far from being 'told to strike', the demand is clearly from the profession.
Click to expand...
We hit 58% second ballot and over 80% in favour of strike first day 15/3
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,824
Sky Blue Pete said:
We hit 58% second ballot and over 80% in favour of strike first day 15/3
Click to expand...
Next national strike day also 15/3
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,825
clint van damme said:
I'm no fan of Starmer but when it comes to cronyism and jobs for the boys and girls I don't think he'll be short of dirt to throw back at the tories.
Click to expand...
Two words.

Andy. Coulson.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 2, 2023
  • #26,826
clint van damme said:
I'm no fan of Starmer but when it comes to cronyism and jobs for the boys and girls I don't think he'll be short of dirt to throw back at the tories.
Click to expand...
Undoubtedly, but unfortunately we seem to have a position in this country where there are two sets of standards. Tories could, and probably do, have ten times the amount of wrongdoing and cronyism than Labour yet somehow the impact on public perception and therefore voting intention would be more harmful to Labour.

Tories can do cronyism and it's almost expected and so shouldn't be held against them. Labour do it and they should be held to higher standards and so it becomes a reason you shouldn't vote for them.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,827
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Undoubtedly, but unfortunately we seem to have a position in this country where there are two sets of standards. Tories could, and probably do, have ten times the amount of wrongdoing and cronyism than Labour yet somehow the impact on public perception and therefore voting intention would be more harmful to Labour.

Tories can do cronyism and it's almost expected and so shouldn't be held against them. Labour do it and they should be held to higher standards and so it becomes a reason you shouldn't vote for them.
Click to expand...
This isn’t cronyism this is a misunderstanding of the impartiality of the civil service and a historic distrust in that impartiality by members of the Tory party.
It wasn’t sue gray that damned Boris it was the evidence which was what she was asked to provide
If grown men and women can’t understand that then boy I don’t know
 
Reactions: oakey and skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,828
Sky Blue Pete said:
This isn’t cronyism this is a misunderstanding of the impartiality of the civil service and a historic distrust in that impartiality by members of the Tory party.
It wasn’t sue gray that damned Boris it was the evidence which was what she was asked to provide
If grown men and women can’t understand that then boy I don’t know
Click to expand...
He did it at the end of the day, that’s beyond doubt not that it was ever in doubt. Sue Gray didn’t do this in her own. She spoke to dozens and dozens of witnesses, were they all in on it? Was the photographic and video evidence faked? Was the MET who issued the fines based on the evidence in on it? The only thing her appointment proves is exactly what some people in the Tory party are, a bunch of opportunist charlatans who think the electorate are stupid.
 
Reactions: oakey

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,829
skybluetony176 said:
He did it at the end of the day, that’s beyond doubt not that it was ever in doubt. Sue Gray didn’t do this in her own. She spoke to dozens and dozens of witnesses, were they all in on it? Was the photographic and video evidence faked? Was the MET who issued the fines based on the evidence in on it? The only thing her appointment proves is exactly what some people in the Tory party are, a bunch of opportunist charlatans who think the electorate are stupid.
Click to expand...
And I suppose being balanced that the Labour Party aren’t good at playing these games. I’m not saying that shes not good at her job but there’s probably a fair few people who would be just as good and she has some high profile history

anyway being offered the role says nothing about the job she’s previously done other than she must have done them well
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Deleted member 5849
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,830
Another reason why a move for Sue Grey might be stupid timing...

 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,831
There’s a lot of complacency about the next GE - if Sunak gets the protocol through, he’s shaping into a PM that could prove tricky for Labour.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge and Deleted member 5849
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,832
Sick Boy said:
There’s a lot of complacency about the next GE - if Sunak gets the protocol through, he’s shaping into a PM that could prove tricky for Labour.
Click to expand...

Nah, the poll leads are too big, the Tories are done for. Labour will win, it's just a question of by how much.

Obviously the polls will narrow though, they aren't going to be left with 20 seats or whatever the current projections have them at.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,833
Sick Boy said:
There’s a lot of complacency about the next GE - if Sunak gets the protocol through, he’s shaping into a PM that could prove tricky for Labour.
Click to expand...
I think it depends on how he gets it though. If there’s a rebellion in the Tories and it’s big enough that it requires Labour to get it through. There’s also the small matter of whether he has the balls or not to issue the 3 line whip and if he does and there’s still rebels what then? I’m sure no one is going to sweat Dorries and a couple of ERG cultists having the whip removed. But what if Johnson votes against the whip? In theory the standard response is to remove the whip. Will he then have the balls to remove the whip from an ex PM? There’s more than one way that Sunak can look weak despite the success of getting the deal in the first place. I don’t doubt he’s going to get some bounce in the polls from the Windsor agreement but if it ends up driving the wedge further into the Tories divide it might be short lived.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,834
Sick Boy said:
There’s a lot of complacency about the next GE - if Sunak gets the protocol through, he’s shaping into a PM that could prove tricky for Labour.
Click to expand...

I do think Labour should win but the majority i think will be far smaller than is currently being predicted. The turnout for the election will be tiny.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,835
skybluetony176 said:
I think it depends on how he gets it though. If there’s a rebellion in the Tories and it’s big enough that it requires Labour to get it through. There’s also the small matter of whether he has the balls or not to issue the 3 line whip and if he does and there’s still rebels what then? I’m sure no one is going to sweat Dorries and a couple of ERG cultists having the whip removed. But what if Johnson votes against the whip? In theory the standard response is to remove the whip. Will he then have the balls to remove the whip from an ex PM? There’s more than one way that Sunak can look weak despite the success of getting the deal in the first place. I don’t doubt he’s going to get some bounce in the polls from the Windsor agreement but if it ends up driving the wedge further into the Tories divide it might be short lived.
Click to expand...
Johnson'd just be on holiday, avoid the issue like he did with Heathrow
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,836
Deleted member 5849 said:
Another reason why a move for Sue Grey might be stupid timing...

Click to expand...
Time will tell but the Tories making a fuss over it I think most sensible people see them as ridiculous people anyway, couple that with them making themselves look even more ridiculous when they start bleating about it. For example

 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,837
Deleted member 5849 said:
Johnson'd just be on holiday, avoid the issue like he did with Heathrow
Click to expand...
I think under the 3 line whip that may still be enough, in theory.

Pretty sure he was out the country on hastily arranged government business for the Heathrow vote. The guy is a coward though so I wouldn’t be surprised if he begrudgingly votes for it but has his cult members vote against it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,838
skybluetony176 said:
I think under the 3 line whip that may still be enough, in theory.

Pretty sure he was out the country on hastily arranged government business for the Heathrow vote. The guy is a coward though so I wouldn’t be surprised if he begrudgingly votes for it but has his cult members vote against it.
Click to expand...

He won’t be in the commons for the vote
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,839
Deleted member 5849 said:
Another reason why a move for Sue Grey might be stupid timing...
Click to expand...

Or really good timing...

Get all the Boris supporters and right wing nutters to spend a few days working themselves into a frenzy and spouting a load of nonsense about him being stitched up, only for the evidence to immediately make them look stupid (again).
 
Reactions: oakey, Sky Blue Pete and Grendel

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,840
fernandopartridge said:
I do think Labour should win but the majority i think will be far smaller than is currently being predicted. The turnout for the election will be tiny.
Click to expand...
I could see it being a hung parliament, personally.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,841
Sick Boy said:
I could see it being a hung parliament, personally.
Click to expand...

It shouldn’t be in reality. Sunak I suspect has decided the red wall is a one off and a waste of time trying to defend.

He’s going to concentrate on traditional Tory seats and trying to solidify support in those areas even if it means a defeat

It’s inconceivable labour won’t gain a majority - if they don’t the party is not fit for purpose
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,842
PVA said:
Or really good timing...

Get all the Boris supporters and right wing nutters to spend a few days working themselves into a frenzy and spouting a load of nonsense about him being stitched up, only for the evidence to immediately make them look stupid (again).
Click to expand...
Or alternatively add some smoke without fire, thanks to a Labour decision.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,843
PVA said:
Nah, the poll leads are too big, the Tories are done for. Labour will win, it's just a question of by how much.

Obviously the polls will narrow though, they aren't going to be left with 20 seats or whatever the current projections have them at.
Click to expand...
Disagree. With the media on the Tories' side and the 'they're all as bad and dishonest as each other' narrative things could change quickly. I am not sure the anti immigrants rhetoric is working so well at the moment but a few Daily Mail headlines about individual cases could whip up xenophobia during the election campaign. By the election the disastrous incompetence of Johnson and Truss might seem quite a long time ago.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,844
Announcing Sue Gray’s appointment the day before the privilege committee publicly released its findings my yet prove to be a stroke of genius

Johnson may have misled Parliament over parties, say MPs

Boris Johnson insists he did nothing wrong and will be "vindicated" by an inquiry into his conduct.
www.bbc.co.uk

The response was as inevitable as it was predictable from certain quarters, from the daily mail to Dorries to Rees Mogg to Boris himself. Has Starmer just given them the perfect opportunity to make even more rope to hang themselves? Starting to look like it already.

 
Reactions: oakey

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 3, 2023
  • #26,845
skybluetony176 said:
Announcing Sue Gray’s appointment the day before the privilege committee publicly released its findings my yet prove to be a stroke of genius

Johnson may have misled Parliament over parties, say MPs

Boris Johnson insists he did nothing wrong and will be "vindicated" by an inquiry into his conduct.
www.bbc.co.uk

The response was as inevitable as it was predictable from certain quarters, from the daily mail to Dorries to Rees Mogg to Boris himself. Has Starmer just given them the perfect opportunity to make even more rope to hang themselves? Starting to look like it already.

Click to expand...

I'm struggling to understand how this benefits Labour. Johnson isn't the PM any more and I guess might not even bother to stand at the next election.

The further away we get from lockdown the more people are likely to reflect on the absurdity of some of the rules in place and just shrug their shoulders at this imo.
 
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