He's toxic in the Labour Party. If we want reasons for Brexit, his warmongering (his terms were open and welcoming to many cultures) meaning nobody listened to him, and Clegg's betrayal of Lib Dem voters in coalition (so nobody listened to them either) are up there as much as anything else.When asked the best labour leader none of the candidates said Blair at the last leadership election did they?
What about Brown? Probably doesn't get enough credit for steering through the global financial crisis. The problems since then all a result of the pointless and ideologically driven austerity.
More like as far to the left as you can get. That scares people. On top of that too many skeletons in the closet. You can get away with a little. But there were several and the papers took him to the cleaners.Well, you can with one simple question. Why did Corbyn lose the red wall if not because of brexit? Biggest socialist manifesto in decades and the socialist red wall turned its back on it. A nett loss of 60 seats. There is only one possible answer. Brexit.
But on the other hand he has made millions poorer in old age. He did the massive tax grab on pensions. Look at how many people moan about the pensions being shite these days and the boomers had it all yet defend him. Doesn't make sense.What about Brown? Probably doesn't get enough credit for steering through the global financial crisis. The problems since then all a result of the pointless and ideologically driven austerity.
They also believed the Tory lie and voted against their best interestsMore like as far to the left as you can get. That scares people. On top of that too many skeletons in the closet. You can get away with a little. But there were several and the papers took him to the cleaners.
Look at Starmer. As much charisma as a wet lettuce. But no reasons not to vote for him. No skeletons. But no scaring people. Just what is needed when the Tories are ripping their own party apart.
We were groomed from a young age mate, we're all victims really.They also believed the Tory lie and voted against their best interests
I certainly was in labour coventryWe were groomed from a young age mate, we're all victims really.
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Johnson has a graveyard in his closet and still got a landslide.More like as far to the left as you can get. That scares people. On top of that too many skeletons in the closet. You can get away with a little. But there were several and the papers took him to the cleaners.
Look at Starmer. As much charisma as a wet lettuce. But no reasons not to vote for him. No skeletons. But no scaring people. Just what is needed when the Tories are ripping their own party apart.
Isn’t it time the Tory Brexit extremists just joined Reform UK or whatever it’s called?
Thought he was lining up a Tory safe seat given he will get destroyed in his current constituency.Murmurings that the DUP are going to accept Sunak’s deal. Presumably if that’s true they’ll vote for it in parliament and return to Stormont. Good news if true and it pans out that way. I really didn’t see this coming, maybe they’re not as stupid as I thought and can see the writing on the wall. They’re losing the unionist communities.
On a separate note where would this leave Boris and the ERG. Surely it will kill off Boris’ hopes of a comeback? Finally fell on his sword?
Apparently Suella Braverman is too. Although her seat is/was considered a Tory safe seat. It’s a rural seat and farming/rural areas are reportedly turning their backs on the Tories big time so she’s concerned.Thought he was lining up a Tory safe seat given he will get destroyed in his current constituency.
Pretty much just places like deepest Surrey where they'll be OKApparently Suella Braverman is too. Although her seat is/was considered a Tory safe seat. It’s a rural seat and farming/rural areas are reportedly turning their backs on the Tories big time so she’s concerned.
It’s sounding like Sunak has got a decent deal, all things considered. Tories buoyant in the tea rooms of parliament allegedly.
I say all things considered, the oven ready deal is so bad all Sunak can do is improve it. Either way it sounds like he’s negotiated in good faith and that’s probably the difference. I wonder if he’ll now look at other areas of the oven ready deal? Touring musicians would be an easy one and something rejected by the OutMeAnSoUt cult.
It’s sounding like Sunak has got a decent deal, all things considered. Tories buoyant in the tea rooms of parliament allegedly.
I say all things considered, the oven ready deal is so bad all Sunak can do is improve it. Either way it sounds like he’s negotiated in good faith and that’s probably the difference. I wonder if he’ll now look at other areas of the oven ready deal? Touring musicians would be an easy one and something rejected by the OutMeAnSoUt cult.
Was always going to eventually happen.Heard the chat and assuming this is agreed/passed, it sounds like the plan is to progress other areas ie horizon agreement etc. hopefully it will be the start of a new, more amicable relationship. Both sides have probably recognised that there are far bigger battles to be had than between allies
Sounds like the start of realigning closer with the EU.
Taking back control!
Was always going to eventually happen.
But the EU didn't want other countries to see us prosper after leaving and not paying for the benefits and the Tories didn't want it to make as though they were wrong as usual. But at the end of the day we still depend on each other.
Murmurings that the DUP are going to accept Sunak’s deal. Presumably if that’s true they’ll vote for it in parliament and return to Stormont. Good news if true and it pans out that way. I really didn’t see this coming, maybe they’re not as stupid as I thought and can see the writing on the wall. They’re losing the unionist communities.
On a separate note where would this leave Boris and the ERG. Surely it will kill off Boris’ hopes of a comeback? Finally fell on his sword?
Sounds like the start of realigning closer with the EU.
Taking back control!
Fucking hell
It was always a manufactured problem by Boris and Co. Their rhetoric has always been contradictory, telling us on one hand that we’re going to have the biggest, best, world beating, world leading standards on everything but then refusing to sign up to EU standards on anything as the bottom rung of the ladder. Boris’ brexit team were so disingenuous from the off, all they ever wanted was a deal where they could play victim because they need a bogey man to be relevant.There should be no problem with aligning in certain aspects, especially areas where we have same standards already. This should always been the starting point with a mechanism to deal with any divergences on either side.
Are you OK?
Seeing what you voted for and believed in beginning to turn on its head must be quite hard to take
Well we are the ones who voluntarily have made ourselves worse off and having quietly realised that, even the Tory PM is trying to undo some of it.Was always going to eventually happen.
But the EU didn't want other countries to see us prosper after leaving and not paying for the benefits and the Tories didn't want it to make as though they were wrong as usual. But at the end of the day we still depend on each other.
So you’re saying you didn’t know what you voted for. Bold statement. I applaud your honesty.Not sure why Tony and PVA are laughing. Tony said he’d vote leave regardless in a second referendum and my position post the vote was very much in favour of a compromise arrangement - actually across the whole UK
So you’re saying you didn’t know what you voted for. Bold statement. I applaud your honesty.
Clearly you didn’t. Twice. Given you also voted for the oven ready deal.No Tony I said after the result what the outcome should then be. You on the other hand went full on UKIP
Unlike you tony who voted for UKIP and for the Cameron manifesto that wanted a referendum I knew exactly what I voted for
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