Astute
Well-Known Member
Like countless billions to save people £20 a month on free Internet?
Like countless billions to save people £20 a month on free Internet?I didn’t need to - the manifesto spoke for itself.
He’s not in powerChanging your mind on a policy (nationalisation) that is popular across the voting political spectrum is just plain stupid if you’d prefer.
If Starmer isn't far left enough for you that's absolutely fine, but to say his Labour government would only be a gnats whisker left of this government is just fucking nuts
They've just appointed a guy who is mates with a bunch of white supremacists as deputy chair
Well your choice is sunak starmer or daveyIt's not about being 'not left enough'.
I've just listed some of the problems facing this country which I think are pretty unprecedented.
I think the only way to sort them is through politicians being bold, radical and committed to doing their best for the majority of UK citizens not just a privileged few.
I've no confidence that thats Starmer. If people think it is then fine, we'll see.
Ok and he’s repackaging the offer to the country as time has moved on.
Im not defending anything but he’s not on the level of Johnson
And as for something slightly left not being worthwhile. Course it is
Are you genuinely asking someone to stick to pledges despite what’s changed in the last 2-3 years. You are far from thickhe also was going to pay for some of this by raising the higher tax rate?
Could do it the Tory way and waste billions on things that don't enrich people's lives or wait for the contracts to run down and do something different.
So is it better to change plans depending on the financial mess the Tories have left us with or plough ahead wasting untold billions like the Tories do?
Are you genuinely asking someone to stick to pledges despite what’s changed in the last 2-3 years. You are far from thick
Well your choice is sunak starmer or davey
Its not I agree . Much like nationalising transport would be one of the top of my listWell taxing the rich more you’d think wouldn’t be too controversial
Yeah but ….None are good enough.
Beat me to it although I was also going to add or anyone else.Well your choice is sunak starmer or davey
Are you genuinely asking someone to stick to pledges despite what’s changed in the last 2-3 years. You are far from thick
Who?Beat me to it although I was also going to add or anyone else.
Is that like the Tories who have wasted untold billions on that new rail line that gets even more expensive by the week even though it keeps getting shorter?he also was going to pay for some of this by raising the higher tax rate?
I don’t think I’m missing the point. But it’s possible sure.You're missing the point spectacularly Pete.
Why would you flip flop on nationalising rail or energy?
The railways are far worse than when the pledge was made.
We've got an energy crisis since the pledge was made, people are in fuel poverty, we pay an eye watering amount more for our energy than our close neighbours,why would you roll back on that?
Exactly.Who?
Is that like the Tories who have wasted untold billions on that new rail line that gets even more expensive by the week even though it keeps getting shorter?
How about comparing him to your hero Boris.
I don’t think I’m missing the point. But it’s possible sure.
Am I right in you saying he has deceived people to allow him the labour leadership knowing that at some point before the election he intended to remove the pledges because he has made agreements with the right wing media and establishment to not ruffle feathers
So in order to prove that you need some evidence I think
What is definitely the case is that splitting the centre or left of centre would mean one thing
I find it hard to understand how we desperately need a Labour government yet now we look like getting a Labour government next we have hardened Labour voters that don't want the present Labour leader to become PM. It seems they would prefer someone who would let the Tories back in.The state of this thread. Trying to finesse the `perfect' socialist administration will, and alway has, let the Tories back in.
After 15 years of the country going down the toilet it will literally be a "choose a side" election.
And if anyone remotely left leaning (like myself) effectively sides with Kippers it will happen again. Bravo
I suppose I’m suggesting the world has changed since the pledges were made and I accept you have only said lying which is what I think is unfair especially when comparing him to JohnsonI don't know what his motivations are, I haven't said he's made agreements with the right wing media.
I've just pointed out he's reneged on several things he had previously committed to, thats a fact, though some people disagree with me referring to them as lies.
And no one offered a logical explanation as to why he's rolled back on some of his previous commitments.
Affordability?I don't know what his motivations are, I haven't said he's made agreements with the right wing media.
I've just pointed out he's reneged on several things he had previously committed to, thats a fact, though some people disagree with me referring to them as lies.
And no one offered a logical explanation as to why he's rolled back on some of his previous commitments.
I find it hard to understand how we desperately need a Labour government yet now we look like getting a Labour government next we have hardened Labour voters that don't want the present Labour leader to become PM. It seems they would prefer someone who would let the Tories back in.
An easy question for those who don't want Starmer as PM. When was the last time a hard left.....or even leaning towards it got voted in?
So you agree we need a Labour government much more than any other party yet you also say we don't.We don't desperately need a Labour government.
We desperately need a government who can sort out the absolute shambles this country has become.
Now, yes, it's far more likely that such a government would be a Labour government, but I honestly have no faith in Starmer.
Affordability?
The Tories have crashed the economy. We are in a totally different place than just a couple of years ago. If Labour keeps up with what is now not affordable the Tories will get back in. Would you prefer that?
Because he’s renaged on pledges or more?We don't desperately need a Labour government.
We desperately need a government who can sort out the absolute shambles this country has become.
Now, yes, it's far more likely that such a government would be a Labour government, but I honestly have no faith in Starmer.
So you agree we need a Labour government much more than any other party yet you also say we don't.
So who would you prefer to Starmer?
Maybe it’s Andy MurrayNo, I said we need a government to sort the country out and I acknowledge Its more likely to be a Labour government.
Who other than Starmer? I honestly don't know.
France has a massive advantage of already owning much of energy supply/generating.Affordability doesn't come into it with the railways though.
And can we afford to carry on with the railways as they are at the moment?
Totally unreliable and hugely expensive.
Yes, renationalising energy could be expensive, but this is my point, we need to be radical.
Renationalising in France hasn't been a walking the park but they're still going ahead with buying up the rest of EDF because the current situation has showed them the necessity of it.
What will happen here is Labour will introduce awinffalltax, they'll knock a bit of our bills, the energy companies will still make eye-watering profit and we'll still be paying more for our energy than any of our European neighbours and this approach will be rinse and repeat across every sector.
France has a massive advantage of already owning much of energy supply/generating.
The railways also need change but ot would cost too much to do in one go. And how much extra would it cost to break all the contracts?
Which is my point.No, I said we need a government to sort the country out and I acknowledge Its more likely to be a Labour government.
Who other than Starmer? I honestly don't know.
Which is what I have been saying. Yet most on here just seem to always want to disagree with everything I say even when they agree with meToo much to do in one go, agreed. But so many franchises are failing that it wouldn't take long to bring them under government control.
Trans pennine are just about finished and avanti are on thin ice
To be honest, the debate isn't about the point you made, it's about Starmer and his rolling back on pledges.Which is what I have been saying. Yet most on here just seem to always want to disagree with everything I say even when they agree with me
Not ok but understandable I thinkTo be honest, the debate isn't about the point you made, it's about Starmer and his rolling back on pledges.
If people are OK to let that slide that's fine but it's not something I'm happy with.
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