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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,146
skybluetony176 said:
I agree with that but Boris levels of lying? He’d have to have been thoroughly dishonest in all aspects of his life before being a politician to reach those levels and there’s no evidence of that.

He’s a politician and they all have an uncomfortable relationship with being dishonest. Corbyn pretended he was a remainer when suited and pretended he was dealing with antisemitism for instance but he was no where near Boris levels of lying and neither is Starmer. He could well prove to be in time but at this moment in time he’s not even in the ballpark compared to Boris.
Click to expand...

He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.
 
Reactions: duffer
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,147
clint van damme said:
He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.
Click to expand...

As you say that is policitics, particularly for party leaders.

But Johnson will break the law and stand up in Parliament and lie about it. That's a whole other level from any of Starmer's untruths.
 
Reactions: Bertola, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sky Blue Pete

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,148
clint van damme said:
He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.
Click to expand...
He’s not lying at the dispatch box though. Changing policy and breaking promises sure, he’s done that. But Boris stood up at PMQ’s week after week telling bare faced lies on everything from his personal behaviour to building new hospitals to the vaccine rollout. Fair enough Starmer isn’t yet in that position but I can’t ever see him reaching Boris levels. No doubt he will on occasions should he be PM but Boris made it a full time occupation, that was literally all he did.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,149
clint van damme said:
He's thoroughly dishonest, I'm talking Johnson levels of dishonesty.
And he'll prove to be just as corrupt.
Bookmark mark this for 3 or 4 years into his first term and I'll happily admit to talking bollocks if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Wow
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,150
clint van damme said:
Google it, there's loads.
Click to expand...

Source: trust me bro
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,151
PVA said:
As you say that is policitics, particularly for party leaders.

But Johnson will break the law and stand up in Parliament and lie about it. That's a whole other level from any of Starmer's untruths.
Click to expand...

He's not had the opportunity yet, let's see what happens.
For the record, I hope I'm wrong, this country is badly broken and needs fixing after over a decade of austerity and wealth transfer, I just dont think Starmer is the man to do it.

Its so badly broken I don't think a shift to the centre will affect enough change either.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,152
Sick Boy said:
I’m not really a fan of Starmer but he’s no way comparable to De Pfeffel.
Click to expand...

He’s more comparable to Cameron in that he wants the top job but has zero vision or a belief. He’s someone who gets a script and reads it

Once he gets the job he won’t like the scrutiny and has paper thin skin

Like Johnson he will say whatever he needs to say to get to power
 
Reactions: chiefdave

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,153
shmmeee said:
Source: trust me bro
Click to expand...

You dont think Johnson is dishonest?
You've surprised me.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,154
Astute said:
For me a big point is not to give the gutter press ammunition.

For too many years we have been giving an endless supply of opportunities to attack. These days it is all about pulling the Tories apart. Just keep it as it is and come out with a decent way of taking the UK forward. We need a manifesto which puts more money in the pockets of those who need it. Get rid of the so called management and replace them with doctors, nurses, teachers and so on. Pay for our own power generating facilities instead of letting foreign investment rip us off. This would then give more money to correct what is wrong. Have a major home building program instead of paying billions each year to private landlords. Stop the right to buy. Take control of the rail companies as each contract comes to an end. There is a very long list of what the British public would vote for.
Click to expand...
I reckon I could vote for someone running on this platform. Know anyone?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,155
shmmeee said:
Do you even know what insult you’re trying to make here?

Few too many sherries tonight I fear G.
Click to expand...

not at all I just find your stance somewhat amusing
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,156
There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Deleted member 9744

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,157
Ian1779 said:
I reckon I could vote for someone running on this platform. Know anyone?
Click to expand...

it sounds like he wants Corbyn to make a comeback
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,158
skybluetony176 said:
There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.
Click to expand...
They could try that - but it would be a much easier attack line to say ‘You lied your way to the Labour leadership, who’s to say you wouldn’t do it again if PM’
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,159
skybluetony176 said:
There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.
Click to expand...

Trust me, and I realise you're probably not referring to me, but my opinions on Starmer aren't cultivated by the right wing press!
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,160
Ian1779 said:
They could try that - but it would be a much easier attack line to say ‘You lied your way to the Labour leadership, who’s to say you wouldn’t do it again if PM’
Click to expand...
There is something to that, I’ll certainly acknowledge that. I still can’t see him ever lying on the scale of Boris though or anywhere near. Boris does it in every aspect of his life, everyone “exaggerates” at a job interview.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,161
clint van damme said:
You dont think Johnson is dishonest?
You've surprised me.
Click to expand...

I do, I think comparing him to Starmer is freaking barmy. Not even playing the same sport let alone in the same league.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sky Blue Pete and Deleted member 5849

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,162
skybluetony176 said:
There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.
Click to expand...
The problem is that you spend your time majoring on Tory lies and broken promises you need to not have too many skeletons in your own closet.
Having said that, the media will choose whether or not they care about those skeletons based on the extent to which they believe Starmer is a threat to the neoliberal status quo. They don't believe he is a threat so they ignore the skeletons.
 
Reactions: duffer
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,163
clint van damme said:
He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.
Click to expand...
Mate you are normally a sensible poster but this is a bit unhinged.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Deleted member 5849

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,164
Deleted member 9744 said:
Mate you are normally a sensible poster but this is a bit unhinged.
Click to expand...

You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,165
Grendel said:
He’s more comparable to Cameron in that he wants the top job but has zero vision or a belief. He’s someone who gets a script and reads it

Once he gets the job he won’t like the scrutiny and has paper thin skin

Like Johnson he will say whatever he needs to say to get to power
Click to expand...
Probably a fair comment but that's been the case for successive PMs/leaders of the opposition for quite a while now - apart from Corbyn but even then he adjusted his views to cling on to power.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,166
clint van damme said:
You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.
Click to expand...
Seriously, Johnson levels of dishonesty?
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,167
clint van damme said:
You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.
Click to expand...
I only look at this thread occasionally but you've ruffled some feathers this morning. Love to see it.
Also getting all defensive over a politician is weird, the Starmer lads are starting to sound a bit like the Corbyn cultists, ironically.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,168
Deleted member 9744 said:
Seriously, Johnson levels of dishonesty?
Click to expand...

Same traits. And the higher he goes the worse it will get.
I'll happily come on here and admit I'm wrong if it doesn't.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,169
clint van damme said:
You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.
Click to expand...

You think changing a policy platform openly is comparable to what Johnson has done? Really?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,170
TomRad85 said:
I only look at this thread occasionally but you've ruffled some feathers this morning. Love to see it.
Also getting all defensive over a politician is weird, the Starmer lads are starting to sound a bit like the Corbyn cultists, ironically.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The 'first to mention corbyn when debating starmer' stakes were won by outsider TomRad 85 after a disappointing showing from odds on favourite Shmmeee
 
Reactions: chiefdave and Sick Boy

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,171
shmmeee said:
You think changing a policy platform openly is comparable to what Johnson has done? Really?
Click to expand...

Why would you change on, for example, renationalising the railways?
Have they got better or have they got considerably worse?
The dishonesty was saying he was going to do it in the first place.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,172
TomRad85 said:
I only look at this thread occasionally but you've ruffled some feathers this morning. Love to see it.
Also getting all defensive over a politician is weird, the Starmer lads are starting to sound a bit like the Corbyn cultists, ironically.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I am no fan of Starmer. I am just challenging the view that he is as dishonest as Johnson and have seen no evidence at all yet.
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,173
clint van damme said:
The 'first to mention corbyn when debating starmer' stakes were won by outsider TomRad 85 after a disappointing showing from odds on favourite Shmmeee
Click to expand...
I'm not debating Starmer, I couldn't give a monkeys, he'll probably win and you're right he also reminds me of Cameron. Suits me.

Edit. I think Grendel compared him to Cameron rather than you. Still accurate though.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,174
Deleted member 9744 said:
I am no fan of Starmer. I am just challenging the view that he is as dishonest as Johnson and have seen no evidence at all yet.
Click to expand...
I think Clint is suggesting the higher they get the more dishonest they get. Judge him when he's in the big boy job I suppose.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,175
TomRad85 said:
I think Clint is suggesting the higher they get the more dishonest they get. Judge him when he's in the big boy job I suppose.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
This, 'they're all as bad as each other' narrative is dangerous. It's simply not true. May and Cameron were terrible but nothing compared to what has followed them.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Deleted member 5849

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,176
TomRad85 said:
I'm not debating Starmer, I couldn't give a monkeys, he'll probably win and you're right he also reminds me of Cameron. Suits me.

Edit. I think Grendel compared him to Cameron rather than you. Still accurate though.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Stewards enquiry!
 
Reactions: TomRad85
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,177
TomRad85 said:
I think Clint is suggesting the higher they get the more dishonest they get.
Click to expand...

Yeah and that's a fair comment.

Doesn't mean they all lie like Johnson does when they get to the top though. He's a whole other level.
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,178
Deleted member 9744 said:
This, 'they're all as bad as each other' narrative is dangerous. It's simply not true. May and Cameron were terrible but nothing compared to what has followed them.
Click to expand...
I didn't mind Cameron too much but if a Labour leader ultimately ended up being just like Cameron, well that's pretty dishonest from a left wing view point.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,179
PVA said:
Yeah and that's a fair comment.

Doesn't mean they all lie like Johnson does when they get to the top though. He's a whole other level.
Click to expand...

He’s not - he’s saying his history of lies is similar to that of Johnson to achieve power

He’s not even referring i don’t think to his interesting behaviour when in charge of the CPS
 
Reactions: clint van damme

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2023
  • #26,180
Make no mistake though, Starmer is in the right place at the right time, he'll win because the tories have completely and utterly shit the bed. No one is inspired by him, he's just there. Even Corbyn (siren) would have stood half a chance next time around.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: chiefdave
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