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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,516
Should get in trouble for not using his booster seat too
 
Reactions: Bertola, Frostie, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and 2 others
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,517
CCFCSteve said:
You are kidding ? The nhs wouldn’t have been able to oversee all of that (sites etc) in the middle of the pandemic ?! The actually testing capacity was all NHS/PHE and was ramped up from scratch. From memory they refused to let private institutions/Unis get involved early on when we had literally no capacity because they wanted to keep it all centralised. A big mistake

PHE/NHS procurement left us massively underprepared in terms of PPE. Where was the plan B if imports from China were cut off ? It was a shitshow. There were 100% some dodgy decisions on VIP lane contracts but by in large PPE decisions would’ve been taken by PHE/NHS

Ps I actually have sympathy for all involved during that time as nobody had seen anything like this but to just point blame at ministers/government is shortsighted
Click to expand...
I have no sympathy for them. Although they might not have seen anything like this before, they will have received plenty of warning that a pandemic was a real possibility and their lack of planning for one was the biggest failure.

I believe there was a report in 2016 saying that the Government needed a contingency plan for exactly this type of event, but they failed to take heed of that.

I guess there are few votes at the time in making sensible contingency plans but this is where the Government failed us the most. Yes, Johnson 's Government did not respond well to the pandemic but if they had a plan it would have been much easier.

Places like South Korea that did have a plan did much better, both in terms of deaths and in opening up their economies and society.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,518
fernandopartridge said:
There is no way the existing NHS labs had the capacity to test at that scale, I work with people seconded to UKHSA at the time Tony. I'm in agreement that the Tories use any opportunity to funnel money to their mates but I don't believe it to be the case to any great extent here.
Click to expand...
Okay. I never said they could. I’m suggesting that if they funnelled the money to the NHS they have the expertise and contacts to have contracted out the testing as and when required. Instead they funnelled to Dido Harding, a person with no expertise in the field to do it. I think I read somewhere that NHS labs were under utilised during the pandemic for testing and the testing they did do was far more economic and efficient than outsourced testing. We didn’t have to spend so much money on test element and the trace element was just a pointless waste of money as it never worked. That was a failed political strategy by the Tories.

Same with PPE, give the money to the experts in the NHS. Again I was reading that NHS suppliers with available stocks were sending it abroad while the government was giving millions to pub landlords, Michelle Mone etc for unusable crap. We had it in the country and the government stopped the NHS from buying it. Another political choice.
 
Last edited: Jan 20, 2023

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,519
CCFCSteve said:
You are kidding ? The nhs wouldn’t have been able to oversee all of that (sites etc) in the middle of the pandemic ?! The actually testing capacity was all NHS/PHE and was ramped up from scratch. From memory they refused to let private institutions/Unis get involved early on when we had literally no capacity because they wanted to keep it all centralised. A big mistake

PHE/NHS procurement left us massively underprepared in terms of PPE. Where was the plan B if imports from China were cut off ? It was a shitshow. There were 100% some dodgy decisions on VIP lane contracts but by in large PPE decisions would’ve been taken by PHE/NHS

Ps I actually have sympathy for all involved during that time as nobody had seen anything like this but to just point blame at ministers/government is shortsighted
Click to expand...
You either have a short memory or just wasn’t paying attention at the time. Just one story of many from that period to help jog your memory.

Exclusive: Millions of pieces of PPE being shipped from Britain to Europe despite NHS shortages

Last week five million surgical masks and more than a million respirators were packed on to EU-registered lorries by one UK wholesaler
www.telegraph.co.uk

And it wasn’t the NHS test and trace system. The test and trace system the government used they chose to set up from scratch in May 2020. They called it NHS track and trace to legitimise it. The actual NHS test and trace system was already in place and was under utilised. That money would have gone a lot farther in the NHS’s hands ramping up their own test and trace including outsourcing, employing temporary staff etc when necessary than it ever would have in Dido Hardings hands in a separate test and trace system starting from scratch after the horse had already bolted.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,520
Deleted member 9744 said:
I have no sympathy for them. Although they might not have seen anything like this before, they will have received plenty of warning that a pandemic was a real possibility and their lack of planning for one was the biggest failure.

I believe there was a report in 2016 saying that the Government needed a contingency plan for exactly this type of event, but they failed to take heed of that.

I guess there are few votes at the time in making sensible contingency plans but this is where the Government failed us the most. Yes, Johnson 's Government did not respond well to the pandemic but if they had a plan it would have been much easier.

Places like South Korea that did have a plan did much better, both in terms of deaths and in opening up their economies and society.
Click to expand...

I was talking about having sympathy for people at PHE and NHS but you are right poor all round
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,521
skybluetony176 said:
You either have a short memory or just wasn’t paying attention at the time. Just one story of many from that period to help jog your memory.

Exclusive: Millions of pieces of PPE being shipped from Britain to Europe despite NHS shortages

Last week five million surgical masks and more than a million respirators were packed on to EU-registered lorries by one UK wholesaler
www.telegraph.co.uk

And it wasn’t the NHS test and trace system. The test and trace system the government used they chose to set up from scratch in May 2020. They called it NHS track and trace to legitimise it. The actual NHS test and trace system was already in place and was under utilised. That money would have gone a lot farther in the NHS’s hands ramping up their own test and trace including outsourcing, employing temporary staff etc when necessary than it ever would have in Dido Hardings hands in a separate test and trace system starting from scratch after the horse had already bolted.
Click to expand...

The testing capacity was NHS/PHE. The sites operated externally. I’ve also said about the dodgy contracts but the procurement shitshow was not all on the government. Ministers don’t run public services they oversee them
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,522
CCFCSteve said:
You are kidding ? The nhs wouldn’t have been able to oversee all of that (sites etc) in the middle of the pandemic ?! The actually testing capacity was all NHS/PHE and was ramped up from scratch. From memory they refused to let private institutions/Unis get involved early on when we had literally no capacity because they wanted to keep it all centralised. A big mistake

PHE/NHS procurement left us massively underprepared in terms of PPE. Where was the plan B if imports from China were cut off ? It was a shitshow. There were 100% some dodgy decisions on VIP lane contracts but by in large PPE decisions would’ve been taken by PHE/NHS

Ps I actually have sympathy for all involved during that time as nobody had seen anything like this but to just point blame at ministers/government is shortsighted
Click to expand...
A decade of underfunding and mismanagement Steve, and a Prime Minister who was about the last person you would want leading the government during a once in a century pandemic. Don't think either of those helped.
 
Reactions: torchomatic and Sky Blue Pete
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,523
Brighton Sky Blue said:
A decade of underfunding and mismanagement Steve, and a Prime Minister who was about the last person you would want leading the government during a once in a century pandemic. Don't think either of those helped.
Click to expand...

This is the key one really isn’t it.

I can’t remember who said it, but he was described as a ‘totally unserious man leading us through the most serious time’

We all know he always wanted to be PM and he was fully expecting to have a good old jolly and ride on the coattails of getting Brexit done. Actually having to do some serious leadership was not on his radar and it showed.

Let’s not forget he literally said he was happy for the bodies to pile up.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,524
PVA said:
This is the key one really isn’t it.

I can’t remember who said it, but he was described as a ‘totally unserious man leading us through the most serious time’

We all know he always wanted to be PM and he was fully expecting to have a good old jolly and ride on the coattails of getting Brexit done. Actually having to do some serious leadership was not on his radar and it showed.

Let’s not forget he literally said he was happy for the bodies to pile up.
Click to expand...
I think you would have taken any other PM from WW2 onwards instead of him. Someone renowned for laziness and dishonesty in charge at a time like that-it will have been where the corruption problems started. You can just imagine him sat there in Number 10 going:

 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,525
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,526
Brighton Sky Blue said:
A decade of underfunding and mismanagement Steve, and a Prime Minister who was about the last person you would want leading the government during a once in a century pandemic. Don't think either of those helped.
Click to expand...

Cant disagree. Johnson with Hancock at health secretary was not the ideal double act for the times

Another couple of years we’d have been fine though….

 
Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,527
QinetiQ have been winning government contracts for ages TBF.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,528
shmmeee said:
QinetiQ have been winning government contracts for ages TBF.
Click to expand...

I don't that's their first donation though.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,529
CCFCSteve said:
The testing capacity was NHS/PHE. The sites operated externally. I’ve also said about the dodgy contracts but the procurement shitshow was not all on the government. Ministers don’t run public services they oversee them
Click to expand...
It was not and never was part of the NHS, you’re right that it was PHE. But that’s not the same thing especially as PHE contracted it out to SERCO.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,530
skybluetony176 said:
It was not and never was part of the NHS, you’re right that it was PHE. But that’s not the same thing especially as PHE contracted it out to SERCO.
Click to expand...
It was a combo of both NHS England » NHS to ramp up coronavirus testing labs

It’s irrelevant anyway, my point was that there were failures across the board not just at government level
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,531
clint van damme said:
I don't that's their first donation though.
Click to expand...

I mean they’re also good at what they do. TBH I’d ban all donations and fund parties based on vote share/seats from the public purse.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,532
CCFCSteve said:
It was a combo of both NHS England » NHS to ramp up coronavirus testing labs

It’s irrelevant anyway, my point was that there were failures across the board not just at government level
Click to expand...
Not from the £37B. Which is the point. The £37B went to Dido Harding who contracted it out to SERCO. That was May 2020 when DH was appointed by the government, your link is from 2months prior to that.

It does say interestingly that the NHS upped it’s own testing capacity by 500%, which sort of proves my point that given the funding DH got the NHS was capable of doing it with a combination of their own Laboratory’s and outsourced directly by the NHS instead of lining the pockets of a middle man like SERCO.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,533
skybluetony176 said:
Not from the £37B. Which is the point. The £37B went to Dido Harding who contracted it out to SERCO. That was May 2020 when DH was appointed by the government, your link is from 2months prior to that.

It does say interestingly that the NHS upped it’s own testing capacity by 500%, which sort of proves my point that given the funding DH got the NHS was capable of doing it with a combination of their own Laboratory’s and outsourced directly by the NHS instead of lining the pockets of a middle man like SERCO.
Click to expand...

Most of the test and trace budget was spent on testing… setting up and running of the labs

£37 billion was the two-year budget for NHS Test and Trace, not how much was spent – Full Fact

Posts questioning where the £37 billion allocated to Test and Trace was spent have been shared hundreds of times on social media.
fullfact.org

Serco oversaw the test sites. They apparently made 60m off 500m revenue for covid contracts. 60m is a lot but a drop in the ocean overall

The nhs had better things to do than run various sites collecting testing kits. The ‘wasted 37bn’ is just a nonsense number thrown around
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,534

Nadhim Zahawi ‘agreed on penalty’ to settle tax bill worth millions

Claim over sum imposed by HMRC likely to raise further questions for Conservative party chair
www.theguardian.com

This story is going to keep running and escalating. They’re going to drip it out. Print something, give him enough time to come up with an “explanation” and then report something else that contradicts his explanation. He’s already changed his story more than once in the last year. Old stories also resurfacing regarding him and Jeffry Archer, something to do with forged signatures, a different Gibraltar registered investment firm he’s linked to, loans from that company to buy an equestrian centre.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,535
CCFCSteve said:
Most of the test and trace budget was spent on testing… setting up and running of the labs

£37 billion was the two-year budget for NHS Test and Trace, not how much was spent – Full Fact

Posts questioning where the £37 billion allocated to Test and Trace was spent have been shared hundreds of times on social media.
fullfact.org

Serco oversaw the test sites. They apparently made 60m off 500m revenue for covid contracts. 60m is a lot but a drop in the ocean overall

The nhs had better things to do than run various sites collecting testing kits. The ‘wasted 37bn’ is just a nonsense number thrown around
Click to expand...
Not really when it was never ran to anywhere near full capacity and never hit targets. Which again is the point. Wastage to the private sector that never achieved. We could have literally spent half of what we did on testing and achieved the same results.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,536
skybluetony176 said:

Nadhim Zahawi ‘agreed on penalty’ to settle tax bill worth millions

Claim over sum imposed by HMRC likely to raise further questions for Conservative party chair
www.theguardian.com

This story is going to keep running and escalating. They’re going to drip it out. Print something, give him enough time to come up with an “explanation” and then report something else that contradicts his explanation. He’s already changed his story more than once in the last year. Old stories also resurfacing regarding him and Jeffry Archer, something to do with forged signatures, a different Gibraltar registered investment firm he’s linked to, loans from that company to buy an equestrian centre.
Click to expand...
Absolute lying crook
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,537
Sky Blue Pete said:
Absolute lying crook
Click to expand...
Also chancellor of the bloody exvequer!!!!

I’ve had prrsonal cases where people have been dismissed for errors on tax credit applications ffs
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,538
FPN for Rishi

He's a bit rubbish at this PM lark isn't he?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,539
PVA said:
FPN for Rishi

He's a bit rubbish at this PM lark isn't he?
Click to expand...
Allegedly some Tories are rumbling he’s had 2 FPN in a year and has to go.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,540
skybluetony176 said:
Allegedly some Tories are rumbling he’s had 2 FPN in a year and has to go.
Click to expand...

Any excuse to get Johnson back
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,541
Didn't he say when he became PM that he would lead a Government of integrity. Then he's the first PM to get two fixed penalty notices.

However, compared to Zahawi's tax affairs this seems rather superficial.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,542
Deleted member 9744 said:
Didn't he say when he became PM that he would lead a Government of integrity. Then he's the first PM to get two fixed penalty notices.

However, compared to Zahawi's tax affairs this seems rather superficial.
Click to expand...
Exactly this - they are happy with Sunak getting this to deflect from Zahawi.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 20, 2023
  • #25,543
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime

Rishi Sunak's failure to wear seat belt to be investigated

The prime minister has apologised for removing his seat belt while filming a clip for social media.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
That video is fucking awful - he comes across worse than Johnson ffs.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2023
  • #25,544
The Independent published a timeline now of their involvement. Hard to see how he can remain an MP let alone a cabinet member. Subject of a Serious Fraud Office investigation, National Crime Agency investigation and an HMRC investigation. Pretty clear he tried to play it out in the hope of avoiding paying the tax only paying it when he ran out of options and then making out it was normal and up to date. As someone pointed out, if your taxes are up to date you don’t pay a penalty and interests.

Revealed: Nadhim Zahawi’s legal threat to The Independent to stop tax revelations

Exclusive: Tory chairman warned he would ‘one hundred per cent take legal action’ if dispute over tax affairs revealed
www.independent.co.uk
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2023
  • #25,545
Zawahi is an absolute snake.

Made plenty of fuss about catching tax evaders during his stint as chancellor.

No idea how he's still in a job.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2023
  • #25,546
skybluetony176 said:
The Independent published a timeline now of their involvement. Hard to see how he can remain an MP let alone a cabinet member. Subject of a Serious Fraud Office investigation, National Crime Agency investigation and an HMRC investigation. Pretty clear he tried to play it out in the hope of avoiding paying the tax only paying it when he ran out of options and then making out it was normal and up to date. As someone pointed out, if your taxes are up to date you don’t pay a penalty and interests.

Revealed: Nadhim Zahawi’s legal threat to The Independent to stop tax revelations

Exclusive: Tory chairman warned he would ‘one hundred per cent take legal action’ if dispute over tax affairs revealed
www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...
He’s not helped himself
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2023
  • #25,547
PVA said:
Zawahi is an absolute snake.

Made plenty of fuss about catching tax evaders during his stint as chancellor.

No idea how he's still in a job.
Click to expand...
He’ll ride it out
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2023
  • #25,548
PVA said:
No idea how he's still in a job.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I'm not the least bit surprised.
 
Reactions: PVA
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jan 21, 2023
  • #25,549

Sajid Javid calls for patients to pay for GP and A&E visits

Radical reforms needed to tackle waiting times, says former health secretary
www.theguardian.com
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2023
  • #25,550
Deleted member 5849 said:

Sajid Javid calls for patients to pay for GP and A&E visits

Radical reforms needed to tackle waiting times, says former health secretary
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
He’s wrong
 
Reactions: stupot07 and Sky_Blue_Dreamer
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