Do you want to discuss boring politics? (30 Viewers)

shmmeee · Nov 17, 2022

duffer said:
Uh oh. Just as we were getting along so well.

I work in data too, and GDPR is a real pain in the arse but I'm 100% in favour of it. The key is the ability the opt-out of your personal data being processed, which in some cases is very much the smart thing to do.

There's nothing more personal I can think of than your medical data, and sending it to the States (which is somewhat lax on data controls) is a really poor idea. Sending it to Palantir, given their links to the Police and security services (and the Republicans and Trump for good measure), even less so.

If the data was genuinely anonymised that would be one thing, but by the look of it this is pseudo-anonymisation, which isn't that hard to unravel if you've got the time and a few different sources available. It's right to kick up about it, imho.

UK hospital patient data set to enter Palantir system

'You'll be hearing from us,' say privacy campaigners who previously forced the government to back down

www.theregister.com

It’ll be processed according to the law though. Just because someone right wing is involved doesn’t automatically make it bad. The Reg loves a scare story, but that article is light in detail and heavy on buts and maybes.

The benefit for general health and NHS efficiency far outweighs the risk of you getting targeted ads for piles cream or whatever.

By all means scrutinise the data being sent, and the storage and processing. But most of this is scare stories with little detail.

I’m a data scientist at heart and TBH most data isn’t used for scary things, just a bunch of geeks trying to solve cool problems. If they want to profile you I know a guy who can infer pretty much everything about you including predictives from your FB profile. That horse has well and truly bolted.

wingy · Nov 17, 2022

shmmeee said:
It’ll be processed according to the law though. Just because someone right wing is involved doesn’t automatically make it bad. The Reg loves a scare story, but that article is light in detail and heavy on buts and maybes.

The benefit for general health and NHS efficiency far outweighs the risk of you getting targeted ads for piles cream or whatever.

By all means scrutinise the data being sent, and the storage and processing. But most of this is scare stories with little detail.

I’m a data scientist at heart and TBH most data isn’t used for scary things, just a bunch of geeks trying to solve cool problems. If they want to profile you I know a guy who can infer pretty much everything about you including predictives from your FB profile. That horse has well and truly bolted.

I'd have to argue this from personal experience as i think it already exists.
And wasn't THERE a scandal within the last five years of someone involved?

shmmeee · Nov 17, 2022

wingy said:
I'd have to argue this from personal experience as i think it already exists.
And wasn't THERE a scandal within the last five years of someone involved?

I used to be super anti data sharing, left the Labour Party under Blair because I disagreed with ID cards.

Then the Snowden stuff came out, and I saw what is possible with public data anyway and thought “why are we denying ourselves all this progress to try and stop something that’s happening anyway and will never be put back”. Ultimately most people aren’t interesting enough for big brother and those that are there’s other ways to get what’s needed. So let’s have efficient healthcare and government at least.

JAM See · Nov 18, 2022

duffer said:
Uh oh. Just as we were getting along so well.

I work in data too, and GDPR is a real pain in the arse but I'm 100% in favour of it. The key is the ability the opt-out of your personal data being processed, which in some cases is very much the smart thing to do.

There's nothing more personal I can think of than your medical data, and sending it to the States (which is somewhat lax on data controls) is a really poor idea. Sending it to Palantir, given their links to the Police and security services (and the Republicans and Trump for good measure), even less so.

If the data was genuinely anonymised that would be one thing, but by the look of it this is pseudo-anonymisation, which isn't that hard to unravel if you've got the time and a few different sources available. It's right to kick up about it, imho.

UK hospital patient data set to enter Palantir system

'You'll be hearing from us,' say privacy campaigners who previously forced the government to back down

www.theregister.com

shmmeee said:
I used to be super anti data sharing, left the Labour Party under Blair because I disagreed with ID cards.

Then the Snowden stuff came out, and I saw what is possible with public data anyway and thought “why are we denying ourselves all this progress to try and stop something that’s happening anyway and will never be put back”. Ultimately most people aren’t interesting enough for big brother and those that are there’s other ways to get what’s needed. So let’s have efficient healthcare and government at least.

Sounds like you're (almost) in agreement with each other.

My background is more applied statistics that just raw data.

That's the main issue, not data collection itself but how you interpret them

It's obvious now that we knew decades ago, as a society, that smoking was bad. However, the data could be 'twisted'.

Same thing is happening with climate change.

The data are out there and aren't going away. The important thing is how they are used.

fernandopartridge · Nov 18, 2022

I will not be voting for this

fernandopartridge · Nov 18, 2022

Read in conjunction with

CCFCSteve · Nov 18, 2022

From outline commentary about it, as a stand-alone budget, probably as good as could be hoped and at least not totally tone deaf like some in recent years. Holding back some negative things for a couple of years when growth might improve is wise, too much now and we’re double fucked

Increased spending in a couple of key areas (NHS and education). Proper longer term plan/strategy around nhs staffing. Higher burden on richer people with change in bands and changes to CGT. Looks like punitive tax rise around 50k though which isn’t good, not sure 12p on fuel duty’s going to work either. press on the right saying too much tax rises, press on left saying not enough so probably balanced ish.

It feels like initially it was aimed at calming the markets so wouldn’t be surprised if fuel duty rise was quietly dropped next year if oil remains high…they might be banking on drop due to global recession hitting demand and therefore prices

Not the type of budget you want to produce to stay in power though. Tories are done at next election

*devil is always in the detail as Osborne and Brown proved !

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
I will not be voting for this

That fiscal rule is looser than the one proposed by McDonnell under Corbyn…

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

Education funding back where it was when they took over. Getting a little tired of slapping the Tories on the back for undoing their own mistakes TBH.

CCFCSteve · Nov 18, 2022

shmmeee said:
Education funding back where it was when they took over. Getting a little tired of slapping the Tories on the back for undoing their own mistakes TBH.

Not sure it’s back slapping. Just a positive out of a budget that was always going to be largely negative.

Anyway, I only popped on as the left on left bickering was unnerving me

chiefdave · Nov 18, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Increased spending in a couple of key areas (NHS and education). Proper longer term plan/strategy around nhs staffing.

The problem with a lot of these increases is, at best, they're back to the levels they were when the Conservatives came into power. If there hadn't been so many cuts in the 'good' years we wouldn't be in such a mess now and be better placed to withstand the current economic situation.

And of course always the issue of where that money will go, will it reach where its needed or go on consultants and agency staff to plug gaps, same with recruitment targets, we keep hearing recruitment targets but they're never close to being met.

As with any rubbish Fisher comes out with regarding a new stadium I think it's a case of wait and see what happens rather than start giving congratulations on what has been promised.

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Not sure it’s back slapping. Just a positive out of a budget that was always going to be largely negative.

Anyway, I only popped on as the left on left bickering was unnerving me

Not aimed at you, but it’s police numbers all over again. Should never have been cut and now wheeled out as a positive.

And if left on left bickering isn’t your thing then maybe politics isn’t for you

I’ve made my feelings clear, he’s still subscribing to the outdated ideological “wealth creator” nonsense even when the chips are down. No serious attempt to tax wealth at any level, just hit the working man for a crisis caused in Tufton street. And cutting electric cars off at the knees for very little benefit. While leaving all the tough decisions for after they’ve been booted out.

CCFCSteve · Nov 18, 2022

chiefdave said:
The problem with a lot of these increases is, at best, they're back to the levels they were when the Conservatives came into power. If there hadn't been so many cuts in the 'good' years we wouldn't be in such a mess now and be better placed to withstand the current economic situation.

And of course always the issue of where that money will go, will it reach where its needed or go on consultants and agency staff to plug gaps, same with recruitment targets, we keep hearing recruitment targets but they're never close to being met.

As with any rubbish Fisher comes out with regarding a new stadium I think it's a case of wait and see what happens rather than start giving congratulations on what has been promised.

Yeah, agreed. I did say as a stand-alone budget though. As you say, let’s see what happens with the cash

CCFCSteve · Nov 18, 2022

shmmeee said:
Not aimed at you, but it’s police numbers all over again. Should never have been cut and now wheeled out as a positive.

And if left on left bickering isn’t your thing then maybe politics isn’t for you

I’ve made my feelings clear, he’s still subscribing to the outdated ideological “wealth creator” nonsense even when the chips are down. No serious attempt to tax wealth at any level, just hit the working man for a crisis caused in Tufton street. And cutting electric cars off at the knees for very little benefit. While leaving all the tough decisions for after they’ve been booted out.

Oh, I enjoy the bickering really, gives me a breather

clint van damme · Nov 18, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
I will not be voting for this

Jesus christ! What's the point of having an opposition.
Whoo me with your yoga mat Ed!

fernandopartridge · Nov 18, 2022

Perpetuating the blackhole myth, genuinely not a hairs breadth between Labour and the Tories materially. I mean obviously how they 'fill' the alleged 'blackhole' could be different but I wouldn't bank on it, Mr "we're intensely relaxed with people being filthy rich" is back pulling the strings with those two droids who share a voice being the public face of it.

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
Perpetuating the blackhole myth, genuinely not a hairs breadth between Labour and the Tories materially. I mean obviously how they 'fill' the alleged 'blackhole' could be different but I wouldn't bank on it, Mr "we're intensely relaxed with people being filthy rich" is back pulling the strings with those two droids who share a voice being the public face of it.

Opposition is not the place to upturn the economic consensus. Especially post Truss. The next election will be about economic “competence” whether we like it or not.

Also everyone leaves off the second half of that which is “as long as they pay their taxes”, I still don’t like it but it’s only fair to give the full quote.

As I said, Hunts fiscal rule is looser than McDonnell and Corbyn wanted. Balance day to day over 5 years and debt falling as a share of GDP was basically the Corbynite line for ages. It’s just now instead of “paying for” nice things, it’s “paying for” the mess the Tories made.

Also I just don’t think there’s the votes in the PLP for austerity or Tory lite or whatever. And I don’t think that’s Starmer either. He’s in election winning mode, and even then he’s promising a lot of good left wing things nationalised rail and energy, renter reforms, mental health.

Throw your vote away if you want, but I think it’s ridiculous hyperbole to claim a platform to the left of pretty much everyone since Blair bar 2019 Corbyn is beyond the pale or Tory lite.

clint van damme · Nov 18, 2022

shmmeee said:
Opposition is not the place to upturn the economic consensus. Especially post Truss. The next election will be about economic “competence” whether we like it or not.

Also everyone leaves off the second half of that which is “as long as they pay their taxes”, I still don’t like it but it’s only fair to give the full quote.

As I said, Hunts fiscal rule is looser than McDonnell and Corbyn wanted. Balance day to day over 5 years and debt falling as a share of GDP was basically the Corbynite line for ages. It’s just now instead of “paying for” nice things, it’s “paying for” the mess the Tories made.

Also I just don’t think there’s the votes in the PLP for austerity or Tory lite or whatever. And I don’t think that’s Starmer either. He’s in election winning mode, and even then he’s promising a lot of good left wing things nationalised rail and energy, renter reforms, mental health.

Throw your vote away if you want, but I think it’s ridiculous hyperbole to claim a platform to the left of pretty much everyone since Blair bar 2019 Corbyn is beyond the pale or Tory lite.

Heard arch centrist Alistair Campbell being interviewed a couple of weeks ago, he said time to leave the tory bashing to the rest of the shadow cabinet and start setting out his vision.
I don't think this is what even he meant.

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme said:
Heard arch centrist Alistair Campbell being interviewed a couple of weeks ago, he said time to leave the tory bashing to the rest of the shadow cabinet and start setting out his vision.
I don't think this is what even he meant.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the totality of questions out to Labour politicians regardless of whether they’re in or out of power is “how will you pay for it?” Seems sensible to have an answer.

Blair also promised to match Tory spending plans but you can’t claim things didn’t get better because of it. It’s just a hoop you have to jump through no matter how much you think every Labour politician should be giving interviewers a lecture on MMT.

clint van damme · Nov 18, 2022

shmmeee said:
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the totality of questions out to Labour politicians regardless of whether they’re in or out of power is “how will you pay for it?” Seems sensible to have an answer.

Blair also promised to match Tory spending plans but you can’t claim things didn’t get better because of it. It’s just a hoop you have to jump through no matter how much you think every Labour politician should be giving interviewers a lecture on MMT.

Well in that case might it be good to have a better answer than we'll do what the tories do.

Edit - I take it all back, go Keir

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme said:
Well in that case might it be good to have a better answer than we'll do what the tories do.

Edit - I take it all back, go Keir

What would that answer be that doesn’t involve “spend more”? Because that’s the biggest question floating voters have about Labour. We’re ahead on economic competence for the first time in forever, clearly the current tactic is working.

You and I are super left wing, but sadly the country is not made up entirely like people like you and I.

CCFCSteve · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme said:
Well in that case might it be good to have a better answer than we'll do what the tories do.

Edit - I take it all back, go Keir

No Houchen header in ‘87…..bring back Corbo

clint van damme · Nov 18, 2022

shmmeee said:
What would that answer be that doesn’t involve “spend more”? Because that’s the biggest question floating voters have about Labour. We’re ahead on economic competence for the first time in forever, clearly the current tactic is working.

You and I are super left wing, but sadly the country is not made up entirely like people like you and I.

I don't know what the answer is, I'm leaving that to people who are employed by the Labour Party, the supposed party of the working man, to figure out.
It's disappointing that this is their response.

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme said:
I don't know what the answer is, I'm leaving that to people who are employed by the Labour Party, the supposed party of the working man, to figure out.
It's disappointing that this is their response.

You’re disappointed as someone who is left wing. The polling shows this strategy is working and that’s literally all that matters until we have a Labour government.

fernandopartridge · Nov 18, 2022

shmmeee said:
Opposition is not the place to upturn the economic consensus. Especially post Truss. The next election will be about economic “competence” whether we like it or not.

Also everyone leaves off the second half of that which is “as long as they pay their taxes”, I still don’t like it but it’s only fair to give the full quote.

As I said, Hunts fiscal rule is looser than McDonnell and Corbyn wanted. Balance day to day over 5 years and debt falling as a share of GDP was basically the Corbynite line for ages. It’s just now instead of “paying for” nice things, it’s “paying for” the mess the Tories made.

Also I just don’t think there’s the votes in the PLP for austerity or Tory lite or whatever. And I don’t think that’s Starmer either. He’s in election winning mode, and even then he’s promising a lot of good left wing things nationalised rail and energy, renter reforms, mental health.

Throw your vote away if you want, but I think it’s ridiculous hyperbole to claim a platform to the left of pretty much everyone since Blair bar 2019 Corbyn is beyond the pale or Tory lite.

The economic consensus is not in favour of more austerity, how out of touch can you be?

clint van damme · Nov 18, 2022

⁸

shmmeee said:
You’re disappointed as someone who is left wing. The polling shows this strategy is working and that’s literally all that matters until we have a Labour government.

After a decade of austerity and the biggest drop in living standards round the corner I don't believe there isn't an appetite for change.

I don't buy this wait until he's elected bollocks myself, of course I could be wrong on that, time will tell.

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme said:
⁸

After a decade of austerity and the biggest drop in living standards round the corner I don't believe there isn't an appetite for change.

I don't buy this wait until he's elected bollocks myself, of course I could be wrong on that, time will tell.

Indeed it will. The sad fact is that voters seem to become more austere the worse things get. Start thinking about what else money is going on and why it’s not going on them, nationalism, anti-immigrant sentiment, etc all seem to rise when times are bad.

skybluetony176 · Nov 18, 2022

Anyway. The B word

Skybluefaz · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme · Nov 18, 2022

Skybluefaz said:

Succession of tories in the media trotting out the 'its a global issue' line.
Some daft bint actually got called out for it by the BBC, someone will be in trouble for going off message.

chiefdave · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme said:
Succession of tories in the media trotting out the 'its a global issue' line.
Some daft bint actually got called out for it by the BBC, someone will be in trouble for going off message.

This really needs to be challenged more. Its such basic journalism, if its a global issue why is the UK so much worse off than everywhere else.

shmmeee · Nov 18, 2022

clint van damme said:
Succession of tories in the media trotting out the 'its a global issue' line.
Some daft bint actually got called out for it by the BBC, someone will be in trouble for going off message.

Saw that, was hilarious. Then she went “well that’s the past, the projections for the future show us as the best” except as that graph shows: they don’t.

clint van damme · Nov 18, 2022

shmmeee said:
Saw that, was hilarious. Then she went “well that’s the past, the projections for the future show us as the best” except as that graph shows: they don’t.

The brass neck on them is quite incredible

Ian1779 · Nov 18, 2022

He is a bellend I am sorry…

David O'Day · Nov 18, 2022

Ian1779 said:
He is a bellend I am sorry…

View attachment 27364

the never kissed a tory stuff is pretty sad to be fair

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (30 Viewers)

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