Personally, I notice little difference between CCC (Labour) and WCC (Tory). WCC are 'soft' Tory, but still... you'd not really know who was what!I haven’t lived in Coventry for a long time, but does the Labour council there actually do stuff, or is a group of self-interest careerists looking after themselves?
I think he's just being honest and accepting there are issues that need to be faced up to.
It's pointless trying to win elections when your in turmoil Internally, and still living in denial.
There's definitely room for left leaning politics, but maybe not so left as momentum would wish.
imho.
I did enjoy this from Bercow though, deafening silence from that corrupt prick Jenrick at the end. This cheered me up a bit
There's a paradox, which is when a party seems at its strongest, often creates the cracks for weakness. Take Labour - Blair swept all before him by appealing to middle England, but that started the alienation felt by traditional northern Labour heartlands. Fast forward to when Blair was a busted flush, and that alienation is embedded.I think there’s a niche in just piling in on the Labour Party and trying to suggest it isn’t just a personal popularity contest. But like I said, preferring this over substance is why I want to leave the country more as time goes on.
Just to break the tension a bit:
It will require Labour turning half of England, which just seems gone for good. While I hate the SNP, they would disappear in an independent Scotland and it would be run much closer to how I feel it should be. Aside from independence I agree with Scots on a great deal, in England I feel increasingly like an outsider.
Just to break the tension a bit:
There's a paradox, which is when a party seems at its strongest, often creates the cracks for weakness. Take Labour - Blair swept all before him by appealing to middle England, but that started the alienation felt by traditional northern Labour heartlands. Fast forward to when Blair was a busted flush, and that alienation is embedded.
Nearly chocked on my coffee - Bercow lecturing somebody on the need to defend the democratic legislature.
Sunak is too small to be PM. Genuinely. People wouldn't vote for someone who looks like this!
If you genuinely think Jenrick is more right and proper than Bercow then that really does sum up the state of this country and explains why the Tories will be in power for the next however many years.
I'm not convinced I agree with all your reasoning tbh - compared to under the Tories, public services were in rude health! On a purely basic level, where I grew up got its bus service back(!)Blair lost the working classes because he was so desperate to be seen as controlling public finances such that by 2005 when he and Brown first started to flash the cash public services were all too obviously in a state of disrepair. The pair then lurched into a spending spree that didn't look sensible either, and this was then compounded by their misfortune of being at the helm when the global economy crashed.
I'm not sure, however, that this bedded any alienation within voters, simply other than at that time looking for a perceived 'safe pair of hands' to run the economy.
You see, there you go again with your ad hominen arguments.
I mentioned nothing about that insipid, instantly unlikable man Jenrick.
I went from a Labour member chasing Starmer as second preference to not putting an x in any of the 10 possible boxes for Labour yesterday.
Quite simply I'm not going to vote for a party with no clear vision on anything and a man that lied through his teeth to get the job, those 10 pledges were absolutely bullshit.
If the tories can form a broad coalition containing anti-abortionists, some small government big business people, some classical liberals and Mark fucking Francois then Labour should be able to do it based on the main difference being that they all want to invest in and improve the country but some to more extremes than others.
The party is an embarrassment right now and got what it deserved.
Can't see that at all.working class support for Labour under Corbyn was huge
a man that lied through his teeth to get the job, those 10 pledges were absolutely bullshit.
Can't see that at all.
What are you classifying as working class? To me it’s people who are working in more precarious jobs and for lower remuneration and have insecure housing situations. They tend to be under 45 and support labour massively.Can't see that at all.
I class myself as working class, come from parents who didn't own a property and had low paid jobs. Maybe as a home owner I don't fit into your criteria. A few years ago I was working night shifts stacking shelves to help myself be able to study and other personal circumstances. Many of the people in there fucking hated Corbyn. He was seen as unpatriotic, IRA sympathiser etc. He definitely cut through with the youth, singing his name at Glasto and all that stuff proved it. I would describe the working class support as polarised rather than huge.What are you classifying as working class? To me it’s people who are working in more precarious jobs and for lower remuneration and have insecure housing situations. They tend to be under 45 and support labour massively.
No idea if that is true or not but I did hear a polling expert make an interesting point this morning. He reckoned that a decent chunk of Corbyn voters were previously non-voters and their vote hasn't moved to another party, they've gone back to being non-voters.working class support for Labour under Corbyn was huge
Yeah polarised is probably fair. He was most likely the most popular and also the most unpopular in that demographic for decades.I class myself as working class, come from parents who didn't own a property and had low paid jobs. Maybe as a home owner I don't fit into your criteria. A few years ago I was working night shifts stacking shelves to help myself be able to study and other personal circumstances. Many of the people in there fucking hated Corbyn. He was seen as unpatriotic, IRA sympathiser etc. He definitely cut through with the youth, singing his name at Glasto and all that stuff proved it. I would describe the working class support as polarised rather than huge.
I'd argue much of the politics was popular, the man wasn't.but in the demographic that don’t have them, or a pension, his politics were very popular.
There is a huge demographic of people that are not home owners and stuck renting with no prospect of escaping. When Labour came out with a policy of a huge affordable housing program in 2017 it will have resonated massively. That’s how I interpret Liquids point anyway.I class myself as working class, come from parents who didn't own a property and had low paid jobs. Maybe as a home owner I don't fit into your criteria. A few years ago I was working night shifts stacking shelves to help myself be able to study and other personal circumstances. Many of the people in there fucking hated Corbyn. He was seen as unpatriotic, IRA sympathiser etc. He definitely cut through with the youth, singing his name at Glasto and all that stuff proved it. I would describe the working class support as polarised rather than huge.
I'd argue much of the politics was popular, the man wasn't.
The Labour voters that defected never went back though.... possibly because the candidate shoehorned in was an ardent Remainer? Or was the lack of any kind of messaging other than ‘I’m not Corbyn by the way’Labour would have lost Hartlepool in 2019 had the Brexit Party not split the vote. This is not a surprising result in any way.
The Labour voters that defected never went back though.... possibly because the candidate shoehorned in was an ardent Remainer? Or was the lack of any kind of messaging other than ‘I’m not Corbyn by the way’
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