Do you want to discuss boring politics? (41 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Sep 21, 2022

Philosorapter said:
Seems like the banking crisis all over again without any lessons learned.

Not really. The banking crisis was caused by deregulation and greed from within the banking industry. It was a self inflicted crisis on banking that we had to pay price for. If your local chippy shuts down because they can’t afford to buy the potatoes, fish, oil, flour etc as well as turn the fryers on due to outside forces and then sell with an operating profit in a cost of living crisis that means consumer confidence and spending is low your local chippy isn’t causing the problem. We are making it easy for bankers to repeat past mistakes though. Maybe that’s the unlearned lesson you’re talking about, the lesson of not handing bankers the keys to the sweet shop.

Philosoraptor · Sep 21, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Not really. The banking crisis was caused by deregulation and greed from within the banking industry. It was a self inflicted crisis on banking that we had to pay price for. If your local chippy shuts down because they can’t afford to buy the potatoes, fish, oil, flour etc as well as turn the fryers on due to outside forces and then sell with an operating profit in a cost of living crisis that means consumer confidence and spending is low your local chippy isn’t causing the problem. We are making it easy for bankers to repeat past mistakes though. Maybe that’s the unlearned lesson you’re talking about, the lesson of not handing bankers the keys to the sweet shop.

Small business support.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Not really. The banking crisis was caused by deregulation and greed from within the banking industry. It was a self inflicted crisis on banking that we had to pay price for. If your local chippy shuts down because they can’t afford to buy the potatoes, fish, oil, flour etc as well as turn the fryers on due to outside forces and then sell with an operating profit in a cost of living crisis that means consumer confidence and spending is low your local chippy isn’t causing the problem. We are making it easy for bankers to repeat past mistakes though. Maybe that’s the unlearned lesson you’re talking about, the lesson of not handing bankers the keys to the sweet shop.

What’s going on is the old MLK adage

Socialism for the rich, rugid individualism for the poor

Ian1779 · Sep 21, 2022

PVA said:
Kwarteng seemingly off his tits at the funeral.

Can you imagine the general outrage and backlash if a Labour MP was seen doing this?

Wasn’t it previously coined as ‘doing a Gove’?

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But..but...Grendel said it was mad and businesses would never go for it because it would destroy productivity and harm the economy.

Surely he can't be wrong again?

Oh yes a survey of a tiny few companies and its a policy that is happening - really going to work in manufacturing sectors isn't it with JIT delivery, education, transport, retail etc. Lets see how many companies "go for it" shall we

fernandopartridge · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Oh yes a survey of a tiny few companies and its a policy that is happening - really going to work in manufacturing sectors isn't it with JIT delivery, education, transport, retail etc. Lets see how many companies "go for it" shall we

I don't think a 4 day week necessarily means businesses are all closed down for a day a week, it means that employees work for 4 days rather than 5 and this will spread across a week

duffer · Sep 21, 2022

Ian1779 said:
Wasn’t it previously coined as ‘doing a Gove’?

This can't be right. A leader of the sole party of true patriotism, law and order, and common decency, obviously off his tits at the Queen's funeral? Surely some mistake.

Sky Blue Pete · Sep 21, 2022

duffer said:
This can't be right. A leader of the sole party of true patriotism, law and order, and common decency, obviously off his tits at the Queen's funeral? Surely some mistake.

Looks very strange

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
I don't think a 4 day week necessarily means businesses are all closed down for a day a week, it means that employees work for 4 days rather than 5 and this will spread across a week

Which is impossible for most SME's and other organisations without increasing staff - which in turn increases overheads.

It would be interesting to see if the people actually work the same number of hours but across 4 days.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2022

PVA said:
Kwarteng seemingly off his tits at the funeral.

Can you imagine the general outrage and backlash if a Labour MP was seen doing this?

Is that the Prime Minister’s hair going up and down by his legs?

skybluetony176 · Sep 21, 2022

I see a Tory MP admitted on News Night last night that dropping the cap on bankers bonuses is to try and win back business that left the UK for the EU because of Brexit. Madness. Sold as a brexit bonus not a desperate response to the damage done by brexit.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 21, 2022

Philosorapter said:
UK 'has particularly extreme form of capitalism'

We urgently need to rethink the role of business in society, says the author of a new report.

www.bbc.co.uk

Funny, as I thought the authorities told us we're run by woke lefties and liberals.

But as I said earlier, if we give them even a modicum of help it's nowhere near true capitalism at all. If it happened it'd be a massive shock to the system for those that swear by it.

fernandopartridge · Sep 21, 2022

Completely bust, devoid of any ideas of how to stimulate economy. Prefer mass poverty and reduced demand to control inflation.

UK households face £3bn hit if Bank goes ahead with 0.75-points rate rise | Bank of England | The Guardian

chiefdave · Sep 21, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
Completely bust, devoid of any ideas of how to stimulate economy. Prefer mass poverty and reduced demand to control inflation.

UK households face £3bn hit if Bank goes ahead with 0.75-points rate rise | Bank of England | The Guardian

I don't understand how taking money out of peoples pockets when they're struggling to pay for the basics like heat and food is going to help?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Oh yes a survey of a tiny few companies and its a policy that is happening - really going to work in manufacturing sectors isn't it with JIT delivery, education, transport, retail etc. Lets see how many companies "go for it" shall we

Or...they employ more workers to keep the place open every day they want to be open. I thought you wanted more jobs?

A lot of places still close for the weekend. Why is people having two days not working a week fine but three an absolute catastrophe for the economy?

Would you rather an employ doing 25 hours a week but fully focused on the job or doing 35 hour and spends most it not giving a shit?

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Or...they employ more workers to keep the place open every day they want to be open. I thought you wanted more jobs?

A lot of places still close for the weekend. Why is people having two days not working a week fine but three an absolute catastrophe for the economy?

Would you rather an employ doing 25 hours a week but fully focused on the job or doing 35 hour and spends most it not giving a shit?

Spoke like someone who clearly has never run anything in his life

chiefdave · Sep 21, 2022

Of course its not just small companies that have trialled a 4 day week. I don't think anyone is suggesting it will work for every single company or we can switch over instantly but it does seem the most, if not all, trials have similar results.

Microsoft tested out a four-day work week in its Japan offices and found as a result employees were not only happier – but significantly more productive.

For the month of August, Microsoft Japan experimented with a new project called Work-Life Choice Challenge Summer 2019, giving its entire 2,300-person workforce five Fridays off in a row without decreasing pay.

The shortened weeks led to more efficient meetings, happier workers and boosted productivity by a staggering 40%, the company concluded at the end of the trial. As part of the program, the company had also planned to subsidize family vacations for employees up to ¥100,000 or $920.

“Work a short time, rest well and learn a lot,” Microsoft Japan president and CEO Takuya Hirano said in a statement to Microsoft Japan’s website. “I want employees to think about and experience how they can achieve the same results with 20% less working time.”

In addition to the increased productivity, employees took 25% less time off during the trial and electricity use was down 23% in the office with the additional day off per week. Employees printed 59% fewer pages of paper during the trial. The vast majority of employees – 92% – said they liked the shorter week.

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

chiefdave said:
Of course its not just small companies that have trialled a 4 day week. I don't think anyone is suggesting it will work for every single company or we can switch over instantly but it does seem the most, if not all, trials have similar results.

Some companies in Japan are reducing pay by 20% and allowing employees to take other jobs who sign up to a 4 day week - ok with that?

chiefdave · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Some companies in Japan are reducing pay by 20% and allowing employees to take other jobs who sign up to a 4 day week - ok with that?

Would certainly be interested to see if those companies have the same productivity increase as those moving to a 4 day week with no pay decrease. Have you got a link to the data?

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

chiefdave said:
Would certainly be interested to see if those companies have the same productivity increase as those moving to a 4 day week with no pay decrease. Have you got a link to the data?

Well your link shows no actual data

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Spoke like someone who clearly has never run anything in his life

I take it you oppose weekends?

chiefdave · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Well your link shows no actual data

I thought quoting a news article would be preferable to posting the source data but here it is

「週勤 4 日＆週休 3 日」を柱とする自社実践プロジェクト「ワークライフチョイスチャレンジ 2019 夏」の効果測定結果を公開 - News Center Japan

日本マイクロソフトでは、働き方改革（ワークスタイルイノベーション）の自社実践プロジェクトとして、本年夏に「週勤 4 日＆週休 3 日」トライアルを軸とした「ワークライフチョイスチャレンジ 2019 夏」を実施しました。本日、その効果測定の分析結果と、今後の展開を公開しましたのでご紹介します。

news.microsoft.com

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

chiefdave said:
I thought quoting a news article would be preferable to posting the source data but here it is

「週勤 4 日＆週休 3 日」を柱とする自社実践プロジェクト「ワークライフチョイスチャレンジ 2019 夏」の効果測定結果を公開 - News Center Japan

日本マイクロソフトでは、働き方改革（ワークスタイルイノベーション）の自社実践プロジェクトとして、本年夏に「週勤 4 日＆週休 3 日」トライアルを軸とした「ワークライフチョイスチャレンジ 2019 夏」を実施しました。本日、その効果測定の分析結果と、今後の展開を公開しましたのでご紹介します。

news.microsoft.com

what about the others that reduce lay Dave are you ok with that?

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I take it you oppose weekends?

well if you want every shop and hospital to close I guess so

chiefdave · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
what about the others that reduce lay Dave are you ok with that?

I'd like to see the details and if they are seeing similar increases in productivity

skybluetony176 · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Some companies in Japan are reducing pay by 20% and allowing employees to take other jobs who sign up to a 4 day week - ok with that?

Japan infamously has some of the most demanding working hours in the world. It drives the suicide rate so much that they’ve invented a new word for suicide brought on from overworking, karoshi.

You have literally (no doubt deliberately) picked the worst possible country to draw comparisons too. If you wanted to draw a genuine comparison you should look a countries with similar cultures, try Denmark or another Scandinavian country.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Spoke like someone who clearly has never run anything in his life

So are you telling me big companies would go to the wall if they had to employ more people to cover the extra days?

Or are you once again mistaking owners wanting excessive returns for a business being unable to function?

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

chiefdave said:
I'd like to see the details and if they are seeing similar increases in productivity

I think probably your main interest is working less for the same money

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So are you telling me big companies would go to the wall if they had to employ more people to cover the extra days?

Or are you once again mistaking owners wanting excessive returns for a business being unable to function?

Most companies aren’t big and can you tell me where these people are actually coming from to work? Are we going to have a mass reproduction programme?

What do you actually do for a living?

CCFCSteve · Sep 21, 2022

chiefdave said:
I don't understand how taking money out of peoples pockets when they're struggling to pay for the basics like heat and food is going to help?

At the moment inflation is so far above interest rates people can borrow 100000 to buy an asset at say 3% so you’d pay 103,000 back next year and the assets worth 110000 due to 10% inflation. That encourages more borrowing/spending ….thereby pushing up prices and maintaining inflation.

What’s more of an issue though is if BoE doesn’t raise rates the pound will weaken against the dollar as the fed is raising rates aggressively to calm their inflation. Their inflation is more demand driven, than energy driven like ours (from ridiculous Covid cheques paid out by Trump and Biden, money printing etc this has been exacerbated by supply chain issues). Weaker pound means imports, like oil, become more expensive, again, pushing up inflation

The last thing BoE and ECB want is raising interest rates into recession but their hands are tied. Ultimately inflation hurts the poorest more than interest rate rises

Ian1779 · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
I think probably your main interest is working less for the same money

But with increased productivity obviously… thought you’d be all over that

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

Ian1779 said:
But with increased productivity obviously… thought you’d be all over that

In sure if a graph showing extra productivity is achieved by working an extra day or a Sunday in lieu the same people would agree to do it as clearly the company that feeds these people comes first

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
In sure if a graph showing extra productivity is achieved by working an extra day or a Sunday in lieu the same people would agree to do it as clearly the company that feeds these people comes first

Think the evidence shows that counter productivity kicks in after a maximum of 55 hours

Grendel · Sep 21, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Think the evidence shows that counter productivity kicks in after a maximum of 55 hours

Im sure it does

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2022

Grendel said:
Im sure it does

The Productivity of Working Hours (iza.org)

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (41 Viewers)

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