Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
There was though. I know people in security and warehouse work who saw pay and working conditions deteriorate because of workers from EE. And we have some of the worst productivity around, we brought back hand car washes FFS! Not only were we not automating, we were deautomating!

For many years now most of the security workers I’ve seen are African, not sure how that’s EU freedom of movement issues. I worked in warehouses for a couple of years between a career change when there was very little EU workers, my brother got me the job and he’s worked there pretty much his whole working life and the wage rises have been linear the who time as a percentage linked to inflation (not sure if that will happen next year) it didn’t change when they started employing more EU workers so I don’t share that experience. The only real reason they have so many EU workers now than they used to have is because they don’t tend to have the need to sack EU workers due to attitude/productivity.

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
She’s off to the HoL isn’t she?

Allegedly Boris is odds on to lose his marginal seat at the next GE so he’s being moved to Dorries safe seat at the next GE hence Dorries is going to the HoL’s.

(Edit) although that wouldn’t stop her being in the government, Lord Frost for example.

shmmeee · Sep 6, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
For many years now most of the security workers I’ve seen are African, not sure how that’s EU freedom of movement issues. I worked in warehouses for a couple of years between a career change when there was very little EU workers, my brother got me the job and he’s worked there pretty much his whole working life and the wage rises have been linear the who time as a percentage linked to inflation (not sure if that will happen next year) it didn’t change when they started employing more EU workers so I don’t share that experience. The only real reason they have so many EU workers now than they used to have is because they don’t tend to have the need to sack EU workers due to attitude/productivity.

It’s quite a hostile environment to go into for some people though. I have friends who have been the only English speaker on their shift and that’s understandably disconcerting. I’m generally pro immigration but pretending there are no issues whatsoever isn’t credible. If you’re going to have large amounts of people coming in IMO you’ve got a responsibility to make sure that they’re well integrated and following the law.

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2022

Economist Richard Murphy just on the radio saying that Liz Truss’ energy plans are going to drive inflation because it protects energy companies exceptional profits with the tax coffers picking up the cost. Predicting that the Bank of England could raise interest rates as high as 4% driving average mortgage repayments up £600 a year.

David O'Day · Sep 6, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Allegedly Boris is odds on to lose his marginal seat at the next GE so he’s being moved to Dorries safe seat at the next GE hence Dorries is going to the HoL’s.

(Edit) although that wouldn’t stop her being in the government, Lord Frost for example.

it break convention if a sos was not a member of the commons, remember the uproar when amos was given international development by blair

frost attended cabinet but wasn't a sos

Philosoraptor · Sep 6, 2022

I see the completely forgettable ... Hold on, I forgot her name again.

Found her!

Googled Coventry North-East.

Apparently, people have been trying to remove her as their MP.

About time if you ask me.

Wonder if the dynamics in Coventry North East has changed.

If so, I guess we will be seeing an awful lot of new councillors as well.

Coventry North East MP to stand down at next election

Colleen Fletcher says it is time to move on and pursue some new challenges.

www.bbc.co.uk

CCFCSteve · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
I dunno the Europeans I’ve talked to seemed to take Brexit as a sign not to bother going. Easier to go to an international city where English is spoken anyway then go through the rigmarole of a visa app I guess.

That’s a real shame if it’s because they don’t think they’re wanted. They’re wanted exactly the same as anyone else in the world, there just isn’t preferential treatment any more. If it’s because they can’t be bothered to apply for visa etc that’s understandable. I presume a lot will depend on how their own economy is performing and what jobs are available here compared to EU countries

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
That’s a real shame if it’s because they don’t think they’re wanted. They’re wanted exactly the same as anyone else in the world, there just isn’t preferential treatment any more. If it’s because they can’t be bothered to apply for visa etc that’s understandable. I presume a lot will depend on how their own economy is performing and what jobs are available here compared to EU countries

Well they’re applying for visas elsewhere - when you’ve got the new PM going on about the ‘jury being out’ on one of the countries oldest allies, it says everything.

shmmeee · Sep 6, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
That’s a real shame if it’s because they don’t think they’re wanted. They’re wanted exactly the same as anyone else in the world, there just isn’t preferential treatment any more. If it’s because they can’t be bothered to apply for visa etc that’s understandable. I presume a lot will depend on how their own economy is performing and what jobs are available here compared to EU countries

I think there’s been a lot of confusion. My missus has had British people asking when she’s leaving even though she’s got right to remain. I’m completely open to the fact my sample might be poor but chatting to a few of her friends and family they seemed to think we were basically shutting out self off from the world.

I think the visa thing is more likely. Even a tiny hassle loses out to no hassle at all.

shmmeee · Sep 6, 2022

Philosorapter said:
I see the completely forgettable ... Hold on, I forgot her name again.

Found her!

Googled Coventry North-East.

Apparently, people have been trying to remove her as their MP.

About time if you ask me.

Wonder if the dynamics in Coventry North East has changed.

If so, I guess we will be seeing an awful lot of new councillors as well.

Coventry North East MP to stand down at next election

Colleen Fletcher says it is time to move on and pursue some new challenges.

www.bbc.co.uk

Has she ever done anything?

I follow every Labour MP on Twitter and don’t think I’ve ever seen her post (the other two can’t shut up). Such a weird nothing MP.

I see Sultana is up for reselection. Should be interesting.

CCFCSteve · Sep 6, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Economist Richard Murphy just on the radio saying that Liz Truss’ energy plans are going to drive inflation because it protects energy companies exceptional profits with the tax coffers picking up the cost. Predicting that the Bank of England could raise interest rates as high as 4% driving average mortgage repayments up £600 a year.

One of the energy company execs proposed the best solution. Government provides a pot of cash (say £100bn) which it loans to energy companies to supply at current prices. Basically the difference between current prices and wholesale cost they borrow from government and we all pay it back with higher bills over say 20 years.

This fixes prices but still encourages people to reduce usage so is better environmentally. It should also help with supply as people know they’re ultimately paying so will hopefully reduce their usage thereby also reducing overall demand/wholesale cost….making it cheaper for everyone. If the government is picking up the tab the incentive to minimise usage reduces and we’re also picking up the tab for people that don’t need help

The government can then focus direct assistance on those that need it most

shmmeee · Sep 6, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
One of the energy company execs proposed the best solution. Government provides a pot of cash (say £100bn) which it loans to energy companies to supply at current prices. Basically the difference between current prices and wholesale cost they borrow from government and we all pay it back with higher bills over say 20 years.

This fixed prices but still encourages people to reduce usage so is better environmentally. It should also help with supply as people know they’re ultimately paying so will hopefully reduce their usage thereby also reducing overall demand/wholesale cost….making it cheaper for everyone. If the government is picking up the tab the incentive to minimise usage reduces and we’re also picking up the tab for people that don’t need help

The government can then focus direct assistance on those that need it most

Surely everyone will be paying that back over 20 years regardless of usage or whatever?

Starts to feel like Rishi’s forced loan idea but on a bigger scale.

Philosoraptor · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
Has she ever done anything?

I follow every Labour MP on Twitter and don’t think I’ve ever seen her post (the other two can’t shut up). Such a weird nothing MP.

I see Sultana is up for reselection. Should be interesting.

Finally, found something I agree with you on for both MPs.

Ian1779 · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
Has she ever done anything?

I follow every Labour MP on Twitter and don’t think I’ve ever seen her post (the other two can’t shut up). Such a weird nothing MP.

I see Sultana is up for reselection. Should be interesting.

At least she is out and about in her constituency - I have seen Jesus more times than Peter Bone.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
Has she ever done anything?

I follow every Labour MP on Twitter and don’t think I’ve ever seen her post (the other two can’t shut up). Such a weird nothing MP.

I see Sultana is up for reselection. Should be interesting.

Fletcher's my MP. She does at least answer my very boring emails

SBT · Sep 6, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Of course oversupply of cheap labour will suppress wages, as well as stifling productivity. If labour is less cheap and plentiful, companies ordinarily invest more in processes and work practices.

Anyway, back to politics…

I know this is the conventional wisdom/economic orthodoxy, but there’s research to show that the relationship between labour supply and wage growth (or lack of) is rarely that straightforward.

Migration and wages after Covid and Brexit - UK in a changing Europe

Jonathan Portes reflects on and assesses recent headlines on wages, migration and labour shortages in the UK hospitality and retail sectors.

ukandeu.ac.uk

Chartbook #45: Of Scarface & the Nobel - The Double Life of Mariel

or ... the history of a natural experiment.

adamtooze.substack.com

shmmeee · Sep 6, 2022

Deleted member 5849 said:
Fletcher's my MP. She does at least answer my very boring emails

TBH with the state of the talent pool in the party is support almost anyone getting replaced in the hope that we get someone decent in. More hope than expectation though.

fernandopartridge · Sep 6, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Without getting into the whole Brexit debate again ! you can have high controlled immigration ie filling up the holes you have in the economy/workforce and also even low uncontrolled immigration ie nobody wanting to come here to work even though the doors are open to all.

If you think the country can operate effectively with say 200k net migration per year surely you’d want that to be filled with say nurses or other sectors where there’s shortages, rather than maybe a load of accountants or taxi drivers coming over from the EU? Yes, they get jobs and work but then if there’s an over supply, wages are suppressed. It’s just supply and demand

I’ve always thought anyone coming to work here, apart from maybe EU under 25s, should operate on the same points system depending on the needs of the country and the individuals skillsets, wherever they come from in the world

Whether Tory ideology allows the new found ‘controls’ to operate effectively remains to be seen.

Surely in your world of believing public spending is paid for by taxation, where there is an increased number of pensioners drawing a pension from the state you need to replace them with workers paying in regardless of what they do?

CCFCSteve · Sep 6, 2022

SBT said:
I know this is the conventional wisdom/economic orthodoxy, but there’s research to show that the relationship between labour supply and wage growth (or lack of) is rarely that straightforward.

Migration and wages after Covid and Brexit - UK in a changing Europe

Jonathan Portes reflects on and assesses recent headlines on wages, migration and labour shortages in the UK hospitality and retail sectors.

ukandeu.ac.uk

Chartbook #45: Of Scarface & the Nobel - The Double Life of Mariel

or ... the history of a natural experiment.

adamtooze.substack.com

Agreed. It’s a complex area. Will probably vary depending on industries, available local labour supply, what company can afford to pay for role etc etc

Same as impact on public services, housing etc. none of it is black or white

CCFCSteve · Sep 6, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
Surely in your world of believing public spending is paid for by taxation, where there is an increased number of pensioners drawing a pension from the state you need to replace them with workers paying in regardless of what they do?

100%. If you’ve read back through my posts I’m all for immigration but have said this is best to done in a controlled way focussed on what the economy/UK needs. I don’t care where migrants come from, others appear to

Maybe now is not the best time to discuss public spending/borrowing theories. The western world has printed way too much money and inflations going through the roof. There’s talk of whether the markets will be willing to fund further ‘excessive’ government borrowing without cost of borrowing increasing significantly. If they won’t and BoE prints more, expect pound to drop even lower, which drives up cost of imports inc gas/energy (usually paid in dollars) and in turn inflation as well as continuing to increase physical asset inflation (which benefits the richest and hurts the poorest).

fernandopartridge · Sep 6, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
100%. If you’ve read back through my posts I’m all for immigration but have said this is best to done in a controlled way focussed on what the economy/UK needs. I don’t care where migrants come from, others appear to

Maybe now is not the best time to discuss public spending/borrowing theories. The western world has printed way too much money and inflations going through the roof. There’s talk of whether the markets will be willing to fund further ‘excessive’ government borrowing without cost of borrowing increasing significantly. If they won’t and BoE prints more, expect pound to drop even lower and asset inflation to increase (which benefits the richest and hurts the poorest).

Your second paragraph is utter drivel, so yes, let's not bother

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
TBH with the state of the talent pool in the party is support almost anyone getting replaced in the hope that we get someone decent in. More hope than expectation though.

She also kept her quite large majority while the other two new ones were doing their best to lose their's.

CCFCSteve · Sep 6, 2022

shmmeee said:
Surely everyone will be paying that back over 20 years regardless of usage or whatever?

Starts to feel like Rishi’s forced loan idea but on a bigger scale.

Yeah, don’t know what repayment proposal was, if it’s lumped on as an additional standing charge, like the cost of failed energy companies, that would be unfair. There would need to be a mechanism to compensate/support lowest incomes and usage…god knows how but sure it’s possible

I just heard that this actually might be the proposal. Will await the details but probably best of a bad bunch of options, if it’s combined with additional direct assistance for poorest families

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2022

The more I hear about this proposed help for energy plan the more I’m convinced she’s taken this Thatcher tribute act too seriously. She seems to be intent on kicking off with her poll tax moment.

I can see there being a mass bill payment strike yet. It needs something big to happen before she’ll do the right thing.

clint van damme · Sep 6, 2022

Looks like the elusive magic money tree has flowered again, convenient that

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2022

clint van damme said:
Looks like the elusive magic money tree has flowered again, convenient that

Convenient for the energy companies

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 6, 2022

BBC defending her against a Lib Dem's criticism by saying 'come on, you're not being fair'. 12 years in charge and always being let off the hook while anyone else has to observe far higher standards.

Ian1779 · Sep 6, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Convenient for the energy companies

So is it going to be a loan and we have to pay it back?

duffer · Sep 6, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, don’t know what repayment proposal was, if it’s lumped on as an additional standing charge, like the cost of failed energy companies, that would be unfair. There would need to be a mechanism to compensate/support lowest incomes and usage…god knows how but sure it’s possible

I just heard that this actually might be the proposal. Will await the details but probably best of a bad bunch of options, if it’s combined with additional direct assistance for poorest families

I'm pretty sure there are better options. I'd start with ones that don't involve loaning private companies public money so that they can continue to make huge profits in a crisis.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 6, 2022

The horror. THE HORROR.

Ian1779 · Sep 6, 2022

So with a reported cost in excess of £100bn are we still pretending nationalisation is a worse idea….

fernandopartridge · Sep 6, 2022

Ian1779 said:
So with a reported cost in excess of £100bn are we still pretending nationalisation is a worse idea….

I know, the level of politics coverage by that useless 4th estate doesn't help. Having said all that if you're going give the public a long term energy mortgage give half of it to them to invest in reducing the need for energy.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

shmmeee · Sep 6, 2022

Ian1779 said:
So with a reported cost in excess of £100bn are we still pretending nationalisation is a worse idea….

Or even, you know, paying for insulation.

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2022

Ian1779 said:
So with a reported cost in excess of £100bn are we still pretending nationalisation is a worse idea….

France is buying the remaining shares in EDF for €9.7B. On that Basis the French government could have brought EDF twice if they didn’t have any shares in it in the first place for that £100B. To say we’re being taken for mugs is an understatement.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

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