There’s no vitriol at all - you just think Starmer is beyond any kind of scrutiny that’s all.
To get the rid of the Tories you need a concerted and combined effort…something lost on Starmer strategists.
You are doing it again - nothing he said on that interview was Pro-Russian. It’s just nonsense hyperboleNot at all. I don't think Starmer is perfect, far from it. Of course he deserves scrutiny. And I could probably level the same accusation at you with regards to Corbyn!
I just don't understand how pro-Russia comments are perfectly acceptable, yet an inflection when saying the word Coventry is the most henous thing ever!
I don’t disagree with any of that at all.
Right now I think Labour is the best chance of getting that, or as close to it. Others don’t, that’s fine. But the vitriol from some people on the so called same team is pathetic.
You are doing it again - nothing he said on that interview was Pro-Russian. It’s just nonsense hyperbole
I just want Starmer to be bold and ambitious instead of always going for the 4-D chess approach of avoiding comment on anything and abstaining from no brainer votes. In other words, to be a leader.
You’re making the assumption that Starmer needs to just show up and he’s in power. Come election time he will need campaigners on the ground, and people to vote for him - he needs to stop ostracising an entire voting bloc.I get that, and it is frustrating sometimes.
But he's doing what needs to be done to get in power. Playing the game or whatever you want to call it.
I get that, and it is frustrating sometimes.
But he's doing what needs to be done to get in power. Playing the game or whatever you want to call it.
Or to put it more succinctly:
So not giving his opinion on anything is what gets him in power? Doesn’t that lead to the familiar critique of ‘we don’t know what Labour stand for’?
Lol Tony Robinson using that two faced wanker is really helping your cause
He gave his life in WW1 have more respect
Well it's got him a 14 point lead in the polls so whether you like it or not it's working at the moment.
Will he have to change and adapt? Most probably yes.
It’s a 14 point lead borne out of Tory voters staying at home. The real lead would probably see Labour needing another partner to form governmentWell it's got him a 14 point lead in the polls so whether you like it or not it's working at the moment.
Will he have to change and adapt? Most probably yes.
Well it's got him a 14 point lead in the polls so whether you like it or not it's working at the moment.
Will he have to change and adapt? Most probably yes.
It’s a 14 point lead borne out of Tory voters staying at home. The real lead would probably see Labour needing another partner to form government
Game over then - oh wait a minute
Guardian/ICM poll: Labour lead over Tories widens to eight points
Ed Miliband also outperforms David Cameron on several personal scores – but not on question of who makes best PMamp.theguardian.com
Please learn to read.
You’re sounding a bit cultist mate…. It’s just a debate.This is pitiful.
'Starmer is shit!'
'But he's got a 14 point lead'
'Yeah well... it's not a real 14 point lead!'
You can crow about people not wanting to give Starmer any scrutiny, well plenty also massively over-scrutinise him to the point they can't say anything positive about him (because no matter what you say a 14 point lead is a positive).
Well you said he has to adapt. even though you said what he’s doing is working - so that’s odd.
The only thing you can say about him is he has nice hair
As a leader he’s neck and neck with Sunak and marginally ahead of truss whose gaining ground and on what he stands for well behind
Cameron as a leader was always ahead of Miliband so the polls were meaningless
Starmer is a dead duck. You’ve even said he’s a good speaker! He’s about as inspiring as a plate of cold baked beans
You’re sounding a bit cultist mate…. It’s just a debate.
He is obsessed with him
You've made far more posts about Starmer than I have. So what does that say about you?
Have I? What’s the tally?
Well you've made more posts about Starmer since April of this year than I have in the last 2 years.
And that's not including your oh so hilarious nicknames for like Sir Beer Korma.
Let’s break it down then.This is pitiful.
'Starmer is shit!'
'But he's got a 14 point lead'
'Yeah well... it's not a real 14 point lead!'
You can crow about people not wanting to give Starmer any scrutiny, well plenty also massively over-scrutinise him to the point they can't say anything positive about him (because no matter what you say a 14 point lead is a positive).
Let’s break it down then.
I do think he’s shit for a few reasons. Firstly he has no respect for my profession in terms of how he viewed us during Cov-ID and how he doesn’t actually actually support us having an appropriate pay rise. Secondly his one job was to take a good policy platform from 2017 without the shackles of Brexit and just give it that electability edge which he has not done. Thirdly he ran as a unity candidate on 10 pledges that he has reneged on since gaining power. As a member he was my 2nd prefernce in the leadership election. I don’t even entirely blame him but his advisers are so fucking useless it’s beyond words.
Then let’s look at the ‘14 point lead’ you quoted - it’s not like it’s an average and I merely pointed out that when you dig below the ‘headline data’ there is a narrative that needs to be understood. It’s not a criticism of him is it but better to be aware than live in some kind of delusion that he’s waltzing into No.10 like Blair in 1997.
I'm not having a go at you for thinking he's shit.
If you think he's shit that's absolutely fine and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion. You think he's shit, I think Corbyn is shit. That's fine.
Like it or not, he's Labour leader right now, and my issue is that there are two options - a Tory government or a Labour government. I would rather focus efforts on making sure the former doesn't happen and THEN we can look at moulding the Labour party into something we'd all like it to be, because it is far from perfect right now. Rather than this in-fighting amongst Labour which could lead to another Tory victory.
What would you like the Labour Party to be?
Yes fine - it’s not us that need to be convinced though necessarily.I'm not having a go at you for thinking he's shit.
If you think he's shit that's absolutely fine and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion. You think he's shit, I think Corbyn is shit. That's fine.
Like it or not, he's Labour leader right now, and my issue is that there are two options - a Tory government or a Labour government. I would rather focus efforts on making sure the former doesn't happen and THEN we can look at moulding the Labour party into something we'd all like it to be, because it is far from perfect right now. Rather than this in-fighting amongst Labour which could lead to another Tory victory.
Yes fine - it’s not us that need to be convicted though necessarily.
Labour’s conduct during the industrial action so far will have lost them voters - the leaderships idea that ‘governments in waiting don’t do this’ is absurd… it’s literally what the Party was created from.
That’s exactly the point.
You don’t have to like Starmer at all. You just need to look at it and realise there are two options right now (and for the foreseeable): a Tory government or a Labour government. Which is likely to be better? No matter your thoughts on Starmer it’s clear to anyone (other than Tory headbangers) that a Labour government would be better for all of us than a Tory government. Maybe not better by as much as you’d like, and that’s fine, but it’d still be better.
So vote Labour, get a Labour government in, and then work on getting the Labour party more aligned to your beliefs rather than just bending over and taking a Tory government time after time because the current version of Labour isn’t exactly how you want it.
Don't lecture Ian or me, I've never voted for anybody other than Labour unlike you
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